Moderation

Re: Moderation

Sharia is part of Islam... I don't know what other sharia your talking about.

Hardcore? Burqa is culture not Islam. Modesty is Islam. Modesty is Fundamental. Fundamentalism = Extremism (that's the west's definition) - therefore you should be proud to be an Extremist.

Why are you ashamed? are you not a soldier of Allah?

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^^ No cricketplaya, I'm NOT a soldier of Allah. I don't plan to wage any wars (or support it in anyway) against the Kafir. I'm a Hindu-Muslim mix, I don't judge people based on their faith, and I respect all faiths.

NBN, I understand that you did not choose to come live in the West but now that you've realized what a curropt Kafir civilization this is, you really should leave and go back to the muslim world. As long as there are muslims like you in the west, we cannot really blame the Nationalists over here when they hate you or ask you to leave, I would be doing the same.. " you come froma 3rd world country u liva here ad u diss at our lifestyle call us infidels talk abt sharia etc etc..go back to your muslim world".. I would be saying the same....

Re: Moderation


Yes but you have to establish what is it you are free to do, or rather what is it you cannot do. In God's system, emphasis is placed on family and family values, so anything breaking that element down is not allowed (including polygomy). Other than that, there is no compulsion in religion.


I believe the Quran is very direct about homosexuality and that it is wrong...


Yes but cite this information... let me do that for you:

4:15,16
والتي يأتين الفحشة من نسائكم فاستشهدوا عليهن أربعة منكم فإن شهدوا فأمسكوهن في البيوت حتى يتوفيهن الموت أو يجعل الله لهن سبيلا
والذان يأتينها منكم فءاذوهما فإن تابا وأصلحا فأعرضوا عنهما إن الله كان توابا رحيما
And those women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates their lives, or God makes for them a way out.
And the two men who commit it from amongst you, then you shall punish them. If they repent and amend, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Merciful.

Again, homosexuals are not to be killed according to this verse, but given a chance to mend their ways...


Seems ok to me... there is no compulsion here either according to the Quran.


Adultry is a crime in that someone does get hurt through this action. A spouse/parent/child cheated upon is a crime in my books and that is how Allah sees it too IMO. Cheating someone is harming and as such adultry is to be punished if proven. Also, a muslim society and God's system also depends on family structure and families become unstable or break down in presence of adultry. According to the Quran, the punishment is 100 lashes, and not death by stoning.

24:2
الزانية والزاني فاجلدوا كل وحد منهما مائة جلدة ولا تأخذكم بهما رأفة في دين الله إن كنتم تؤمنون بالله واليوم الاءخر وليشهد عذابهما طائفة من المؤمنين
The adulteress and the adulterer you shall whip each of them a hundred lashes. Do not be swayed by pity from carrying out GOD's law, if you truly believe in GOD and the Last Day. And let a group of believers witness their penalty.


If they claim to be muslim they should at least fear their Maker and get married. I mean comeon, having children?


Actually there is both, individual rights and duties to society. Society cannot compell but an indivual (muslim) has to contribute to the system... I mean he/she has submitted to the Message of God and submission is not partial.

Re: Moderation

moderate and acceptable is anyone not trying kill or force others like some of the well known groups which focus on political agendas. spreading hate is also unacceptable and not islam. otherwise its all good to practice as much as people want.

my two p's worf

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Before continuing with the convo, decide if your a Muslim or a Hindu.

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***Had problem with font check post below...


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No man... I said homosexuality is wrong ... I guess the words are sequenced that way lol woosh

Re: Moderation

Yes but you have to establish what is it you are free to do, or rather what is it you cannot do. In God's system, emphasis is placed on family and family values, so anything breaking that element down is not allowed (including polygomy). Other than that, there is no compulsion in religion.

