Moderation

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Moderation

Peace Crescent

However, having said that ... it is important to note that the media and the non-Muslims usually intend the meaning of moderation and modernisation to be transmutable, especially when it comes to Islam.

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Re: Moderation

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=250225

Peace All

Moderation is actually a good word with good connotations it is unfortunate people think the two words ‘moderate’ and ‘Muslim’ can go together.

One term weakens the other. It is about time we start to draw parallels between religious Muslims = moderate human being to face the media with.

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Re: Moderation

piety and kinaat is moderation.
biggest example - deen does not say that leave the world.
the bigger jihad is - balancing the two.
a lighter example: in kung- fu, the dangerous tactics of failing the opponent involve training
with the mental and physical restraint to use those tactics, in an intelligent way - otherwise one will end up hurting or being hurt - physically badly.
balance is the key.
mixing the energies in pre judgmental ways and holding on to biased fragments from before, actually makes things worse.
at the end, the accountability is to the Maker and not to the world.
thus, ideally, social adjustment, in the world that we as humans know of, comes with a resilient sense of improving one's practice in living by one's convictions.
religion and cultural values that are good, no one deliberately discounts,
but what ought to be despised is double standards.
dushwari

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Re: Moderation

This is very kind of you.

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Re: Moderation

[QUOTE]

A moderate is a sellout...he does the bits of Islam that the West encourage and he rejects the bits of Islam the West doesnt like

[/QUOTE]

But it is important to remember that being a moderate Muslim vs. having moderation in life are two different things.

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Re: Moderation

You can interpret it in many ways... but from the popular perception of MODERATE MUSLIMS.. they are muslims that reject any extremist ideologies (wahabi kinds) and try to 'adapt' to todays world.. keeping intact their islamic faith in whatever form/extent..

The debate regarding whther MODERATES are good or bad is useless.. since people hskhan mercenary or hyponotic wud probably agree that moderate islam is solution to extremist wahhabish perception of islam... and ppl like hareem and dawaidil will post 42199 quranic verses' translationsn in defence of what people call 'extremist hardcore islam'...

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Re: Moderation


mm.. ahaadeeth :)

Karachi WaloN
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Re: Moderation

there you have the defintion. jazakallah.

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Re: Moderation

oh yes that's right, you reject hadiths...

40 sayings of Holy Prophet (S) about Fatima Zahra (A)
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Re: Moderation


A moderate is not an extremist. An extremist is the kind farthest removed from the average. What Muslim wants to be the farthest removed from other Muslims?

~~~ Missing someone ~~~
31

Re: Moderation

See thats my point, what are we using as a reference point to define a moderate.

~~~ Missing someone ~~~
32

Re: Moderation

See I think you guys are confusing Moderation with Compromise... big difference... You cannot compromise with the Quranic message; if you do, you are either transgressing, or falling short.

i.e. you have to SUBMIT to it 100% to be muslim (not the title but the attribute), and have FAITH in it (not believe, but have faith in it) 100% to be mu'min (again, referring to the attribute).

NOTE deleted the word "called" from the sentence above.

I am not saying anyone who falls short or transgresses cannot be called Muslim (that was my mistake and hence the correction) ... as such, people who do believe in God (but are not muslim) are not bound for hell (in case someone gets the wrong impression) IMO

Oh well, either way my argument is screwedup up now ...sigh... sorry guys

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Re: Moderation

Seminole...
But thats the whole point...the western defnintion of someone who is extreme is actually a Muslim who practices his faith preoperly and has his beleifs in check...so its extreme to believe that the rule of God is superior to that of man...it is extreme to take the word of god over enlightened reason and fact...

The West defines what Islam is to Muslims...they want a secular Islam which believes in values of democracy which Islam doesnt. indiviudal freedoms which it doesnt and the soverignty of man over God which it doesnt...

Once you fit that Western defintion of Islam you are a moderate Muslim and therefore a 'good' Muslim whilst the actual good Muslims are seen as extreme cos they take their Islam from Allah not from the West...

Mara...
When moderate Muslims are discussed they discuss the above...

