Re: Moderate Muslim
well not everyone can do all five pillars.
but lets take your example further and forget the drinking dude..
what about the guys blowing up people..
so someone says, you are muslim and hey are muslim, so you are like them right?
response..?
^ Do u really expect me to support the people blowing up innocent people? My response isn't mysterious.
I get what ur saying... that if someone practices all 5 pillars but is also a terrorist, then is he a muslim? You tell me.
Here's my very direct and simple answer:
*If you practice the 5 pillars of Islam, You are a muslim. If not, then ur not. *
quite disappointing!
tell me can a person choose to be a Muslim like a light switch?
^ Do u really expect me to support the people blowing up innocent people? My response isn't mysterious.
I get what ur saying... that if someone practices all 5 pillars but is also a terrorist, then is he a muslim? You tell me.
ah no no no
you tell me..
as I said the kumbaya we are all muslms and either you are or you are not looks fantastic on paper..
and I said lets scratch the surface..
so tell me, do you declare them as not muslims, or how do you differentiate between what you believe in versus what they do?
your response is mysterious in the sense that its missing :) lets see it
quite disappointing!
tell me can a person choose to be a Muslim like a light switch?
Why is it disappointing CE? :(
I always thought this was it... ? Except Hajj ofcourse...
Educate me people.
so tell me, do you declare them as not muslims, or how do you differentiate between what you believe in versus what they do?
your response is mysterious in the sense that its missing :) lets see it
lol X2 bhai is havin fun! I'm glad.
Now, how do I differentiate between them and me? In my earlier posts, along with the 5 pillars, I had mentioned the requirements of the Quran.... don't lie, don't kill innocent human beings, don't drink, don't gossip etc etc etc... all are requirements for muslims as laid out in the Quran... So I guess this is what differentiates us... how well we stick to Allah swt's guidelines.
Would love to hear ur point of view.
lol X2 bhai is havin fun! I'm glad.
Now, how do I differentiate between them and me? In my earlier posts, along with the 5 pillars, I had mentioned the requirements of the Quran.... don't lie, don't kill innocent human beings, don't drink, don't gossip etc etc etc... all are requirements for muslims as laid out in the Quran... So I guess this is what differentiates us... how well we stick to Allah swt's guidelines.
Would love to hear ur point of view.
arent discussions always fun :)
you still have not anwered my question, as I said it can be very simple or it can be very convoluted.
lets assume I am a non muslim, and I meet you and find out you are a muslim, and I ask so you are like those taleban folks? believe in the same thing, cuz they are muslims too right.
response..
on your marks
get set
go..
I will give you my response in due time, but right now I am trying to make you think ca this whole we are all muslims and either you are muslim or you are not holds water when you are in real world discussions.
Discussions are good, yes, they do make u think.
And no they don't believe in the same things as us. They think its completely justified to kill innocent people. If someone is doing haram things, as well as praying 5 namaazein a day, is there any point?
Sorry about my delayed and brief responses I am working on a college report alongside this.
Again, how do you see this whole thing?
Re: Moderate Muslim
waiting for X2's head to explode
^Oh... wow.
I guess I should shut up then.
So much for a decent discussion...
Don't wreck ur heads over me ppl, i'm out. Cheers. And thanks again for all ur views.
Re: Moderate Muslim
Nah, I think his head is stronger than that.
But you are just going around in circles. X2 asked you to answer according to a simple scenario but you are dancing around his questions. It is thus:
Non-Muslim: "so you are like those taleban folks? believe in the same thing, cuz they are muslims too right?"
BBCue: "no they don't believe in the same things as us. They think its completely justified to kill innocent people."
Non-Muslim: "So they are a different religion from you? Don't you have the same practices, believe in the same God? What if they say that you are not muslim for not following their ways?"
BBCue:......?
And so on.
Re: Moderate Muslim
easy way to join the army of dajjal and iblees:
agree or justify the war on muslims inc talibs
call it moderate islam if you want
the Quranpak and Sunnah is very clear about it
Non-Muslim: "So they are a different religion from you? Don't you have the same practices, believe in the same God? What if they say that you are not muslim for not following their ways?" BBCue:......?
And so on.
*They're of no religion at all. Their practices, their beliefs are wayy different than mine. *
**
Why should I follow their ways? I try my best to follow whats in the Quran, not what other muslims say. **
I don't think I can get more direct than that so apologies if it still seems to u that im dancing around circles. If I'm wrong, if I'm missing out on something, say so...like I said before, educate me, I ain't a saint, I'm just 21 and I need tonnes of learning to do.
Itni c baat hai bus. I'm not going to eat u up like other GS debaters. And Lucid and Chilly hit the bull's eye. But if there's still something to add, lets start again. Define moderate muslim. I'm all ears..
Re: Moderate Muslim
Re: Moderate Muslim
I have a question. Why do people use religion to define themselves when they do not hold it of any importance?
