sister barbie, theres no point in you getting political or being swayed by the army of dajjal/iblees, and thus offering statements against poor defenceless villagers (muslims at that)
so who is this army of dajjal/blees that is swaying Barbie :)
PS: was it the poor defenceless villagers (muslims at that) who were blowing up people
PS2: and we dont have to talk taleban, before this topi drama sipah e sahaba and lashkar e jhangvi types existed..what excuses will we have for them?
Re: Moderate Muslim
Well with Zakat I believe there are some preconditions that apply. But I am not at all familiar with them so I can not comment on it.
Regarding searching this forum. Pat Robertson also has very vocal supporters and people who will defend him to his death. You can do a search for Stormfront which is a world wide group that supports white extremism and the supremacy of Christianity and they are worse than the Taliban. Stormfront recruits in computer games targeting young impressionable children. Hell I have had to deal with them in World of Warcraft when I play the game.
There will always be supporters of extremism and more importantly since they are the minority they are most vocal to make it appear that they are the majority.
But the difference is people do not make the distinction between them and themselves by calling themselves Moderate. Rather they state they do not follow the correct path of the faith and that they abuse it.
As for what I state on how they and I are different, I state that the Taliban abuse ignorance, poverty and anti-western sentiments for a politically motivated grab for power and the cloak it in the garb of Islam.
I don’t know.
PS: Stoppit dear if u couldn’t care less about the topic then u shouldn’t have made so many posts, I think X2 can speak for himself. I laauu u anyhow 
PPS: X2 and CM i suck at political conversations so enjoy urselves, I need to go make rotis.
Well with Zakat I believe there are some preconditions that apply. But I am not at all familiar with them so I can not comment on it.
Regarding searching this forum. Pat Robertson also has very vocal supporters and people who will defend him to his death. You can do a search for Stormfront which is a world wide group that supports white extremism and the supremacy of Christianity and they are worse than the Taliban. Stormfront recruits in computer games targeting young impressionable children. Hell I have had to deal with them in World of Warcraft when I play the game.
There will always be supporters of extremism and more importantly since they are the minority they are most vocal to make it appear that they are the majority.
But the difference is people do not make the distinction between them and themselves by calling themselves Moderate. Rather they state they do not follow the correct path of the faith and that they abuse it.
As for what I state on how they and I are different, I state that the Taliban abuse ignorance, poverty and anti-western sentiments for a politically motivated grab for power and the cloak it in the garb of Islam.
excellent answer...
just one clarification about my point about the extremism definition thing, its not about ppl supporting taleban, but more about people who dont like that term and want to give it their own definition, which as all fine and dandy but it poses certain issues.
I have many non muslim pals and the definition they have for extremist anything is not that they are extreme in following their religion, but they they are extremists (aka misguided nutjobs) who are muslim, just like there are extremists who are christians or jews or hindus or whatever. It does little to get in a discussion of semantics of what extremist means..
so in the example you gave of Pat Robertson or here is another real piece of work Fred Phelps..when I ask what ppl think of them they just say they are right winger extremist nut jobs, I just say yep so we have their kind as well..now separate from that it can be discussed if the term extremist is correct, but in that context its perfectly fine to correlate our nutjobs to their nutjobs as a frame of reference even if the term they use is not extremist but party animal or mickey mouse. the intent is to communicate. What is counter intuitive is to declare oneself as extremist or fundamentalist and then argue about the definition of the term :) two separate things and muddying the water does little.
Re: Moderate Muslim
Pls read: I could care less about trying to understand their definitions. I didn't say I could care less about giving you my opinion on why this in my mind is not a question to debate.
You clearly did not get the point that X2 was trying to make, so I'm quite happy to step in.
I did post again, which you have not replied to.
BBQ- no politics here, you will not really see me in politics section because I have no real interest in those. This is not politics but a question of semantics, terminologies, definitions, thats it. 
PS: watch out for the army of dajjal and iblees while making rotis…they may add oil into it and you wind up with parathas.
Re: Moderate Muslim
i do think its a religious crime to support the war on poor villagers but offer no justification for retribution from the villagers, and none at all for the pakistani sectarian groups.
but i'll stand by my initial comment, supporters of war on poor villagers are dajjal followers, by deception if you were deceived, and by freewill if your just bad
Re: Moderate Muslim
so that makes all pakistanis and afghans dajjal followers since they are not really doing anything to stop the war on poor villagers....good point. Thanks.
anyway, rather off topic which is sometimes expected but lets stay on topic here which was on defintitions. Its gets a little annoying when threads go off topic :)
Re: Moderate Muslim
this is related to topic because of its undertones. some scholars say 999 out of 1000 will be misguided (no need to thank me). ok granted this may not be the age of the dajjal, or it may be, but i think terms like moderate islam is a deceptive term in sending people off track in ones submission to the Allmighty (swt)
like the prohpet sallallahu alaihi wasallam is reported to have said in his last sermon: He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.
