Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
^ 
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
That is right:
So what? … Above statement in the report only says that around 500 people (up to 450 women and children plus about 60 hardened militants) were present when fight started (leading the fight means at the start of the fight, not at the end of the fight).
Presence of around 450 hostages in that building kept the government from all out attack. Instead of attacking and destroying the building with everyone inside, government started siege. Government started announcing amnesty for all who surrender except wanted criminals, and waited days so that women and children come out. Actually, government even blasted the outside wall of lal-building so that those who are kept hostage unwillingly could come out easily. Many kept coming out of that building over that time, and that includes Veiled Mullah Aziz and family of Kharjee brothers.
It was when government made sure that all who could come out of that building came out, that included all women and children, and around 90 hardcore Criminals were left inside the building, Criminals of local as well as foreign origin, for whom Kharjee brothers of lal-building wanted negotiated safe passage, safe passage that Ijaj-ul-haq and Chaudhari Shujaat were willing to agree, government launched attack.
I and I believe many Pakistanis do not think that government should have agreed to negotiated safe passage for Kharjee criminals, and that what government did was perfectly fine.
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
Can some one please tell me how much weapons they found from lal masjid out of that terrorist killing operation?
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
No sympathy for munafiq women either. If they support anti-Islam radicals of Lal Building and continue to stay in there when govt had given all kinds of warning for them to leave, then in the end they deserved to die for their fasaad.
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
We cannot be inhumane and be like the terrorists. There has to be difference between us and them.
July 10: The security forces launched a final operation against the Lal Masjid militants at 4am after all efforts to defuse the situation failed. Troops storm the mosque in a bid to free the women and children inside, sparking fierce gun battles with militants that leave at least 50 militants and eight soldiers dead, the army said. Ghazi is also killed in the operation.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\07\11\story_11-7-2007_pg7_24
There is controversy even acknowledged by all opposite parties even by the court (search the news/links at your leisure), as to how this issue was handled by the govt.
You believe whatever you want. Information available speaks against that or at best leads to controversy. 
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
He did some mistakes and he accepting it and applogying to the nation, and its on persons u want to forgive him or not, he is not like other corrupt retrated big heads looters politicians who just doing nothing but eating pakistan by all means.. about lal masjid incedient he did a clear needy action. Every govt. in world including pakistan have no soft corner for terrorists and what was claiming was a black mail for Govt.. The all Adults inside that building was there on their own wish, and they used children for their own devil wishes and plans to black mail govt. and get some soft corner by using media. we all sad for the inocent lives lost but the Action was necessary to protect and save govt.Rit... and BTW the Bank robery and related hostages thing are quite different case.
Back on topic again he still a reasonable person to run a govt. compare with all dirty stinky politicians.
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
Can some one please tell me how much weapons they found from lal masjid out of that terrorist killing operation?
If you want to go into memory lane, from what I remember, the figures that came out were:
Death toll: ISPR figure = 86 (11 soldiers and 75 Kharjees) ... or ... Islamabad civilian administration figure = 102 (11 soldiers and 91 Kharjees).
Unused arms cache that army recovered: Dozen of RPGs (Rocket Propelled Grenades). Numerous explosive devices and hand grenades. Number of anti-tank mines, anti-personnel mines, and petrol bombs. Two to three dozen guns and large quantity of ammunition rounds. Plus few unexploded suicide vests (that is on top of many suicide vests that terrorists used to blew themselves during operation).
Actually, TV at that time showed video of Cache that army recovered from lal-building and Madrasa. TV also showed the state of battle ground inside lal-building and Madrasa. From state, it was easy to conclude the intensity of resistance Kharjees gave to army commandos (casualty also proves the intensity of resistance from Kharjees, as it claimed precious life of 11 soldiers).
I believe, later (in late 2008) some people tried to steal arms cache that army recovered from lal-Masjid, though it was recovered (I think, all this happened in Dev 2008).
