This is exactly my point. Being aware of and willing to live with the consequences. You don't care about what others think but OP does not feel that way (see quotes in blue below). Since OP does not want to deal with a backlash from her in-laws and/or her husband, then she should not do it b/c again, SHE will the one dealing with it. And unlike you, she cares about what her husband/in-laws think.
Even if OP sends something anonymously.....if in-laws/husband find out that someone sent that information, how will OP make sure that they don't suspect her? I imagine that the information about BIL's GF is a family matter and the entire desi community is not aware of it. All OP's in-laws and husband have to do is think about who knew about BIL's GF, who knew how to contact's BIL's wife in Pakistan, and who is the most likely person to go behind their back. With inside family information like this, it doesn't take a genius to narrow down the short list of people who would do this and had all the necessary information to carry out the plan. What if OP's husband asks her directly if she was the anonymous sender? Is she willing to lie to her husband and keep up with the lie for the rest of her life? Is she a convincing liar?
Again, nothing wrong with doing the right thing. But we need to stop pretending that it does not have negative consequences. OP needs to be fully aware of the consequences and be ok with dealing with them if/when they happen.
It's not that I don't care what they think, it's about what's at stake here. What would happen if she goes against her husband's and inlaws' wishes? They will get angry and that's pretty much it unless they are super zaalim and threaten her. I am sure she can predict her inlaws' and husband's reaction. However, if she doesn't tell the wife about this girlfriend of his, then three lives are getting ruined. Ignoring this causes a bigger chaos but just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean you should close your eyes and pretend nothing is wrong.
I don't agree that the girl is better off in the west. I am from Pakistan and v have a very very good support system with family friends servants. Life is actually quite good if your family is in a stable position. I would be devastated if I had to leave all that and then contend with an unfaithful husband and live with his enabling family. No matter how confident she will be away from everyone and everything she knows and loves
I have had two friends marry someone in the states, divorce, go back to pak and get married again. They are both very happy now.
It would be much harder to get divorced and establish yourself or live in a foreign country without close friends and family.
Taboo or not, chances to remarry are more back home.
I just hope she has the courage to take the right decision now and not think everything will be okay once she moves here. The guy is a looser and he has a long way to go. She is going to have it tuff either way. (I am surprised her parents let her marry someone who is 30 with no job or schooling. Living in a foreign country shouldn't be treated as a qualification)
I agree. I have several friends who went abroad divorced and came back. All are happily married with kids MA. 2 of them got divorced before moving and are ecstatic they dodged a bullet. 1 is engaged and the other will b soon IA. Going abroad is not every Pakistani s.top priority
I have had two friends marry someone in the states, divorce, go back to pak and get married again. They are both very happy now.
It would be much harder to get divorced and establish yourself or live in a foreign country without close friends and family.
Taboo or not, chances to remarry are more back home.
Did those two friends obtain landed status/residency in the USA before they headed back to re-marry?
I just hope she has the courage to take the right decision now and not think everything will be okay once she moves here. The guy is a looser and he has a long way to go. She is going to have it tuff either way. (I am surprised her parents let her marry someone who is 30 with no job or schooling. Living in a foreign country shouldn't be treated as a qualification)
You're right...living in a foreign country shouldn't be treated as a qualification. But the sad reality is that it is often a bigger qualifier than anything else for some classes in Pakistan.
She is going to have it tough either way.....might as well endure difficulties for the greater reward. (And no, I'm not suggesting that milking the guy or his family for their money or property is the greater reward. But a future in a country where there are significantly more opportunities may be.)
I don't agree that the girl is better off in the west. I am from Pakistan and v have a very very good support system with family friends servants. Life is actually quite good if your family is in a stable position. I would be devastated if I had to leave all that and then contend with an unfaithful husband and live with his enabling family. No matter how confident she will be away from everyone and everything she knows and loves
It all depends on what you consider to be "quite good".
People aspire to different things. Doesn't make anyone right or wrong.
Perhaps she will be away from everything she knows and loves....but maybe she would learn quickly....maybe she would be able to bring those she loves closer to her in the future....who knows?
Meaning that I would have looked into things into his life, his family, his behaviour etc. I would have done my research before ending things. I wouldn’t have ended things because of an anonymous email. I would have made sure that I was making the right decision, whatever the decision had been.
I would NEVER have tried to “change” him, I don’t believe that people like that can be “changed”.