I did post again, which you have not replied to.
why would I bother replying if I feel like I'm talking to a wall? I did answer the question very clearly and said "their beliefs and practices are wayyy different than mine" and then u ask me the same question again... ??
You didn't answer my question either, when I asked again n again, how do u see this whole thing?
And why was this needed? vvvv
[QUOTE]
Read some Chomsky. It will help you to understand media, politics, how the two are intertwined and give you linguistic insight, which may help in some of your definition queries.
[/QUOTE]
No need to get excited. I will read Chomsky when I have the time but for now I was thinking some smart people here would be able to give this silly ol' girl an insight into this but oh well... this thread is now about media and politics.
This in ur mind is not a question to debate so fair enough, thats ur opinion and I respect it and hope that u respect mine too. G'luck.
Re: Moderate Muslim
There is no such thing....Your a Muslim if you believe "la illah illalah muhmamdur rasullah". Beyond that your are either a practicing Muslim, partially practicing Muslim, or a nonpracticing Muslim....Most people are parially Practicing Muslims.
Re: Moderate Muslim
Why did you quote something from outside this thread? The only one getting excited is you, from the very start of this thread. You do need to some knowledge of how words like 'moderate' or 'extremist' came about if you want to debate this.
I did not ask you the same question the again. I very accurately wrote what a non-muslim would ask in response to what you said. Would you just keep giving the same answer? Why don't you reply to those questions as they were put?
So you would give the bolded replies to the non-muslim who is asking you those questions? Do you think it would wash with them? Wouldn't they say, "Don't you believe in the same God? Pray in the same way? Have the same 5 pillars?"
Re: Moderate Muslim
very interesting thread indeed, can people please stop derailing it with theatrics. good stuff CM
Here's my very direct and simple answer: If you practice the 5 pillars of Islam, You are a muslim. If not, then ur not.
And Colourful eyes, one only needs to recite the Kalma and accept the 5 pillars to be Muslim from what I know. So yes its pretty much like a light switch.
Thats what I meant... isn't it true that all ur sins are washed away, the moment u recite the kalma and accept Islam? So thats all i was referring to... Kalma and 5 pillars of Islam are the only differences between me and a non-muslim. Dunno how that sounded disappointing.
BBC - I Don't follow **all **5 pillars of Islam so does tht make me a non Muslim becoz tht's what u where implying in ur first post?
CM - there's a difference in accepting the 5 pillars and not practicing them. So I don't practice all 5 pillars of Islam so what does tht make me a non muslim? Or say one year I don't pay my Zakat so for tht one year I'm not a Muslim? a bit like a light switch right? on...offf.....on.....off
I am excited??? Get this thought outta ur head gurlphirend .. I’ve kept my cool ALL the time! Like I’m not even annoyed or anything… I seriously don’t know how u r readin my posts. May be u should talk to some other posters more often then u’ll know what is referred to as getting excited.
About ur question:
XYZ: Do u not believe in the same God?
ME: Yes we do.
XYZ: Do u not pray in the same way?
ME: Yes we do.
XYZ: Have the same 5 pillars?
ME: Yes we do.
XYZ: So aren’t u just like them?
ME: No.
XYZ: Why not?
ME: I am a muslim.
XYZ: So are they.
ME: No they are not.
XYZ: Why not?
ME: A muslim is someone who submits his will to Allah swt. Who follows the Quran. Who follows the hadith. Who follows Islam. Praying 5 times a day does not make me a muslim if I then go out and shoot 10 people dead.
Islam is a religion of Peace. Do they want peace? Nope. Do they follow the Quran? Nope. Coz Quran clearly forbids the killing of the innocent. The Quran tells us to be patient, to be kind. Even suicide is not permitted by the Quran. Do they follow Prophet Mohammad saw? Nope. Hazrat Mohammad saw was THE MOST LOVING AND CARING AND PEACEFUL person on the face of this earth. He never preached what these terrorists are doing right now in the name of Islam. For them Jihad is about killing in the name of Allah swt. For me, Jihad is about struggle. Struggle to live my life according to the teachings of Allah and his Rasool saw. Struggle to resist the wordly temptations. Struggle to avoid committing a sin.
How can I be just like them if we’re so different on so many levels?
some conversation there between the imaginary XYZ and Me… I hope ur kool stoppit now that I have answered ur questions
Since we’re off topic, but at an interesting point, I’m gonna let this go on for a lil while longer and ask everyone the same question… what makes a muslim different from the terrorists?
