Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
The one good thing Musharraf did was to clear the hornet's nest of Lal Masjid kharijis.
This is the kind of language those extremist morons understand. Ch. Shujaat tried negotiations but they were bound to fail. ان کی گھٹی میں تشدد بھرا ہے
It was turning out to be a violent rebellion. This was bound to happen.
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
Yes they were innocent women and chilren there.. I don't care about the real culprits or evil-so called religious leaders. Try not to mix the issues and stick to that event.
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
Yes they were innocent women and chilren there.. I don't care about the real culprits or evil-so called religious leaders. Try not to mix the issues and stick to that event.
They were rebels. Everyone knew that the operation is going to be started. If they did not leave the rebellion center then it was their fault.
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
They were rebels. Everyone knew that the operation is going to be started. If they did not leave the rebellion center then it was their fault.
Can anyyou quote some news references of women and children dying? As far as I know, many of it was mere propaganda from Taliban apologists.
Many conflicting reports swirled around the incident and it is difficult to determine the truth of these given the very sensitive political nature of the event; the actual number of casualties still cannot be verified independently.
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
You forgot to read the top part of that site which says it is disputed. No one in right mind would support rebels. Not everyone including men, women and children was a rebel. Killing of hostages in that case cannot be justified. Actual number does not mean anything here. Search the topic better and make up your mind based on all available info.
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
Neither I was there nor possibly you.
What if they were held inside against their wishes?
Would you bomb a bank if people inside are held hostage by robbers?
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
[note] Avoid personal attacks[/note]
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
You forgot to read the top part of that site which says it is disputed. No one in right mind would support rebels. Not everyone including men, women and children was a rebel. Killing of hostages in that case cannot be justified. Actual number does not mean anything here. Search the topic better and make up your mind based on all available info.
It is disputed because the claims of Lal Masjid kharijis were never confirmed.
Every woman present inside the temple was a rebel. They knew who they were supporting and why.
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
What if they were held inside against their wishes?
And how many such "innocent" people were killed? Can you give a number?
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
It is disputed because the claims of Lal Masjid kharijis were never confirmed. Every woman present inside the temple was a rebel. They knew who they were supporting and why.
You need to answer what I wrote with question marks first.
What is the difference between you and terrorists who kill innocents believing this kind of non-sense?
And how many such "innocent" people were killed? Can you give a number?
Read my post above. You missed it again. Number does not matter.
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
Yes they were innocent women and chilren there.. I don't care about the real culprits or evil-so called religious leaders. Try not to mix the issues and stick to that event.
It is lie that there were women and children left in lal-building. That is what Musharraf government always said and that is logically believable too. Musharraf government also pointed at number of graves holding bodies of lal-building terrorists. Kharjees say that each grave has many bodies. Anyhow, if you do not believe on what Musharraf government said but believe on what Kharjees claim, then why don’t you answer one simple question without twisting?
Simple question is: If kharjees are not Liars and telling truth then why they are not going to court on this issue, asking court to get graves of lal-building dead opened up? Can you answer?
Re: Musharraf Apologizing for his mistakes.
Those Lal Masjid TERRORISTS used brainwashed women and children as shields. Pakistan Army told them to leave, many did but some were used as human shields to those terrorist cowards.
and to reach those handful of terrorists, army had no choice but to remove the shield by killing dozens of innocent (as I read by your comment, I see that their only crime was that they were brainwashed) women and children. Which genius commander came up with that plan?
And dont forget that Mushi's own ally, his own religious minister, ijaz ul haq cried after lal masjid incident because he clearly saw what went wrong.
Also the last minute deal that did not even go through. While religious leaders (as mediators) were in talk with the govt, army opened the fire.
Point is, mushi was obeying his orders from the supreme powers, it was not about killing terrorists, it was about making his masters happy.
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
Two days ago one poor and old Rickshaw driver of Lahore said;
Sadaqat Kay Dushman Hamaqat kay Hami
Ajab Man Kay Lo...n say pala para hay
صداقت کے دشمن ، حماقت کے حامی
عجب ماں کے لو ...ں سے پالا پڑا ہے
This is quite true for everyone leading us in every field.