It all depends on what you consider to be "quite good".
People aspire to different things. Doesn't make anyone right or wrong.
Perhaps she will be away from everything she knows and loves....but maybe she would learn quickly....maybe she would be able to bring those she loves closer to her in the future....who knows?
Yeah right. Throwing someone in the deep end. I believe 10/10 times they would drown. By quite good I mean just that. Life in Pakistan isn't terrible like some people imagine. And also life abroad isn't all roses. I hope this girl's family get some sense. They are throwing their daughter off of a cliff and they won't even be there to catch her.
Yeah right. Throwing someone in the deep end. I believe 10/10 times they would drown. By quite good I mean just that. Life in Pakistan isn't terrible like some people imagine. And also life abroad isn't all roses. I hope this girl's family get some sense. They are throwing their daughter off of a cliff and they won't even be there to catch her.
I disagree. And I do so because I have seen more than one example first hand of women that came from middle to upper class lives in Karachi, married someone in Canada and within a few months, for whatever reasons were separated and moved out to live on their own. They made it. (And neither of the two that I know took alimony or support payments or any portion of the husband's property that pre-existed their arrival.)
They got jobs/careers and are living fulfilling lives right now. At least one of them has even managed to sponsor her parents as well.
Nobody is saying that life abroad is all roses....but to some, it may be better than the issues that they would face as divorcees back home.
As for the family getting some sense....think about it....they are from a different generation and likely haven't seen any social structure other than the one they live in.....one that condemns a woman to the rating of second class citizen if she is no longer "pure". As much as we want to believe that mentalities have changed and people have grown, the narrow-minded still outnumber the enlightened over there. Such parents will have no visibility on the struggles that she would have to face abroad but they will have full view and therefore fear of what she will live with there after a two week marriage ends no matter who calls it off. They may not see it as throwing her off a cliff, rather a springboard opportunity.
I know prospects for some divorced girls are good in Pakistan but that's not the case for all. It seems that the upper/middle class is more 'forgiving' of divorce. Her family is not very well off, and she is the youngest of 5 sisters. My in laws, for their own pride and showing off practically forced them to host a wedding they couldn't afford. The girl is now working, but I don't think her education/experience translates here. She would definitely need to go back to school. I know my oldest sil had mentioned to her before about doing a masters in Pakistan so that would be recognized as a bachelors here but she insisted that she wasn't interested in anymore schooling. It could have been that she was saving face, and her father couldn't afford to send to school for a masters, but I don't know. Basically what I'm trying to say is that th unfortunate reality is that she would be socially better off here. I'm not saying she has to stay with her husband to be better off; even if she divorces him and decides to live her own life here, she would be better off. My in laws are not bad people. I know what they are doing in this instance is very wrong, but they know what her standing would be in Pakistan if she doesn't come here and gets divorced. But even if she divorces my Bil when she is here, she unfortunately won't get any spousal support payments (as he doesn't have a job - even at the age of 30 he lives off my in laws, who are financially supported mostly by my husband), she won't get any portion of any property as the house they live is in mine and my husbands name, and I have no idea what her haq mehr was, but I don't think it was a large enough amount for her to support herself for even a few months. I do know that my in laws would not request any of the jewelry back the gave her, they would tell her to keep it if she did leave my Bil.
In the end, I have decided to not say anything. I do feel bad for her, but at the same time I feel like she herself was given fair warning about her husbands behavior (he doesn't talk to her or keep in touch with her at all) and the one time he did talk to her, he told her he wants a divorce. She knows basically what she is coming to. Also, I mentioned before, she had disappeared from social media, but as soon as she got notice that her visa was approved, she started posting tons of pictures of her out having fun with her friends. I feel like that is her way of showing that now that she has her visa, she is confident again, and almost like she has won....I know that doesn't make sense to you guys, but I know her and I know my in laws. She was feeling defeated when she basically had no relationship with her husband, but now that she has the visa, my in laws are all almost begging her to come, so she has the upper hand now.
Thank you all for your answers and advice. I may revisit the situation in a few weeks, but for now I'm going to stay out of it.
Out of curiousity how was her visa even approved if he doesnt work or anything?! Doesnt he have to prove he can support her so she can come over or maybe jts different here in the UK.
