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*Originally posted by mo_best: *
I am a Muslim, but not a practising one, and I am a liberal. Muslim by name is not fair, I do observe some of the faith at times, but religion bores me.
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hm,how old r u, maybe its ur age..... its ur society,yup i think once in some reply u said u live in england, yup its this society.
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But how fair it would be for her to be called Miss Pakistan
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Didn't get your meaning. Being hindu or christian doesn't make them any less Pakistani, does it?
And no, I am Muslim.
Yaar I'm 18 and yeah I live in the UK.
Mo have you actually been to Pakistan or do just read a few things off the news. Pakistan is quite Westernised as it is as opposed to the radical Islamisation as you put it.
Quick point, can you define what you mean by radical Islamisation. If you mean entering a Miss World contest then i am sorry a Muslims wearing a swimsuit is not radical but is simply haram. You don't need a Molvi to tell you that.
But since there is nothing Islamic about Pakistan's policies then i wouldn't be surprised if they did enter Miss World. If you go to Pakistan you will see what i mean. Women there especially amongst the liberal circles aren't thinking Islam when they open their wardrobe but are thinking Vogue and Marie Claire etc. It is these kind of events which produce anorexia and depressed girls who can't cope with the fact that they aren't as beautiful as these women who enter these contests.
If a Pakistani was to enter the contest in a swimsuit, you will see an influx of women in bikinis next time you pop down Clifton beach. You will see women shaping themselves to be more Westernised. The last thing Pakistan needs is a modelling industry.
Pakistani women have lost enough innocence. A modelling industry willl make them more West than the West. Look at India and look what it has become. Girls grow up wanting to become Miss India. There was a Muslim girl who tried out and was praying to Allah that she became Miss India. It's ridiculous.
Liberalisation is the problem in Pakistan as more girls grow up wanting to emulate US and British celebrities, fornication, marital problems etc is on the rise. Westernisation doesn't neccesarily mean modernisation. Go to a KFC or Pizza Hut and see what Pakistani women have become.
But hey i guess according to some i am a radical Islamist. I however just present the facts and the effects that de-Islamisation is having in Pakistan.
We dont send our women up there on the stage to be paraded like sheep flock because we consider it degrading to women and against our society and culture. How many parents would send their daughters to compete in the Miss World even if there was no rstriction? very few, and those who would probably would have a life style which is generally considered abhorrent in our culture.
Why not have nude beaches then even? I mean Turkey --the favourite of most paki secular socialists-- has nude beaches. What if b.desh and egypt agreed to have nude beaches too? would it make it ok then? Not unless their is a sudden radical explosive retarding psycho-social change in Pakistan.
Respect for one's traditions and beleifs doesnt make one an oddbal, it only elates one to a dignified position.
Unfortunately some idiots in the govt. such as the current one may have complexes, but that cant be said about the vast majority who would like to see nothing more than an environment where they can lead their lives according to their religion.
I've been to Pakistan, although not for a few years now. I last went 1996, so its been a while.
When I went it wasnt Afghanistan like w/ girls forcved to cover themselves in funny tents and stuff-but it was pretty bad. I mean there was virtual gender segregation and so on-with gilrs being unable to parade there physical beauty-quite a sad state of affairs. :(
Why is wearing a swim suit haram, thats crazy. Say for instace Pakistan had a great swimmer, potential olympic gold and so on, she'd lose out cos they'd not let her wear that (allegedly) begerut clothing. How sad is that.
India's modelling industry has done wonders for the image of its nation, and Pakistani ppl are better looking then our southern neighbours on average. We should start and premote a fashion industry until London fashion week is succeeded by Lahore fashion weekm, and our ppl are consdiered alongside the Italians in fashion sense.
Islamic radiclaiztion for me is the implementation of a Islam that stops women (and men) from expressing themselves ANY WAY they choose to.This includes baring them from acting, modelling or simply dressing as they choose. Implementation of taleban like dress codes and savage actions for (alleged) offences like sex before marrige-similar to the shocker of a case in Nigeria recently. Hardline Islam is a scourge on the world, it ruins the image of Islam and oppresses the freedom of speech, dress, action and thought-esp of women. A secular pakistan with a clear RESPECT for Islam would be best, perhaps not so anti Islam as Turkey has become, but a state there modern liberties are the norm. And entering Miss World would just be another way Pakistan can participate in the actions of the world community. There should also be a MISS TEEN PAKISTAN and MISS KARACHI/LAHORE/ISLAMABAD/PESHAWAR respectively-although the Pathans are to savage to even consider liberating there womenfolk.
Dont you just love watching MISS TEEN USA and think "damn, if only Pakistani girls seemed as cool and fun as that". Its a big occasion for the girls, and American girls have the sexiest accents.
