Music and Painting is not Haram

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

Re: Music and Painting is not Haram

^ A very good one, I might add, much better than most scholars.

BRIDAL PICS.
42

Then may be you haven't seen or heard any scholars.

Never judge a book....
Never judge a book....
Never judge a book....
Never judge a book....
43

I have, we've invited everyone here, from yusuf istes to siraj wahaj. I find this guy much more convincing anytime.

44

Thank you. That's the point here.

That's the misunderstanding here.

For me, Ghamdi did not say it is OK to listen to Billo.

He instead leaves it upto you (an adult, thinking, human being) to decide it for you and your kids (or younger siblings). And if you think Billo isn't good, then do not listen. It is your choice and Ghamdi is not going to force you to listen.

45

hmmm…Yusuf Estes and Siraj Wahaj aren’t really scholars.

I’m talking about scholars like Shaykh Nuh ha meem keller, he’s a specialist in islamic law and Abdal Hakim murad who’s one of the most educated person in the world today.

Here’s a link for Shaykh Nuh Ha Meem’s audio about Music…listen to it when you’re free and then share your thoughts with us.

Nuh Ha Mim Keller - Music in Islam | Halal Tube

Nuh Ha Mim Keller - Music, Fiqh and Islam | Halal Tube

His opinion is stricter than few other scholars but he has points.

46

If we should be deciding everything then there's no need to consult Scholars, Sunnah or even Qur'an. Right?

If he's speaking in public saying do whatever you think is right then he should atleast give the people a criteria or even some hints for right and wrong elements.

47

Many of us like someone based on the TV appearances and that is OK for most part.

However if we dislike someone, then if possible we should go see that scholar / teacher and perhaps spend a day or two. Do not go to criticize and bother him/her but instead observe. Let him show you his house / university office. His library, his books, and let you meet his students.

Most of the scholars are noble in their objectives. The problem comes only if a scholar become emotional and start trying to force others to accept his faith / teachings. And whoever refuses (peacefully and respectfully) they issue fatwas of killings etc.

That's where some of the Iranian, Suadi, and most Talibani scholars / teachers become corrupt. Because they start issuing fatwas on peaceful but opposing scholars.

A true scholar may not agree with others, but he must not issue fatwa to kill, maim, or bomb peaceful opponents.

Ghamdi, Zakir etc. fall in the good scholar / teacher category from this specific aspect of tolerating others.

48

Sis, I hear you and I share your concern.

but we ought to be specific and not generalize things. Right now we are just talking about music, and thus the choice is upto you for MUSIC and songs ONLY. Nowhere in the topic (or Ghamdi video) there is a mention of allowing/disallowing pornography. Then why are you bringing that into this discussion?

I wish you had (if not already) been taught the soofiana poetry in Urdu or other Indian language by a good linguistic professor. In soofiana poetry there are ample references to love, mating, wine etc. that you may find offensive. However a good soofi teacher will tell you that the love is meant for Allah, and mating means becoming one with Allah, and wine is the sharabe-tahoor.

Thus it will be your decision to figure out if the poet means Ishqe Haqiqi (love of god) or Ishqe majazi (the worldly love). Then if you come to a conclusion that the poet (in your mind) is talking about worldly love, and you don't like it, then do not buy the book, and do not read it, or do not listen to it.

In general however, you are correct that no one is allowed to make a choice on more fundamental issues.

Like you cannot make a choice to stop at Green traffic light and go on Red light. You cannot make a choice to cross the road at any place (if there is a law against J-walking). You cannot make a choice to tell lies, or not return a loan, or you cannot make a choice to be hateful, intolerant and vengeful about your peaceful neighbor.

So please do not stretch the discussion beyond what the topic is and the context within which Ghamdi was speaking.

49

Re: Music and Painting is not Haram

The Sufic kalam is not comparable to amourous love music and song. One enhances the spirit the other enhances the body.

The words can be interpreted in a number of different ways, but interpretation comes with context it is not isolated to itself.

Intent of the song writer
The words themselves
The medium by which those words reach you
The interpretation rendered by the recipient

Are all important ... together.

It is thus not adequate excuse for a man for example to be bathing naked in a pool of naked women, on the 'intention' alone that he is 'just having a bath'. The act itself is outside the permissble limits and it does not count that the intentions are clean.

Onlookers could be misguided by such action for example.

For poetry to be deemed acceptable and classed as Sufic it needs to be:

Written for the intent to praise God
Literally natural (albeit can be exaggerated for expression but the nature cannot be changed i.e. call Allah(SWT) a woman or refer to in female gender)
That the poetry is restricted to the voice and tones and harmonies which do not bloat the desires, or without any music at all.
Then and only then is it down to the recipient to interpret in the correct manner

50

So you have already decided.

You like the first type (Sufi) so listen to it.
You don't like "amorous love music" so do not listen to it.

For this decision you don't even have to go to Ghamdi or anyone else. Thank God you already know it.

Case closed!

This is irrelevant for a man who cannot bathe in a pool with naked women. Isn't it?

51

Re: Music and Painting is not Haram

Lets not dwell into matters which have been dealt with 1400 years ago.

If we listen to music, lets not justify it for the wrong reasons. If we listen to it, keep it to ourselves, lets not share our sins. But the least we can do is not justify things which are wrong.

1400 years of scholarship has stated and stood by music being haram. We are in no position to change that with our limited knowledge.

52

Well, that depends. After reading grays Anatomy, both a real doctor and novice could answer the same questions regarding gross Anatomy.

And if an Alim and novice were to read the same exact text and had the same exact resources, then their interpretations would be equally valid.

53

Not according Sufis. Their tradition goes back centuries.