Well in a state Allahs rules are applied and as a Muslim you have to obey them...the system is clear enough...your individual freedoms are your mubah permissbale issues and your mandoob recommended actions...there are certain things which are obligatory such as paying your zakat and then there is haram the impermissable which say limit your individual freedoms...so for instance a Muslim stealing for instance...its a fairly clear setup to me...

I believe the Quran is very direct about homosexuality and that it is wrong...

Ok im intrigued now...are you saying the Quran is wrong?...cos if your Muslim then id be careful that you dont delve into shirk...if your a Muslim and believe the Quran to be the word of God then you should take everything in it to be correct and yeah as you quoted they have three days to repent otherwsie the punishment is death...now as a Muslim thats what the creator said so you should believe that...Allah knows better than man...but obviously in a Western society where the emphasis is on individual freedoms of a consensual nature backward behaviour like homosexuality can be justified...lol using that same logic someone can justify sleeping with their mother...now would you say thats wrong?...they are both consenting adults?...

Seems ok to me... there is no compulsion here either according to the Quran.

When you say soicety is a group of individuals then you allow deviance in your society based on backward definitions of harm...i mean you can legalise prostituion using this viewpoint as it is individuals consenting...Islam however would see this is damaging to society and would forbid it not to protect individuals but to protect society as whole...

Adultry is a crime in that someone does get hurt through this action. A spouse/parent/child cheated upon is a crime in my books and that is how Allah sees it too IMO. Cheating someone is harming and as such adultry is to be punished if proven. Also, a muslim society and God's system also depends on family structure and families become unstable or break down in presence of adultry. According to the Quran, the punishment is 100 lashes, and not death by stoning.

Adultery however is not a crime in Western society...if i cheated on my wife i wouldnt go to jail even though i have caused her mental harm through my actions...Islam hoowever does deal with the issue as you outline...

If they claim to be muslim they should at least fear their Maker and get married. I mean comeon, having children?


Im talking about an actual brother and sister having sex with each other and justifying this incestuous relationship by saying its their individual freedom as consenting adults to do so...in France and some places incest is actually legal already based on this viewpoint...


Actually there is both, individual rights and duties to society. Society cannot compell but an indivual (muslim) has to contribute to the system... I mean he/she has submitted to the Message of God and submission is not partial.


Actually the West encourages no duty to society...you are an individual and your role is to seek as much pleasure as you can in your only life...selfishness and individualsim are inherent of such a system...


Islam gives you your individual rights but tells Muslims that their basis for living is to worship Allah and Allah alone and therefore they will contribute to society as this will please Allah...also the idea that Allah is omnipotent and all seeing is enough of a deterrant to not commit crime or atleast confess to it...


In the West as long as you dont get caught you have got away with it...In Islam Allah is always watching you so you know you will never get away with any crime you commit...

A much superior system but that is expected when you are dealing with the system of your creator...comparing it to syste,s devised by fallible people like you an i bear no comparison*...*
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Cricketplaya.. I'm both muslim and hindu, and im none of them.. get it?

Re: Moderation

Agreed, but if you are a muslim… rules to obey Allah cannot apply to non-muslims under “Laa Ikraaha fi Diin” … keep in mind that they should not overstep the family values… like sacrificing children and adultry is obviously not allowed

Only for a short while :rotfl: read what I wrote again… let me rephrase what I wrote; I said homosexuality is wrong according to the Quran. Read carefully bro :slight_smile:

Yeah see, doing stuff like legalizing prostitution is not moderation and is not Islamic… but as such, the Talibanist ragime is not Islamic too IMO since there was no moderation. It was kill kill kill and force force force all the way…

Yes it does… but is it followed? Why stone to death when the Quran says 100 lashes, and even that is considered a grave penalty/shame?

And as such, the only thing as a constitution of a muslim state can be the Quran and no man-made/compiled book (including shariah).