If both are burying their head in the sand and dont want to take the first move there isnt much you can do or say then. Lets hope when she does move over you all as a family support her to become independent and allow her to live a better life. Your inlaws may not be bad people but they are to blame for forcing this relationship knowing their son isnt really mature.
Out of curiousity how was her visa even approved if he doesnt work or anything?! Doesnt he have to prove he can support her so she can come over or maybe jts different here in the UK.
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I’m guessing here because I don’t know the process for the US but in Canada you don’t have to have a job to sponsor your spouse. Apparently there is some law that prevents “zalim zamana” from keeping spouses apart.
As for the inlaws helping her out…I suspect they’re actually hoping that their son will “automagically” fall in love with his na’ee nawaili dulhan when she arrives and some sort of divine intervention will help to turn his heart in her favour. Their last resort will likely be guilt…zamana kya kahay ga? Haye hamari izzat, etc., etc.
Ahh in the UK its all changed you need to be working and earning and have savings but chalo this zalim zamana seems to have the upper hand
We had a case like this in the khandaan the girl was very young when she came here 12 years later after giving birth to a full term stillborn baby she took talaaq from her husband. All their married life he was in and out the house and had countless women on the go. Clearly what broke the camels back is when he bought his pregnant girlfriend married her ann she gave birth to thier child while his first wife lost theirs. Its such a shame. Shes only 28! And came here when she was like 15 married her cousin usual her parents and inlaws kept sayingkou baatnahi its ghar ki baat its family blah blah!
Out of curiousity how was her visa even approved if he doesnt work or anything?! Doesnt he have to prove he can support her so she can come over or maybe jts different here in the UK.
If both are burying their head in the sand and dont want to take the first move there isnt much you can do or say then. Lets hope when she does move over you all as a family support her to become independent and allow her to live a better life. Your inlaws may not be bad people but they are to blame for forcing this relationship knowing their son isnt really mature.
They live in Canada. The person doing the sponsoring doesn't have to have any income source.
Yes, they are to blame for the situation the couple is in. My mil thought getting him married to a girl back home would straighten him out, but it hasn't done anything to change any of his behavior. At the same time, her parents are not completely blameless either. They just said yes as soon as my mil approached them without finding anything out about my Bil. I know they are old family friends, but that does not mean anything. They should have asked people about him, found out about his education and work before saying yes.
They are trying the guilt trip, and it hasn’t worked so far, so they are banking on your first theory that everything will change when she comes here.
I remember when we were in Pakistan for the wedding, it was the day of the mehndi. I walked out of the front gate to go to the car, and there he was on the phone talking to someone in hushed tones. I was close enough to hear part of the conversation. You know you can just tell when a person is talking to someone of the opposite gender…and based on what I heard I told my husband to talk to him. My husband said that he approached him and said that he still had time now to change his mind because if the person you are always talking to on the phone is more than just a friend, you are ruining people’s lives. He told my husband that he was ok with getting married to this girl and he was just talking to his friend. So if he was still at it with his gf during his wedding festivities, what makes anyone think it will be different now.
They are trying the guilt trip, and it hasn't worked so far, so they are banking on your first theory that everything will change when she comes here.
I remember when we were in Pakistan for the wedding, it was the day of the mehndi. I walked out of the front gate to go to the car, and there he was on the phone talking to someone in hushed tones. I was close enough to hear part of the conversation. You know you can just tell when a person is talking to someone of the opposite gender....and based on what I heard I told my husband to talk to him. My husband said that he approached him and said that he still had time now to change his mind because if the person you are always talking to on the phone is more than just a friend, you are ruining people's lives. He told my husband that he was ok with getting married to this girl and he was just talking to his friend. So if he was still at it with his gf during his wedding festivities, what makes anyone think it will be different now.
He is a jerk. If I were you, I would tell the wife everything and let her decide what she wants to do. That's pretty much all you can do.
I agree with theorist. Though wife knows he wants a divorce she doesnt know about his infidelity. I dont know if its easier to cope in a loveless marriage or infidel marriage?
They are trying the guilt trip, and it hasn't worked so far, so they are banking on your first theory that everything will change when she comes here.
