[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Axiom: *
**Ahizya was 22 years old when it began to rain.
Ahizya ws 42 years old when it began to rain.**
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Axiom, you might want to check these quotes: "when it began to rain" or "when he began to reign"?
Iqbal
OPPPPPS SORRY. Its not rain. Its reign. I appologise for that. I have just corrected it. Iqbal, thanks for correcting me. You have corrected me several times in the past too. So thanks for that too.
I appologise again. Did Ahizya start his reign (not rain) at the age of 22 or 42
Wonder if God worries so much about what we agree or disagree about him?
<~~ Thinking that God is God. A thought. A prayer. And a hope.
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*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *
* just a thought *
Wonder if God worries so much about what we agree or disagree about him?
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:)
I hope He is humoured sometimes with our intellectual naïvety/stupidity.....
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*Originally posted by Axiom: *
Yes, blitz I do notice the word Among. But guess what I notice it with. I notice it with "THE SIGNS"......AMONG THE SIGNS. NOT AMONG THE CHRISTIANS.
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Ok Axiom, I guess you are right. From what I understand of the scripture, anyone possessing the Holy Spirit are able to do amazing things, however, not of their own accord but by the will of God, and for His glorification only. If Christ who was possible to raise the dead, did not satisfy Satan's measley requests, when he was in the desert, what makes you think any true believer should satisfy a non-believer's curiosity simply because he dares it?
Peace
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Axiom: *
"Muhammad 'Abduh (Egypt) - the charge of corruption
Mawlawi Muhammad Sa'id (Pakistan) -
Sayyid Ahmad Husayn Shawkat Mirthi - "
Blitz, I don't know who these people are and how could these people say this.
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Axiom that's cool, however don't dismiss what they say, just because you "don't know them" but examine and and investigate what made them say what they did. it for example:
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*Originally posted by Axiom: *
......If you believe them when they say this, why won't you believe them if they say that the Hell is the most wonderfull place to go.......
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huh!............
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*Originally posted by Axiom: *
These people seem to be Muslims. So if you believe them when they say that there are no contradictions in Injeel why don't you believe them when they say that Islam is the correct religion.
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Why?...... If they said what they did that means any other message after Christ's is redundant. Anyway my faith depends not on what people think or say of Christ, but what he has done for ME.
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*Originally posted by Axiom: *
Any way if you want a contradiction, let me help you:
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Oh! lets not open that can of worms!
Peace
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*Originally posted by Axiom: * Any way if you want a contradiction, let me help you: 2King.8v26 vs 2Chron.22v2
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Ahaz-iah could not be 42 years old because his father his immediate predecessor) died when he was 40 years old. Some scholars make the 42 years in Chronicles to be the age of his mother Athaliah, for in the original it is he was the son of forty-two years, that is, the son of a mother that was of that age. Her age is used , in reproach to him, because she managed him, and did what she would. She, in effect, reigned, and he had little more than the title of king.
Many other scholars are ready to allow that this was a mistake of some transcriber, who put 42 in stead of 22. Many ancient translations DO read here 22. These scholars contain that few books are printed without any errata and the authors are not being blamed. The same in this case.
Bottom line:
Please provide mistakes/contradictions that will materially change/challenge the Christian faith - IF YOU CAN!
ok..another thought?
Sinse Mohammad was circa 800 A.D.? And Jesus BCE to about 30 A.D.?
And Moses circa 2000 BCE.?
Just when exactly were the books changed to deny Mohammad?
<~~ no biblical scholar here.. but isn't that a logical question?
Ishmail is in the bible. He was also a son of Abraham I believe? And blessed by Abraham. Who denys this fact?
And another thought?? Aren't we all descended from Adam? Truly? We are brothers and sisters.
Our mothers likely ingrained our religious perceptions to us. We are Catholic, Jew, or Muslim because of our early teaching.
One can debate a phrase but.. for the most part? Aren't they saying/teaching us the same thing?
Scroll back and look at the examples of the discrepensies(s)..