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
musharraf is being stupid entering politics again. he has it pretty good but wants to entery the dirty world of pakistani politics...
sach kaha hai kisi nai... chuTati nahin hai zaalim ye munh ko lagi hoi
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
i wonder what we have come to, now our people try everything possible to support killing of innocent people who were there either against their wish or didnt know what they were doing, simply for the love of a thief marasi, aka mush. and every time they are presented the fact that it was nothing but a massacre, a brutal killing spree, an ego case at the end, they simply say no it was all lie there was no one other than terrorists, and all those women and children were also terrorists : ) now i know what kind of "face book fans" mush has : D
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
He did some mistakes and he accepting it and applogying to the nation, and its on persons u want to forgive him or not, he is not like other corrupt retrated big heads looters politicians who just doing nothing but eating pakistan by all means.. about lal masjid incedient he did a clear needy action. Every govt. in world including pakistan have no soft corner for terrorists and what was claiming was a black mail for Govt.. The all Adults inside that building was there on their own wish, and they used children for their own devil wishes and plans to black mail govt. and get some soft corner by using media. we all sad for the inocent lives lost but the Action was necessary to protect and save govt.Rit... and BTW the Bank robery and related hostages thing are quite different case. Back on topic again he still a reasonable person to run a govt. compare with all dirty stinky politicians.
This.
Other idiots does not even have courage to utter a word "sorry" from their mouth
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
^ i dont know what other idiots you are referring to... i can recall these "sorry"
- NS/ PMLn said official sorry for their politics in 90s, when they along with PPP and other parties signed the CoD in the UK
- Imran said sorry for supporting Mush
- JI/ MMA said sorry for helping US some time ago and supporting mush in his first tenure I cannot recall the only two parties (who are in National and Provincial Assemblies) MQM and ANP, who did not say sorry for anything (or they think they never done any wrong??)
but the point is not saying sorry, its the magnitude of damage you made to the country and its people, in case of mush, the damage still continues, even reinforced by zardari.
and this idiot doesn't even seem to learn how to speak, his speech was full of 3rd class personal attacks. when he was president, he used to show fist and said about 12th May massacre "it was our show of power in Karachi", about bugti he said "tumhain wahan say hit karaingay kay pata bhee nahi chalega" about lal masjid he said "surrender karna parayga warna maray jaingay", and now this utter crap coming out of his mouth. this only goes to show that he lacks the capability to learn with time, and he cannot perform anywhere else other than army because there he only had to follow the instructions of his seniors. even in army when he reached the stage where he was the one issuing instructions to everyone, he screwed up everything. now dont ask me to give you links about all these "sorries" i mentioned above, and how he screwed up army and its reputation, and what mess he dragged Pakistan into, this is all known to everyone, until and unless we close our eyes and do not want to see the so obvious just in the love of this 3rd class marasi tabla nawaz
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
If you want to go into memory lane, from what I remember, the figures that came out were:
Death toll: ISPR figure = 86 (11 soldiers and 75 Kharjees) ... or ... Islamabad civilian administration figure = 102 (11 soldiers and 91 Kharjees).
Unused arms cache that army recovered: Dozen of RPGs (Rocket Propelled Grenades). Numerous explosive devices and hand grenades. Number of anti-tank mines, anti-personnel mines, and petrol bombs. Two to three dozen guns and large quantity of ammunition rounds. Plus few unexploded suicide vests (that is on top of many suicide vests that terrorists used to blew themselves during operation).
Actually, TV at that time showed video of Cache that army recovered from lal-building and Madrasa. TV also showed the state of battle ground inside lal-building and Madrasa. From state, it was easy to conclude the intensity of resistance Kharjees gave to army commandos (casualty also proves the intensity of resistance from Kharjees, as it claimed precious life of 11 soldiers).