Taking X2's example. When the crazy Christians said that Haiti deserved the suffering and carnage it had felt very few people went out to say they were moderate Christians. Or say the crazy Christian group that was recently arrested. Nobody went out to say they were moderate Christians.
If you need a frame of reference vis a vis the terrorist why not use simple concepts of humanism and moral values instead? No decent human being will blow themselves up. They Taliban et al. may use religion to justify their actions, but that does not mean you are limited to that frame of reference. Rather is a very very narrow frame if that is all that is used and you do yourself and other a disservice by limiting the discussion to such a box.
As for your question. The answer is simple:
"Hey you are Christian aren't you? So you believe what Pat Robertson preaches?"
And X2 those five pillars are very easy to do. The only one that is difficult is Hajj. Otherwise the other four are done on a daily basis all over the world, by a majority of Muslims.
And Colourful eyes, one only needs to recite the Kalma and accept the 5 pillars to be Muslim from what I know. So yes its pretty much like a light switch.
And Colourful eyes, one only needs to recite the Kalma and accept the 5 pillars to be Muslim from what I know. So yes its pretty much like a light switch.
Thats what I meant... isn't it true that all ur sins are washed away, the moment u recite the kalma and accept Islam? So thats all i was referring to...
Kalma and 5 pillars of Islam are the only differences between me and a non-muslim.
Dunno how that sounded disappointing.
Re: Moderate Muslim
God knows. My knowledge of Islam is rather limited.
*They're of no religion at all. Their practices, their beliefs are wayy different than mine. *
** Why should I follow their ways? I try my best to follow whats in the Quran, not what other muslims say. **
I don't think I can get more direct than that so apologies if it still seems to u that im dancing around circles. If I'm wrong, if I'm missing out on something, say so...like I said before, educate me, I ain't a saint, I'm just 21 and I need tonnes of learning to do.
Itni c baat hai bus. I'm not going to eat u up like other GS debaters. And Lucid and Chilly hit the bull's eye. But if there's still something to add, lets start again. Define moderate muslim. I'm all ears..
So you would give the bolded replies to the non-muslim who is asking you those questions? Do you think it would wash with them? Wouldn't they say, "Don't you believe in the same God? Pray in the same way? Have the same 5 pillars?"
I am only showing you what X2 was asking from you.
I have already said that in my opinion 'moderate' muslim is something western non-muslims with little knowledge of Islam use to define people (thanks to the media) and I could care less about trying to understand their definitions. This is the same media that brands any legitimate actions of fighting or war (I'm not talking about suicide bombing of innocent people here) as acts of terrorism. There is plenty you can read on the latter to educate yourself if you please.
*They're of no religion at all. Their practices, their beliefs are wayy different than mine. *
*Why should I follow their ways? I try my best to follow whats in the Quran, not what other muslims say. *
sister barbie, theres no point in you getting political or being swayed by the army of dajjal/iblees, and thus offering statements against poor defenceless villagers (muslims at that)
if people ask you questions about 'extremists' just say i dont wish anyone death.
do not join the army of dajjal
I have a question. Why do people use religion to define themselves when they do not hold it of any importance?
Taking X2's example. When the crazy Christians said that Haiti deserved the suffering and carnage it had felt very few people went out to say they were moderate Christians. Or say the crazy Christian group that was recently arrested. Nobody went out to say they were moderate Christians.
If you need a frame of reference vis a vis the terrorist why not use simple concepts of humanism and moral values instead? No decent human being will blow themselves up. They Taliban et al. may use religion to justify their actions, but that does not mean you are limited to that frame of reference. Rather is a very very narrow frame if that is all that is used and you do yourself and other a disservice by limiting the discussion to such a box.
As for your question. The answer is simple:
"Hey you are Christian aren't you? So you believe what Pat Robertson preaches?"
And X2 those five pillars are very easy to do. The only one that is difficult is Hajj. Otherwise the other four are done on a daily basis all over the world, by a majority of Muslims.
And Colourful eyes, one only needs to recite the Kalma and accept the 5 pillars to be Muslim from what I know. So yes its pretty much like a light switch.
sorry mate..3..agree with the rest.
with the rampant poverty in muslim world I dont think majority of muslims are in a position to give zakat. so hajj and zakat are not something done by a majority and atleast an overwhelming minority of muslims respectively.
and to your example, I agree..then the response is no, Pat is a right winger extremist, I am not. Now this person's frame of reference is extremism..
however, search this very forum you dont have to go to far, here we have people waxing lyrical that there is no such thing as an extremist muslim, or ppl say that they are extremist muslims because the follow the religion to the dot..and thats where this whole issue with semantics comes into play.
So then do you state that these talebans are extremists and you are not or what?
lets keep this going, this is an interesting discussion, because at the core of it aside from a few of us, I think in one way or the other we are all thinking the same thing, but tripping over words and their meaning.