Logistically speaking, before we jump the gun and start shooting for Miss World or Miss Universe, lets look at the way these pageants are organized. For a country to send their representative, there must be a national competition, whose results are accepted by Miss World/Miss Universe organizers.
So the first step is to set up a Miss Pakistan Organization. Anyone can set it up, provided there is enough interest. "Miss America Organization" and beauty contest, for example, was setup in 1921 by Atlantic City businessmen just to increase the tourist season. The government doesn't need to do or not do anything in this matter. So at this point it is hard to say, in Pakistan, whether there is a law prohibiting such a competition. We do have all sorts of fashion shows, and super models parade around all over the place. But never any serious effort was made to galvanize those shows into a bona fide Miss Pakistan beauty contest.
From here we move on to the other issue, which is, whether Pakistani population will accept a Pakistani girl parading around in skimpy clothes in a Miss World competition. We don't even allow our girls to swim much in international competitions. There is some degree of hypocrisy involved here. A lot of people in Pakistan, who have the opportunity (dish/cable) will be glued to their TV sets to watch such competitions and enjoy and debate endlessly as to who should have won... but at the same time, will express disgust if someone even mentions Pakistani women participating there.
Also, people in Pakistan indulge in so many un-Islamic activities anyway, so religion is probably not a good excuse, but to do it in a high profile event, when theoretically the country was conceived as an Islamic state, still provides enormous reservations in the minds of most people. For some, it will probably defeat the whole Two-Nation theory.
Also to note, that even in India, which is a secular country, there is bitter opposition to these beauty pageants for being alien to the cultural values of Indians.
While it is true that such decisions may be left to the individuals, but the title of Miss Pakistan, would arguably represent the nation of Pakistan, so public opinion, including that expressed in this forum, need to be heeded, to a certain extent.
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*Originally posted by mo_best: *
although the Pathans are to savage to even consider liberating there womenfolk.
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Not only are you a male chauvinist, but a racist too. You're a real low life. I could say more, but I'll only be wasting my time on mental midgets like yourself.
Faisal: Why the hell do you have to go and start making all kinds of sense? Kill Joy!!!
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*Originally posted by Maula Baksh: *
Not only are you a male chauvinist, but a racist too. You're a real low life. I could say more, but I'll only be wasting my time on mental midgets like yourself.
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For once I agree with you.
Miss World contests are pretty much disregarded everywhere except India, where desperation to be accepted on an International stage sees them willing to make fools of themselves in two bit circus shows like this one.
Pakistani society is way too conservative too accept this anyhow. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a fool's paradise.
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Are you seriously on crack? I am not sure how much you have traveled outside your little hamlet, but if you go to S.America, S.E. and East Asia, and Eastern Europe they are actually quite popular. Are you suggesting that popularity in countries like India, china, Malayasia, count all of South America, Philipines, Russia etc..etc.. is due to some need for international recognition? Rallying around a contestant from your country cannot be equated with desperation for seeking acceptance.
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I am sure the Pakistani Society is more conservative than other islamic countries like Indonesia, Malyaisa and that is the shame. Some chicks wear burqas for religious reasons, some simply SHOULD.
Chalta hai-hai, don't have a cardiac. How other Third World countries regard the Miss World contest I have no idea, I don't live there. Here in the UK, it isn't even televised anymore (unless it's on some obscure cable channel). It was dropped some time back, I can't recall whether it was considered degrading or just too tacky.
As for Pakistan being too conservative, I'm just stating the facts here. There's no point in pretending otherwise when I know that's the case. Indians aren't much further forward anyway when it comes to being liberal. There's more chance of seeing you and NYA snogging than catching a couple kissing in a Bollywood flick. Why do you think that is?
So tell me what is wrong with having a pageant and people rooting for their respective country-women? If your attempt was to to simply get a dig in at India. At least there is something to be proud of rather than burqas and kalishnikovs. It's a stupid argument extreme, that's all I am saying.
Ease up soldier. It's ok for you to have digs in the religion forums but you are getting sensitive when it comes to India :)
Anyhow, look carefully at what I wrote, I didn't say it was right or wrong - that's not for me to decide sitting over here. I'm just stating the facts, that people ARE too conservative over there to hold beauty contests. Unles that changes, it's a non-issue anyway.
In the religion forum I have always tried to have a rational argument based on logic. I question the absoluteness of certain views.
But point taken well. :)
Good lad Chaltaboy. I like your attitude.
Xtreme..do you like mine too? or is it pointless.
No he likes the fact that it is pointed.....at him.
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*Originally posted by mo_best: *
. There should also be a MISS TEEN PAKISTAN and MISS KARACHI/LAHORE/ISLAMABAD/PESHAWAR respectively-although the Pathans are to savage to even consider liberating there womenfolk.
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That may well be. But they for sure arnt motherselling, liberty usurping, asswipe pimps.
ThankGod for them being savages, if thats the case.