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I thought moderation in Islamic meant simply not going beyond the limit set by Allah, neither falling short of it... like for ex: someone who decides to never work and spend all day praying... thats like OD..its too much of an extreme... and the one that falls short is the one who doesnt even do nafil or regular prayers.... the moderate one would be the one that follows the ways of our Messenger (pbuh) and the Khulafaa al Rashidoon.... no??

This is confusing...

Re: Moderation


Sabrya Islam is not keeping measure of only taking 300 calories per day... it is about your overall attitude (every aspect) mannerisms, conduct, patience, managing your lifestyle, and governing and administring a state...

Re: Moderation

Really I just dont get it.

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Nowhere in the Quran it prescribes death for homosexuality... the verse preceeding it speaks also of prostitution (and in a way lesbianism) and the punishment is confienment/jail and not death under any circumstances... For the death penalty you are depending on hadith. I do not accept that...

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"modernism" is just a pathetic term used to confuse people. Like you are just now. Just forget it and learn deen. That is all we need.

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Hypnotix2000...
Firstly i apologise for misconstruing what you wrote in regards to homosexuality...so we are in agreement on that...

Agreed, but if you are a muslim... rules to obey Allah cannot apply to non-muslims under "Laa Ikraaha fi Diin" ... keep in mind that they should not overstep the family values... like sacrificing children and adultry is obviously not allowed

My understanding of non Muslims in an Islamic state is they are free to practice their faith but not publicly...in public life they are bound by Islamic laws and in the privacy of their own homes they are free to do as they please...

So if they want to fornicate they can as long as its within the confines of their space...they wouldnt be bound by things like covering in front of mehram or anything like that but if in public life the women would be required to cover...

Yeah see, doing stuff like legalizing prostitution is not moderation and is not Islamic... but as such, the Talibanist ragime is not Islamic too IMO since there was no moderation. It was kill kill kill and force force force all the way...

Well actually it could be classed as moderate but couldnt be classed as Islamic...the Taliban didnt rule by Islam...they misapplied everything and Mullah Omar didnt actually say it was an Islamic state...he said it was Afghanistan and in Islam we dont recognise borders...the Taliban is a terrible example for Islam and since the destruction of the caliphate we have had no Islamic example...

Yes it does... but is it followed? Why stone to death when the Quran says 100 lashes, and even that is considered a grave penalty/shame?

Well it shouldnt be...only an Islamic state can execute the hudood and there is no Islamic state today...if it is being implemented...its a state ruled by Kufr a la Saudi which adds a few Islamic things to its Kuft system which in the end makes it a Kufr system...Whatever you add to poison it'll still be poison...

As for the lashes/stoning thing thats another debate and not one which i have knowledge on if anyone would like to help...

And as such, the only thing as a constitution of a muslim state can be the Quran and no man-made/compiled book (including shariah).

Correct to a degree in that we must use Quran and the Sunnah to decide things...they dont work exclusively of each other...from the Quran you know you have to pray and from the hadeeth you deduce how to pray...and as for new realities thats where you need sound scholars with high levels of ijtihad...what man made books do you speak of exactly?...

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I agree. I didnt think it would get this complicated :hayaa:

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He is speaking of ahadiths.

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Sabriya...
I agree with what Cricketplaya said...forget the term

Hypnotix2000...
Yeh i do have that understanding by hadeeth...do you reject the hadeeth or hadeeth in general...are you ehle-hadeeth?...

Re: Moderation


If there is no compulsion, then there is no compulsion... public or private. If it does not violate family values and does not cause disruption in administrative/governing affairs, then IMO the Quran does not prohibit it....


Modesty... not "cover"


No matter, they still called themselves "muslims" while they violated Islamic laws.


If Quran says lashes, then so it be... noone can change that to stoning (a Jewish custom) and this IS TRANSGRESSION!! Many sunnis and shias will disagree here but fellas, fear God before negating the Quran, if you are indeed muslim!


Hadith and Sunnah is contained within the Quran. Anything outside of the Quran is NOT acceptable IMO!