I believe, later (in late 2008) some people tried to steal arms cache that army recovered from lal-Masjid, though it was recovered (I think, all this happened in Dev 2008).
i know its old enough and not easy, but can you please try to come up with any news link which lists these arms which you mentioned. if not i still believe what you say, just wanted to see more details if you have.
and lets say if these were all the arms recovered from Lal Masjid, will you deny that a lot more arms are recovered a lot of times from Karachi? and will you deny that many areas in Karachi had (and still have) complete bunker type constructs, and whenever there is demand of search for arms and disarmament of the civilians in karachi there is a huge out cry from MQM and ANP, and MQM demans this operation only ANP areas? do you support a Lal Masjid like action in those areas of Karachi where everybody knows there are more arms than this what you mentioned? and do you believe that all those sisters/mothers/wives/daughters and young children of those terrorists (no matter which political party they belong to) are also terrorists and they should be bombed and burnt the same way people in Lal Masjid got bombed???
If your answer is not "Yes" to this, then i'm sorry but its simple and plain hypocrisy at your end.
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
I am speaking about the leader - who should lead from the FRONT not from 3rd class party "spoksman"
Secondly apart from 12th may, Bhugti and LaL Masjid brought onto themselves. Although I believe Pakistan Army would have done a bit better job but both Bugti and Lal Masjid were fighting the State and thats what you get when you fight the state.
and yes I am ALL FOR cleaning up the cities from arms. Be it low level MQM unit in-charge or be it guard of NA, Qaim Ali Shah or Bashir Bloor.
and finally unless you were on Mars from last 20 years, Army/Police had already done two such operations against MQM (Pakka Qila and 1992) and I think the same about those operations. That better job could have been done but those operations were required.
I have never seen you condemning killing of innocents in Pakka Qila operation?
oh and as far as 3rd class personal attacks of Mush are concerned you are giving him run for his money. just look at bold parts. All you came up with in the end is personal attack that has nothing to do with his politics ...just what you are accusing Mush off - funny eh?
Happy browsing!
^ i dont know what other idiots you are referring to... i can recall these "sorry"
- NS/ PMLn said official sorry for their politics in 90s, when they along with PPP and other parties signed the CoD in the UK
- Imran said sorry for supporting Mush
- JI/ MMA said sorry for helping US some time ago and supporting mush in his first tenure I cannot recall the only two parties (who are in National and Provincial Assemblies) MQM and ANP, who did not say sorry for anything (or they think they never done any wrong??)
but the point is not saying sorry, its the magnitude of damage you made to the country and its people, in case of mush, the damage still continues, even reinforced by zardari.
and this idiot doesn't** even seem to learn how to speak, his speech was full of 3rd class personal attacks*. when he was president, he used to show fist and said about 12th May massacre "it was our show of power in Karachi", about bugti he said "tumhain wahan say hit karaingay kay pata bhee nahi chalega" about lal masjid he said "surrender karna parayga warna maray jaingay", and now this utter crap coming out of his mouth. this only goes to show that he lacks the capability to learn with time, and he cannot perform anywhere else other than army because there he only had to follow the instructions of his seniors. even in army when he reached the stage where he was the one issuing instructions to everyone, he screwed up everything. now dont ask me to give you links about all these "sorries" i mentioned above, and how he screwed up army and its reputation, and what mess he dragged Pakistan into, this is all known to everyone, until and unless we close our eyes and do not want to see the so **obvious just in the love of this 3rd class marasi tabla nawaz*
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
D6C: are you saying in Pakka Qila clean up, the premises was heavily bombed and even phosphorus bombs were used to burn everything inside and erase all evidences???
and yes i know there have been two operations in Karachi, I'm talking about the present day, when the number of arms is wayyyy more than before. and yes i condemn any killing of innocent people anywhere, be it in Lal Masjid or Pakka Qila, but i believe in no way the action taken at both places was equal. The only difference is that people who died at Lal masjid (including the terrorists) are all being summed up as extremists their killing is being shown as legitimate one, including women and children, even some of our members totally deny the fact there 100s of women were present there, they simply say that its a lie and thats it. Because people who got killed in Lal Masjid were not backed by any political party thats why they end up being terrorists, while people in Pakka Qila were backed by MQM (an ethnic based political party) they end up being martyrs. The same army who did the operation in Lal Masjid is said to be heroic and savior by some people on this board. But when the same army was involved in Karachi operation it was considered killing innocent people. This is nothing but hypocrisy and shoes that some of our members simply cannot see anything beyond what their leaders teach them in any kind of khitaab.