I remember when we were in Pakistan for the wedding, it was the day of the mehndi. I walked out of the front gate to go to the car, and there he was on the phone talking to someone in hushed tones. I was close enough to hear part of the conversation. You know you can just tell when a person is talking to someone of the opposite gender....and based on what I heard I told my husband to talk to him. My husband said that he approached him and said that he still had time now to change his mind because if the person you are always talking to on the phone is more than just a friend, you are ruining people's lives. He told my husband that he was ok with getting married to this girl and he was just talking to his friend. So if he was still at it with his gf during his wedding festivities, what makes anyone think it will be different now.
Wow. Just when you think you've read it all...this is a new low.
The guy's a mess and in no position for any kind of mature relationship, let alone a sacred one like marriage. If he cannot respect his wife even during their mehndi/wedding(!!!!) festivities without talking to his 'gf' on the side then coming to Canada for her will be nothing short of inviting poison in her life. And even if she divorces him, because of his lack of balls when he couldnt say no to marriage, he will pretty much have ended putting up the much (wrongly) stigmatized divorce tag on her. But better than ruining her life.
I dont know if its easier to cope in a loveless marriage or infidel marriage?
Infidelity is a symptom of a bigger problem: laxity in moral values or loose character. The bil is a coward, he's selfish. I question how far he's gone with his gf. Has he slept with her? If so, then add fornication to the lost. Has he slept with his gf while being married? If so, then that's adultery. That's A LOT for his wife to deal with. OP needs to urge her husband to fear Allah and do what's right by this girl. This dilemma is not just his brother's personal business. It will eventually become the whole family's business when the girl comes to live with him. When her parents learn of the truth and are heartbroken and will "thoo thoo " on you guys, it will become a family matter. And since your husband and his mom and sisters are all conspiring to remain silent about this.....then it's not just his brother's personal business. It involves the whole family cuz they are all involved in wrong-doing. It is this girl's haq or right to know of her husband's infidelity. Give this girl her haq so that she can discuss the situation with her family and make a better informed devision about her future.
My Bil disappeared from home for weeks and wouldn't pick up phone calls or respond to messages. I have no idea how, but one of my nands found out where his girlfriend works and went to see her (she works in a retail store, so going in to talk to her is as easy as walking into the store). She just walked up to her, introduced herself and told her that Bil is married, has been for almost 2 years, and showed her some of their wedding pictures. We don't know what ensued between Bil and girlfriend but a few days later he came back home. His parents told him they were buying him a ticket and he was going to pick up his wife. He kept saying that fine he would bring her here but he wants to tell her about his girlfriend so she can decide what she wants to do. He said they were no longer together but he doesn't want it coming out later (my husband told me he was sure he was just saying this to make his wife divorce him and transfer the guilt to her). Everyone in the family insisted that he didn't say anything to her and just start fresh. Anyway, he was refusing to give his passport to my in laws so they couldn't book the ticket.
Finally my nands husband (who everyone respects a lot - so Bil couldn't even fight with him) sat him down and asked him point blank - do you want to be with your wife or not? If not, we will get you divorced. But you need to make a decision and stick to it. But if you want to stay with her just start fresh. Bil said yes, I want to make it work with her.
Ok great! Everyone is happy! Bil tells mil he wants to go to Pakistan alone (without mil), which is very weird. Everyone knows that Bil can't face his in laws alone or won't stay with any relatives alone either. But he told mil he wants to go alone. My husband told my in laws, he is not going to go. Don't buy a ticket, don't get this girls hopes up. My mil insisted saying he has changed. She bought him a ticket and his wife a ticket. Told sil in Pakistan that her husband is coming to get her. Told her to quit her job and wrap everything up.
3 days before he is supposed to leave he disappears. Won't answer phone calls or texts. The day before he is supposed to leave he messages one of my nands and says his girlfriend forgave him, he is moving in with her and he is not going to Pakistan. He also told her that he told his wife about his girlfriend. No one know what thto wife's response was as he didn't tell my nand and the wife isn't talking to anyone.
My in laws keep trying to speak with the girls family but they are not answering their calls. They even go as far as to pick up the phone and hang up without saying anything. It's totally understandable that they are pissed. They told a mutual friend of my in laws that they want my in laws and Bil to come to Pakistan and speak with them to resolve this and they want their daughter to go with her husband. What????
When my husband told me this information I said there is no way they know exactly what is going on. Why would they send their daughter if they know that Bil is living with his gf and has no intention of maintaining a relationship with his wife? They are either in denial or in a very desperate situation that they would be willing to send their daughter to a loveless unfaithful marriage.