54

As-Salamu 'Alaykum

:bism:

respected brother, according to who growing beard is not obligatory? Please don’t forget to quote the early scholars’ view on this?

correct, and no sound minded Muslim will say that they’re halal to listen!

lol, which scholars? sufi deviant scholars?

how does this incident prove that you can use any kind of musical instruments, all the time on all the occassions?

please do not misquote what they actually said

I’ve dealt with similar arguments in details here

it depends what is the purpose of it. As far as I know some of the contemporary sunni scholars differed on the ruling whether Islamic videos are ok or not.

you should know that the Sharee’ah rulings change upon something being neccesity.

i haven’t studied much about this so don’t know the exact Sharee’ah ruling.

and your point is? this doesn’t prove what you’re trying to imply. refer to the link i posted above

how does their actions prove that Music is halal or what they did is halal?

Wallahu A’alam

55

Re: Music and Painting is not Haram

^^ According to Wahabis, differnce of opinion comes near to Kufr but they dont dare to give any fatwa against the royal kingdom etc

56

Re: Music and Painting is not Haram

^you asked for an answer to your confusions and now you've started this "wahabi" bashing. Is that all you wanted? does this make you a true seeker of truth?

[quote]
According to Wahabis, differnce of opinion comes near to Kufr
[/quote]
please quote me an evidence for this? if you can't then apologize and fear Allah.

and when did no "wahabi" scholar spoken indirectly or directly against the royal family; don't speak without knowledge.

Which British monarch...
57

Re: Music and Painting is not Haram

Just listen this and read the poetry ,if this is bidaat ,deviant thing or shirk and sufias like Abdul Qadir,Bayazeed,Rabia,Junaid,Chisti,Nizaam,Jaami, Rumi are deviant then I am also Deviant,Biddati and Mushrik , by the grace of Allah !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BMrO9KMZGs&feature=related

58

Re: Music and Painting is not Haram

Part 2

A legendary naat by Imam e Ashiqaan Jami from another brother’s blog with his own -good-translation:

Tanam Farsooda jaa para
Ze Hijra Ya Rasul Allah صلي الله عليه و سلم
Dillam Paz Murda Aawara
Ze Isyaa. Ya Rasul Allah صلي الله عليه و سلم!

My body is dissolving in your separation
And my soul is breaking into pieces. Ya Rasul Allah!صلي الله عليه و سلم
Due to my sins, My heart is weak and becoming enticed. Ya Rasul Allah!
صلي الله عليه و سلم

Choon Soo’e Mun Guzar Aari
Manne Miskeen Zanaa Daari
Fida-E-Naqsh-E-Nalainat
Kunam Ja. Ya Rasul Allah!صلي الله عليه و سلم

When you pass by me
Then even in my immense poverty, ecstatically,
I must sacrifice my soul on your blessed sandal. Ya Rasul Allah!صلي الله عليه و سلم

Ze Jaame Hubb To Mustam
Ba Zanjeere To Dil Bustam
Nu’mi Goyam Ke Mun Bustum
Sukun Daa. Ya Rasul Allah صلي الله عليه و سلم!

I am drowned in the taste of your love
And the chain of your love binds my heart.
Yet I don’t say that I know this language (of love). Ya Rasul Allah
صلي الله عليه و سلم!

Ze Kharda Khaish Hairaanam
Siyaa Shud Roze Isyaanam
Pashemaanam, Pashemaanam, Pashemaanam. Ya Rasul Allah صلي الله عليه و سلم!

I am worried due to my misdeeds;
And I feel that my sins have blackened my heart. Ya Rasul Allah!
صلي الله عليه و سلم
I am in distress! I am in distress! I am in distress! Ya Rasul Allah!
صلي الله عليه و سلم

Choon Baazoo’e Shafaa’at Raa
Khushaa’I Bar Gunaagara
Makun Mahruume Jaami Raa
Daraa Aan. Ya Rasul Allah صلي الله عليه و سلم!

Ya Rasul Allah صلي الله عليه و سلم! When you spread your hands to intercede for the sinners,
Then do not deprive Jaami of your exalted intercession.

http://www.sufi.co.za/tanam%20farsooda.htm

The poem demonstrates the depth of love Hadrat Maulana Abdur Rahman Jaami (rahmatullah alayh) had for Sayyiduna Rasulullah صلي الله عليه و سلم
May Allah (SWT) grant us all a share of such love for his Habib, Ameen.
Online rendition’s of Tanam Farsooda jaa para Ze Hijra Ya Rasul Allah صلي الله عليه و سلم

is on the following link
http://ishaateislam.net/audio/rehan/Tanam_Farsooda.rm

59

good point.

60


anything accompanied with musical instruments is haram as musical instruments are haram (listening or using them). you asked about it and i gave you a decent answer. If you don't agree with me that's fine, you'll be answering Allah for what you do. However, fear Allah Ta'ala before accusing or bashing your brother in Islaam. When did I say that if you listen to music you become a bidti/deviant or mushrik? Please don't include Shaykh Abdul Qadir Jalani (rahimahullah) with others; he was a Sunni Hanabli scholar not a sufi peer as many sufi portrait him to be.

[quote]
And I feel that my sins have blackened my heart. Ya Rasul Allah!
[/quote]
if lines like these mean that the singer is calling for help then it is shirk. calling the Messenger of Allah (sala-allahu 'alayhi wa salam) directly for help is a shirk.

and i'm still waiting for this

please quote me an evidence for this? if you can't then apologize and fear Allah.

and when did no "wahabi" scholar spoken indirectly or directly against the royal family; don't speak without knowledge.
[/quote]

jeena sikha diya