PS: I know your stance about Karachi already. I was merely making my point about saying sorry, but because you replied to both of my posts in one, thats why i had to mention all this here
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
oh and as far as 3rd class personal attacks of Mush are concerned you are giving him run for his money. just look at bold parts. All you came up with in the end is personal attack that has nothing to do with his politics ...just what you are accusing Mush off - funny eh?
are you saying hes not Tabla Nawaz? and 3rd class because nobody listens to his tabla, and marasi because generally in subcontinent marasies are into this stuff : ) so there was nothing other than fact
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
I found this link:
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/lal-masjid-weapons-stolen-from-police-lockup-wk
Lal Masjid weapons stolen from police lockup
A large cache of arms, including AK 47’s, rocket launchers, anti-tank mines, grenades and a huge quantity of bullets had been seized by security forces during the Lal Masjid operation that ended on July 11, 2007.
About 80 guns, including mortars, heavy machine guns (HMGs), light machine guns (LMGs), Kalashnikovs and a large quantity of bullets were among the stolen weapons.”
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
are you saying hes not Tabla Nawaz? and 3rd class because nobody listens to his tabla, and marasi because generally in subcontinent marasies are into this stuff : ) so there was nothing other than fact
I think he was also mentioning the fact that NS is dumb and in fact went through hair transplant :)
anyways, we are almost on same page :D
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
Can some one please tell me how much weapons they found from lal masjid out of that terrorist killing operation?
As many that were found in Saddam's stash of WMDs.
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
...Secondly apart from 12th may, Bhugti and LaL Masjid brought onto themselves. Although I believe Pakistan Army would have done a bit better job but both Bugti and Lal Masjid were fighting the State and thats what you get when you fight the state. .............
Forgive my ignorance, but please enlighten me WHY Bugti and Lal Masjid people were fighting the state?
You keep a province in utter poverty for decades, do not give them their due share of national wealth, do not bother about the conditions of people living there, don't provide natural gas to the population of the province that provides natural gas to rest of the country, never listened to what they say and call them traitors if they raise their voice about all this. Yes, they deserved to be killed. No trail, off with his head! Even Ajmal Kassab got a trail in India!
The reason why we have such strong militant movements in KP and Baluchistan is the military solution to political problems we faced during our history. What is the difference between a mob killing two kids in Sialkot on suspicion of dakaiti and a mob killing people in Baluchistan on suspicion of being at war with the State? Please go ask the mothers and sisters of the 'missing persons' in Baluchistan and they would let you know loud and clear.
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
You intentionally or intentionally skipped Lal Masjid people's "motive to fight state"
Secondly, you dont fight with arms, rockets and blowing bombs and killing "non balochis" in Quetta and around for your rights. Doctors, Teachers etc who were getting killed on roads of Quetta, school etc had basic human right, i.e RIGHT TO LIVE and sorry but Bhugti and his group gave away right to live by killing other people just like other criminals. He was NO better than Altaf Hussan.
He might have been pushed into it but it was his choice to pick up weapon. Baloch sardars (including bugti) getting millions of $ every years and not passing on the wealth to poors has equal part to play in this ordeal too.
anyways, I am done for the thread unless something useful can come out of it .. !
Forgive my ignorance, but please enlighten me WHY Bugti and Lal Masjid people were fighting the state?
You keep a province in utter poverty for decades, do not give them their due share of national wealth, do not bother about the conditions of people living there, don't provide natural gas to the population of the province that provides natural gas to rest of the country, never listened to what they say and call them traitors if they raise their voice about all this. Yes, they deserved to be killed. No trail, off with his head! Even Ajmal Kassab got a trail in India!
The reason why we have such strong militant movements in KP and Baluchistan is the military solution to political problems we faced during our history. What is the difference between a mob killing two kids in Sialkot on suspicion of dakaiti and a mob killing people in Baluchistan on suspicion of being at war with the State? Please go ask the mothers and sisters of the 'missing persons' in Baluchistan and they would let you know loud and clear.