Isn't the teaching pretty much the same?
Homage
Worship
Fall down to your knees?
The writers, write and express their emotion..their teaching and understanding. And their uniqueness.
So very human for one to describe a thing different than another. So very utterly human.
As we are. Together completely and utterly human.
As humans we percieve things like a human... differently.. depending on our language and our culture. Our personality even.
If a teacher would request a class of 30 students to write a report about an issue... not even one single report would have exactly the same words...though the moral/subject would be consistant.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by The Old Man: *
Bottom line:
Please provide mistakes/contradictions that will materially change/challenge the Christian faith - IF YOU CAN!
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To those who subscribe to the Bible inerrancy doctrine (and of course many, if not most, Christians do), it matters little whether the mistakes concern matters of history or theology - in either case a mistake is a mistake. The view of Biblical inerrantists is that the Bible is without error. As one author put it: "If the Holy Spirit is responsible for what the biblical writers wrote, and if the Bible contains errors in historical details, then the Holy Spirit is the author of error."
Judging by your concluding remark, would it be correct to assume therefore that you don't personally ascribe to the belief that the Bible is inerrant?
Iqbal
Possibly you could gist that...
But..the moral teaching of the bible I think is infalible.
You may, can and will argue that by my statement I admit error.
I concide.
Surely, scribes made mistakes, mis-translated words. Used words that were never said.....
(Which is true for me..sinse I read it in English)
And I'm pretty sure the written words were Aramic.
Larger question is?
Morally? Do the teachings of the Bible differ from the Quoran?
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Ok Axiom, I guess you are right. From what I understand of the scripture, anyone possessing the Holy Spirit are able to do amazing things, however, not of their own accord but by the will of God, and for His glorification only. If Christ who was possible to raise the dead, did not satisfy Satan's measley requests, when he was in the desert, what makes you think any true believer should satisfy a non-believer's curiosity simply because he dares it?
[/QUOTE]
The fact that Christ actually raised the dead and showed it to Satan makes me think any true Christian believer should satisfy a non-believers curiosity. Besides, this test is not meant to satisfy a non-Christian. It is meant to satisfy a CHRISTIAN. It will tell whether he is a true believer or not. As far as the will of God is concerned(although the verse doesn't say anything about God's will), God has cleary said that any True Christian Believer will pass the test. God's will is with the true Christian believer, the one who can pass the test. It is God's will that only a True Christian Believer can pass the test. Now you have a method of finding out whether you are a True Christian believer or not. I suggest you use it instead of running away from it.
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When Christians (and Jews?) in Arabia denied Mohammed (s.a) prophethood and allegedly "changed their scriptures" to omit him from it, Should it not have been apparent in the scriptures (Injeel & Torah) of other far off lands? (since high-speed media was not in existance then)
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The Christians and Jews never succeeded(if they even tried) in changing their scriptures to omit Muhammad(saws) from it because Muhammad(SAWS) is STILL mentioned in the Jewish and Christian scriptures.
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Where among all the verses of the Qur'an is it mentioned that the Injil or Tawrat is corrupted... it is written that the Jews -... NOT THE CHRISTIANS... "ALTER THE MEANING OF THE PASSAGES" from the Tawrat while they are explaining them
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It doesn't say anything about Jews or Christians. It says about "The people of the Book"
"There is among them a section who distort the book with their tongues:[as they read] you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say,"That is from Allah", but it is not from Allah and they know it." (3:78)
"This verse refers to "The people of the Book" (3:75)which includes the Christians.
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"Would God Almighty permit the adultrations of His sacred Word. If the Muslims believe he preserves His Word in the Quran, why should He not have preserved it then? "
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Yes He would and He did permit adulterations of His word. If He didn't allow His word to be adultered, there would have been no Messenger after Abraham(PBUH). Why do you think Jesus (PBUH) was sent to this world if God's words weren't adultered. The main reason why a next Messenger was sent by God was that the teachings of the previous Messenger were lost, forgotten, or tampered with. The reason why God preserves His word in the Quran is that Muhammad (SAWS) is the last Messenger of Allah. If the Quran is adultered then all of humanity will be in trouble because their will be no next Messenger to show us the straight path. Muhammad(SAWS) is the last Messenger, Quran is the last time God sent down His word. That is why He will protect it from being adultered.