Re: Musharraf Apologizing for his mistakes.
and to reach those handful of terrorists, army had no choice but to remove the shield by killing dozens of innocent (as I read by your comment, I see that their only crime was that they were brainwashed) women and children. Which genius commander came up with that plan?
And dont forget that Mushi's own ally, his own religious minister, ijaz ul haq cried after lal masjid incident because he clearly saw what went wrong.
Also the last minute deal that did not even go through. While religious leaders (as mediators) were in talk with the govt, army opened the fire.
Point is, mushi was obeying his orders from the supreme powers, it was not about killing terrorists, it was about making his masters happy.
Sorry but they gave them many chances. There were thousands of women and children in that complex. Almost all of them were let out. Total deathtoll from Lal Masjid was around 84 killed of which 14 were innocent women and children.
Its sad but you have to make tough choices.
I see nothing wrong with what Pakistan did.
A message needed to be send to Terrorists that Pakistan cannot be hijacked and its rule circumvented as they pleased.
Its exactly this kind of accommodating and weak leadership which has led Pakistan to become a bastion of International Terrorism much like Jordan in 1970.
But Jordan took out the PLO and other factions in Black September....I wish Pakistan would have the balls to do it as well
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
i think lal masjid operation was absolutely essential to purge out the terrorists. and yes they were terrorizing people in the heart of islamabad right under the government's nose with their moral policing, kidnappings and occupation of the library etc. if action had not been taken against them, they would have only become emboldened with time as they were already. besides it was not that people in the so called masjid were killed without any warning. they were implored to cease their activities by even religious scholars, then asked to surrender by the government and only those who refused to do so in the end were targeted.
Re: Musharraf Apologizing for his mistakes.
and to reach those handful of terrorists, army had no choice but to remove the shield by killing dozens of innocent (as I read by your comment, I see that their only crime was that they were brainwashed) women and children. Which genius commander came up with that plan?
And dont forget that Mushi's own ally, his own religious minister, ijaz ul haq cried after lal masjid incident because he clearly saw what went wrong.
Also the last minute deal that did not even go through. While religious leaders (as mediators) were in talk with the govt, army opened the fire.
maybe Ijaz ul Haq was crying because he realized he was partly responsible for what happened. had he not personally intervened to have the retard mullah released from jail when he was caught smuggling weapons into the city... perhaps the fiasco would have ended a long time ago.
[quote]
Point is, mushi was obeying his orders from the supreme powers, it was not about killing terrorists, it was about making his masters happy.
[/QUOTE]
who are this mythical masters and what would they get out of this? it is amazing how much even the supposedly educated class believes in conspiracy theories.
you have docaits holed up in a place holding the city hostage... and people would have no problem with the police storming and killing the docaits and their supporters. this is the same country where alleged docaits have been burned alive more than once to popular acclaim from educated Pakistanis.
but slap some facial hair on the same docaits... and call them moulvi docaits... and all of a sudden, everything is a conspiracy... we need to negotiate with them... because they're our brothers... and if we kill them it's because of our masters... it's because of the evil kufaar... evil USA...
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
How much money he looted which he is spending the world over.
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
This story of hostages being held against their wishes, was propagated by Taliban apologists to somehow stop the operation against Lal building.
http://www.pakistan.tv/videos-lal-masjid-jamia-hafsa-talibaat-were-[Yd2jwzLaxu8].cfm
“hum logon ko yarghamal nahin banaya gaya tha”
“hum apni khushi se rahe hue the”
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
That is not what Ejazul Haq said or Govt reportedly said in second link.
“The government has said that up to 450 women and children are being held hostage by a core of about 60 hardened militants leading the fight.”
The point here is that these militants were absolutely wrong but those who were trapped were either brainwashed or even simply were taken as hostages.
Your link does not work but it does not matter.
Re: Musharraf apologizing for his mistakes.
Well, they were WRONG. There were no hostages. They were staying inside out of their own will. That's what those women said when they came out.
All people who were killed were terrorists or terrorism supporters.
Action against those kharijis was necessary.