Muslim Women's condition

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

i always view it in this manner. That the door was left to acknowledge exactly what is NOT acceptable. Dont you think that by making it clear that no form of indecent voilence even in the worst case scenario (adultery and cheating, which usually give rise to crime of passion) is acceptable the honour killing mentality should be totally eradicated. Alas!

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Re: Muslim Women's condition

Croquet
brilliant posts as always ....

43

If quran is very clear about alcohol, premarital sex etc then why play with word when it comes dealing with a disobedient wife. Moreover where is the verse that states how to deal with disobedient husband?
Thing is, a jerk who abuses his wife mentally or physically is not concerne with religious aspect of it but quran doesn't help to stop this either. He may very well quote quranic verse to shut every one up!

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^i wouldnt agree with you there. i think quran is exceedingly clear about what you can or cant do. for most part of the world history and present, it has been a patriarchal society. I think Quran e pak acknowledges that, and i would also think that to set the men a limit is a way of telling them that there are boundaries that they need to adhere to in any situation.
but as you said mostly those who are intent on abuse will hardly consult quran and then too will freely distort the limits set by it. i dont think that abuse of law is reflection on the law.

45

I've seen people declaring alcohol and other crimes halal, I think same situation might be in this case.

If there's no verse about dealing with a disobedient husband what does this mean?

It means either the wife can do the same to him or may be even more so.

Of course when we are unaware and ignorant of what Quran and hadith state about domestic violence then whatever interpretation the wife beater gives us we'd listen and shut up and thus won't be able to argue.

46

I think it's still clear from the Qur'an that it's forbidden to beat your wife.

I don't know the exact verses by heart, but it does say clearly that a husband should treat his wife with love, honesty and respect. So if a husband would do that, he wouldn't even think about beating his wife.

Also, isn't each Muslim supposed to be treating other people honestly and kindly? That also would mean not beating your wife.

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I think it has to do more with our culture....Its happnes more in our desi culture, anyway in last 10 years i have seen it happening less often.

48

When it comes to Quran and hadees please avoid to use your guess or your memory , quote the verse or the book of hadees and hadees number.
By relying on our memory is not a good idea in this case.
You can surely express your personal opinion on any subject, there is not harm in it .

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Re: Muslim Women's condition

^we all know there's only one ayah we are talking about in this thread so i don't think you need to quote it again and again.

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Re: Muslim Women's condition

People are lying if they claim so and so religion strictly forbids crime against women.. Every religion has this provision where in one or another form women are declared subserveint to men.. If I quote all of the tenetes here I wud either be adjudged hate-monger or banned. So If you really want to discuss this let us meet offline.

Fact is I have seen people debating what kind of beating holy book allows.. Very idea that beating of women is being debated on the basis of scripture tells me there is something fundamentally wrong with the system.

Now why muslims get singled ut for this. Well look around every couple of months even in this free society of north america you will witness some utetrly disgusting crime in name fo islam against woemn by their own relatives and these news add to the already vitiated atmosphere.
Last month in canada news of an Afghani father killing his three daughters along with their mother was all over the news..

I remember watching a debate on Egyptian TV where few Ulemahs and few women;s rights activist were debating if beating is allowed and if yes then what kind of beatig is allowed.
As expected Ulemah were admant on how it is allowed and errign womne need to be disciplined. Anchor fo the sho asks shold women be allowed to beat erring ( adulterous particualry) men in order to discipline them.> ulemah saheb's answer was no because let us say woman comes hoem finds her husband in bed of another woman but that another woman could be his other wife abotu which his first wife might have no information.. Obviously maulavi saheb was spewign nonsense because if I am nto mistaken you can;t marry again unless informign your first wife..

but my point is very fact that this issue gets debated along with mdoe of beating tells me there is some serious problem here..

never saw any christian priest or hindu/buddhist/sikh scholar debating whether beating of erring woman is allowed.. Does that mean those chirstian/sikh/hindu males do nto beat their wives noway they most certainly do but they can't hide behind scripture for sure ..

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Re: Muslim Women's condition

^curry sahab, please do not expose your ignorance

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Here now you have done the same thing which you accused others of doing. Interpretion of quran as suited. Well atleast they have some verse to go by whereas you are shooting arrows in the drak.
You can twist and turn it however you like but fact remain the same; quran **permits **husbands to strike their disobedient wives as a last resort.

Spoon Culture and Copy Cats
53

It's my ignorance or your ostritch mentality sir..

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Re: Muslim Women's condition

del

Post a pic of what a guppy may look like
55

Gina

Yes but without violence. "daraba" means strike without any violence and this is in the ahadith and last sermon of the Prophet(SAW).

I don't know why are you trying to make me look like an idiot but you're ending up agreeing with me.

56

I don't understand you, I think no one does.

57

As always you have missed the point but there is no use discussing anything further because you are back to your old tricks.

58

Peace bebo

Here is a way to make it seem more understandable to you. A looming threat, a means to vent without executing any harsh action. An action without force. To strike is not the same as to beat. To strike one can also do so with a parable ... In the Qur'an daraba is used for parables as well. We don't beat a parable but we do strike them. Also, to strike as in striking chances ... One, two three you are out ... A similar concept ... strike is to warn that next time consequences will be legal separation.

To represent the injustice caused to the man a tap is a symbolic gesture not a violent one to the woman. This can only be done when a woman is unchaste ... so how can this promote domestic violence when people are harmed for much less without this ethos in place?

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60

Definitely your ignorance!

Stone The Woman!

"If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;" (Deuteronomy 22:22)

"Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you." (Deuteronomy 22:24)

Silence The Woman!

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

Wives, Submit Yourselves!
"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

These words of Paul describe another instance for the calling of the submission of women to their husbands. Note that the all inclusive "everything" could allow husbands to submit their wives to anything, including rape, beatings, slavery, etc.

(See also I Cor. 11:3-12, I Cor. 14:34-36, I Timothy 2:8-15, I Peter 3:1-7, Col. 3:18-19.)

Women Shall Not Speak
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)

Cut Off Her Hand!
"When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her." (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)

Kill The Witches!
"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Whoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death. He that sacrificeth unto any god, save to the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed." (Exodus 22:18-20)
These verses attest to the power of belief as they led to the slaughter of thousands of defenseless people throughout Europe and the rest of the world.

Understand that these verses not only authorize the executions but they explicitly command them.

Verse 18 justified the burning of women in Europe judged as witches. In early America, the Salem witch trials resulted in the deaths of women and men.

Rip Up Pregnant Women
"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." (Hosea 13:16)

Throughout the Bible, God smites those who do not believe in him or those who do not follow his commands. Here we have the grotesque description of infants dashed to pieces and pregnant women ripped up. Whatever rebellious nature an infant's father or mother may have had, it bears no justice to an innocent child or to an unborn fetus who could not possibly have rebelled against God, much less understood him.
Anyone who claims to love such a God, must accept infanticide as one of God's ugly revenges. (See also Psalms 137:9)

*This is an incomplete list.
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And don't forget the Sati in hinduism and caste sytem, multiple husbands, killing for dowry, cursed widow or divorced woman.!!

Let us know if you need more info. :-)

**
Islam** does not even come close to what is being discussed here.