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Why?...... If they said what they did that means any other message after Christ's is redundant. Anyway my faith depends not on what people think or say of Christ, but what he has done for ME.
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But why are they Muslims if the Bible has no contradictions. It seems that they are either lying or saying it unintentionally. In both cases whatever they say is dismissed. I hope now you are sure that I did examine and investigate what they said.
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Many other scholars are ready to allow that this was a mistake of some transcriber, who put 42 in stead of 22.
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I think the "many scholars" don't know that a Bible is not written overnight(by a Transcriber) and its copies are not made and distributed in the morning. There is a community and a group of people well versed with the Bible who check the Bible for such errors by "THE TRANSCRIBER" before it is published. You expect me to believe that all the People who verified the Bible before it was published didn't notice this. If the transcriber made one mistake then he is bound to have made a lot of mistakes. Blame the transcriber for the errors. Convenient, isn't it.
So I'll try something for which the Transcriber cannot be blamed.
(leviticus chapter12 verse 1-5)says that:
"If a woman gives birth to a male child,she will be unclean for one week and 33 days(Total 40 days).If she gives birth to a female child she will be unclean for two weeks and 66 days (Total 80 days)."How do you justify scientifically that a woman remains unclean for twice the period after giving birth to a female as compared to male.
It is a ceremonial-religious regulation, not a medical regulation. Phew! 
The name or reference to the Prophet Mohammed is NOT indicated or mentioned in Jewish and Christian Scripture. This fallacy have been repeatedly disproved. Apparently you still insist on this error - please supply irrefutable evidence to prove your statement.
I call myself a fundamentalist, others disagree. I believe the Bible to be God’s Word given to us by the Holy Spirit using sinful humans to write it down, keep it safe, and distribute it in all possible languages. It can only be totally error free if we can hear God speak the words ourselves. “Infallable” w.r.t. the Bible does not mean without any errors whatsoever, but without significant error in doctrine or practice. The next best is to have the author, the Holy Spirit, to explain and help us reading the Scriptures. This is why the Holy Spirit was sent to the followers of Jesus Christ as told by Jesus himself in John.16v7-13. There are today many intellectual people with fancy degrees that, unfortunately, can not understand the Scriptures because they do not have the Author guiding them. Unfortunately this is also true for yourself and people like Axiom. Minor discrepancies or errors in various translations/versions do not put me off because the full truth of God Almighty can still be seen in even some of the worst translations. ** In short: I believe the Bible to be “infallable” not “inerrant”.** Most of so-called errors/inaccuracies quoted by people can be proved not to be or due to wrong logic. If Axiom get tired, I might help him… 
My view on the Qu’ran: the Prophet Muhammed could apparantly not write and dictated it to others. If the message he heard were from God, his wording it to the scribes were already one step removed from what God told him, two steps removed when they wrote it down and he could not check accuracy, three steps removed since the original writings do not exist anymore. I have seen various errors/inaccuracies/disagreements between verses in the Qu’ran and the fact that I am a guest on this, a mainly Muslim site, prevent me from discussing it because of my respect towards various people here and their views.
The only perfect “thing” in this universe is God Almighty… not any book, person, image, building, etc. All that is not God, is flawed in some sort of manner.
SORRY. WRONG POST. GO ON TO THE NEXT ONE.
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It is a ceremonial-religious regulation, not a medical regulation. Phew!
[/QUOTE]
[For male child] Ceremonially for 7 days + 33 days to purify from bleeding
[For female child] Ceremonially for 14 days + 66 days to purify from bleeding
The verse says that only 7 days for male and 14 days for female are ceremonial regulations. The extra 33 days for males and 66 days for female are for medical regulations.