Re: Moderate Muslim
rather than debating if 5 pillars make u a muslm or not we should be striving to bring those 5 pillars into our lives...
and 5 pillars are part of faith. nobody has the right to label one person muslim or not on the basis of that unless they bring fitna with it... hajj is once in a lifetime if ur able to, zakat every year, ramzan 30 days a year, namaz 5 times a day but KALIMA IS 24/7 365days a year! so i think we should start from the first pillar and continue our way to the top ya.
anyway, this thread is about semantics really. the moderate term has been introduced by the enemies of islam, (oh sorry im not politcally correct) but face it, you have ISLAM on one side and shaytaan on the other, those who join shaytan, call them whatever you want. this is exactly what they want, have muslims disunite,, and how silly we are to do just that. :O on 1 term only!!!
being moderate means following what outsiders want. being muslim means following what ALLAH wants, don't matter if it makes sense to us or not! and if im a fundamentalist or radical, so be it.
BBC - I Don't follow **all **5 pillars of Islam so does tht make me a non Muslim becoz tht's what u where implying in ur first post?
CM - there's a difference in accepting the 5 pillars and not practicing them. So I don't practice all 5 pillars of Islam so what does tht make me a non muslim? Or say one year I don't pay my Zakat so for tht one year I'm not a Muslim? a bit like a light switch right? on...offf.....on.....off
You ACCEPT the Kalma and u ACCEPT the 5 pillars... isn't that what makes muslims?? Thats all I meant so plz dont take it in any wrong way.
Which pillar u dont follow is between u and Allah swt, HE be the judge, I'm not gonna ask u... if its Zakaat, there's a few "ifs" attached to this obligation... IF u have enough savings, for example, Zakaat is waajib etc... CM has already made a very good point on that.
All I know is, when I was in Pakistan, my nana abu used to be very strict about namaaz (one of the 5 pillars) and when I missed my prayers, he used to say "Kufr karna chor do Khuda K Liye" He used to give the example of Hazrat Mohammad saw, how he offerred his prayers even on his death bed! Mashallah!
So I was still a muslim, because I believed in Kalma and Allah and his Rasool, but a muslim that was doing Kufr ... if that makes sense? Is that what a moderate muslim is??
Re: Moderate Muslim
Yes, I am 'kool' now that I understand that you think you personally can define who is/is not a muslim. Life is very black and white isn't it?
Personally, I believe that judgement is left to Allah swt alone. All we can do is try our best to do what we think is right and pray that we are on the correct path. I could only presume to say that people may be misguided or otherwise.
: He never preached what these terrorists are doing right now in the name of Islam. For them Jihad is about killing in the name of Allah swt. For me, Jihad is about struggle. Struggle to live my life according to the teachings of Allah and his Rasool saw. Struggle to resist the wordly temptations. Struggle to avoid committing a sin.
Since we're off topic, but at an interesting point, I'm gonna let this go on for a lil while longer and ask everyone the same question... what makes a muslim different from the terrorists?
So Jihad is wrong? The Prophet didn't fight in all those battles? Sorry, but this is just the mentality which is labeling us Muslims cowards. We're afraid to speak about jihad. No doubt jihad is an inner struggle, but ultimately it's a struggle against the enemies (army of shaytan). So whichever way you wanna put it, there will always be a group of people following the sunnah of our nabi (saw) and going for jihad. I may not go there (which many idiots tell me this) but at least I'm not being "politically correct" about it.
^
[not directed at you BBQ, just sayin']
Again, terrorists, what's the definition of a terrorist? The west describes the mujahideen as terrorists, are we going to follow their definition? On one side you have this group who claims to be on the right path by invading other countries to save them from some evil and then one the other side you have the group which is fighting against the invaders. So who's the terrorist?
Of course the people who abuse the religion to unleash their hell on the innocent are the real terrorists. They include the Americans, Europeans and all the other so-called peace loving countries and those groups who claim to be muslims.
Re: Moderate Muslim
^ yeah thats just the kind of talk that brings about the term in the first place.
it is an identity defined in opposition to something. people wouldnt call themselves 'moderate' if there werent forced to, for good reasons and bad, make the distinction between themselves and nutjobs who cloak their ****ed up neuroses in religious lingo.
i appreciate the desire to reclaim the Muslim name from the militant nutjobs, and dont think 'moderate' muslim is a particularly meaningful term in isolation. maybe if 'moderate' Muslims were disciplined they'd call themselves something that sounds less defensive, but thats not gonna happen. one thing is for sure though, the impulse to dissociate from nutjobs on religious grounds is a good one.