VedicIntellect...
You are correct...depending on the standpoint you take your opinion will reflect that...you believe in secularism and the western definition of Islam so you are more akin to seeing moderate as a good term whilst for myself its as negative as can be cos it is a complete mockery and compromise of the Islamic faith...

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Re: Moderation

NBN,
I do not necessarily agree with "indiviudal freedoms which it doesnt" but I may not have understood your point of view, so I am compelled to ask: Wat is it that you define as 'moderate' Islam. I am curious... please be as clear a you can (PM if needed)

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Re: Moderation

Here are some "Moderate Muslims" for you...
Warraq, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, Salman Rushdie, Tasleema Nasreen, Irshad Manji..etc

Wait! They're not even Muslim, so there you have it, there are no such people as "moderate" Muslims.

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Re: Moderation

Hypnotix2000...
In the West we have liberalism which says individuals are free to do as they please as long as they dont harm anyone else...

Whilst Muslims would say you are free to do whatever you please as long as you obey Allah...

So as an example homosexuals are exercising their indivudal freedom as consenting adults to do as they please...

Allah judges homosecuals differently and says it is impermissable based on his teachings...bothg have rules on freedoms but set different benchmarks...

Liberalism places emphasis on the individal and consent and gives no regard to society as such...Society is a group of individuals which mean its ok to be deviant as long as your not harming someone...

Even that is poorly defined...cheating on someone is harming them but is not treated as such in the West...in Islam this does count as harm to society and is clamped down on...

In the same way this German brother and sister justified their sexual relationship and even having children on the fact that they were two consenting adults and it was their individual freedom to do so...

What im getting at basically is Islam limits individuals by the rulings of Allah whilst the Western liberal way gives individuals freedom as long as they dont harm anyone...Islamic systems discount the idea of society being a group of individuals but see society as a whole...

Both just have different benchmarks...one is Allah one is based on man...so i know which one i think is superior...

I hope that helps...

Taking care of moms
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Re: Moderation


I have not studied much about the others but Manji and Rushdi don't have a clue what Islam is. From what I understand, they do seem sense something, but don't know what it is...

Not to rain on their parade but I'd like to have a "one on one" with them and then we'll decide what is it that they know :)

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Re: Moderation

If you read her work, lol, there is contradiction after contradiction....you just want to walk away and get a doctor to see her mental situation. Anyways, she is funded by the evangelicals and she is a lesbian.

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Re: Moderation

Cricketplaya, those people (Rushdie, Manji, Ali etc) are not moderate muslims.. they have rejected Islam and now criticize it from a secular point of view..

NBN...Moderates are still believers in Islam, they're just not too excited about Sharia, Burqa, and other 'hardcore' 6th century muslim ideologies.. and they want to adapt and fit Islam to todays world without going nuts (like the ninja army is doing in Islamabad).. Anyway.. if you are such a strong supporter of pure Islamic values (sharia etc) and you criticize the west, why are you living in London? Are you a soldier of Allah trying to make London into Londonistan? a Part of the International Islamic Caliphate? The Dream of the Extremists? I hope not.. in which case you would be a hypocrate living in the West and yet dissing it..

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Re: Moderation

Cricketplaya...
To correct you they arent moderate Muslims in that they dont claim to be Muslim and actually claim to be murtad(apostates)...they show a hatred for Islam...

Moderate muslims claim to be Muslims and they are just misguided in their faith...its an unfair comparison...Moderate 'sellout' Muslims are more like the Muslim Council of Britian which puts reason and fact over the teachings of the Quran and speaks about Islamic democracies...

Vedic Intellect...
To a degree i agree with you...moderates believe in Islam but a flawed version of it and their Aqeedah is defined by whether they believe in the flawed version or are just sheep who do as they are told...

And as for me on a personal level...i believe in the caliphate definitely but i definitle ydont think it should be in London...God knows what El Mahajaroun and the like think they will achieve here...

And as for the whole hypocryte living in London...im not an immigrant...i was born here and i think its an extremely flawed system...thing is the Muslim countries arent actually any better and i reckon a lot worse...if there was a caliphate in place then i would leave no problem...a society that would encourage me to follow my faith rather than leave it is a much better option....