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There are today many intellectual people with fancy degrees that, unfortunately, can not understand the Scriptures because they do not have the Author guiding them.
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What should these people do. Isn't it injustice that these people will go to Hell (according to Christianity) because they fail to understand the Scripture because they donot have the Author guiding them???.
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Minor discrepancies or errors in various translations/versions do not put me off because the full truth of God Almighty can still be seen in even some of the worst translations.
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That is exactly why I quoted the above verse. It is not an error in the translations/versions but a scientific error. And God cannot make scientific errors because He is the one who made science.
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Most of so-called errors/inaccuracies quoted by people can be proved not to be or due to wrong logic. If Axiom get tired, I might help him....
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Please correct my logic concerning the above verse.
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The only perfect "thing" in this universe is God Almighty.... not any book, person, image, building, etc. All that is not God, is flawed in some sort of manner.
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Then why do you read the Bible if it is flawed.
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My view on the Qu'ran: the Prophet Muhammed could apparantly not write and dictated it to others. If the message he heard were from God, his wording it to the scribes were already one step removed from what God told him, two steps removed when they wrote it down and he could not check accuracy, three steps removed since the original writings do not exist anymore. I have seen various errors/inaccuracies/disagreements between verses in the Qu'ran and the fact that I am a guest on this, a mainly Muslim site, prevent me from discussing it because of my respect towards various people here and their views.
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I have heard that the best anti-Muslim site is answering-Islam.org. Unfortunately the site is blocked in the country I live in. I assume you have access to this site. So could you copy and PM me the pages. I mean, if its ok with you or anyone else. Because I really wish to see this site. Thanks
And if you have any extra "Alleged" contradictions in the Quran (not from the site) then PM them too. I'll try and refute them INSHA-ALLAH.
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The name or reference to the Prophet Mohammed is NOT indicated or mentioned in Jewish and Christian Scripture. This fallacy have been repeatedly disproved. Apparently you still insist on this error - please supply irrefutable evidence to prove your statement
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Lets start with the most common verse:
Deuteronomy(18:18)
"I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him"
This was said by God to Moses(PBUH). Now who according to you, is the verse talking about. The Prophet is Muhammad(SAWS). If you say that it refers to any other Prophet please provide his name and your arguments in his favour.
Axiom,
Difficult question.
Christians believe that it's Jesus.
Muslims believe that it's Mohammad.
Simple logic tells me its Jesus..because he came after Moses.
I guess the key word would be brother. Would the word, brother, be the defined/definate concenses of all scholars?
Because I agree that the word brother could be understood as a
descendent of Ishmael, sinse he was a brother to Isaac? (I think?)
You know? Maybe God meant this statement obliquely.. so to be heard by all of his children. Christians and Muslims? Humans and humans?
Maybe he didn't intend people to debate the subject. Perhaps that is exactly what HE intended so that we would be thinking about HIM.
AAG, the keywords are "....LIKE YOU....", Where "YOU" refers to Moses(PBUH). Who ever the Prophet is he should be like Moses(PBUH), according to the verse. Now, the old man gave a list in one of his previous posts.
This prophet would:
I would like to extend this list:
Jesus(PBUH) didnot make his own laws like Moses(PBUH) but Muhammad(SAWS) did:
"Think not that I have come to destroy the law of the Prophets. I have not come to destroy but to fulfill."[Gospel of Mathews(5:17)]
Jesus(PBUH) fits in none of the prophecies from 5 to 10 where as Muhammad(SAWS) fits in all of them. The oldman says that Muhammad(saws) didn't do miracles and didnot have Jewish roots. BUT the Prophet(SAWS) did do miracles:
1. Splitting up the moon.
2. Riding to the heavens on Buraq
3. etc
As far as roots are concerned. The roots of Muhammad(SAWS) and Moses(PBUH) are the same i.e. Abraham(AS). The verse doesn't say anything about being a Jew. It says that the Prophet will be like Moses(PBUH). Like Moses(SAWS) he would call everyone towards one God. Which is exactly what Muhammad(SAWS) did.