Try saying something which shows some background knowledge of the topic, not what comes in to mind the first time.
Feminists came with all sort of logics to show it is not allowed. Refuted yet anoter time.
Nowhere it is said man HAS to marry multiple wives either.
yeah I know what the background is... there were wars. men died... there was a shortage. therefore, the survivors were allowed to take multiple wives for various financial/moral/social reasons, etc. blah blah blah... I've heard all the stories, the cliches and I memorized/learned all the Islamiyat lessons when I was a kid. so, stop thinking that you're some super allama of Islam on this forum.
even if Islam allowed multiple marriages once upon a time, it doesn't have to be allowed now. mullahs make the rules as they please on most topics... only time they cling strictly to old school rules is when it comes to women and their own ayaashi. otherwise they will happily redefine everything else for convenience, money, power, etc.
So you think marriage is nothing more than sex and ayyashi
polygamy for most people and especially in our times is definitely about sex and ayaashi...
not that there is anything wrong with ayaashi. I'm a pretty ayaash, obaash type myself. mashallah. but don't cloak it in some religious/moral garb. call it what it is... and it is ayaashi.
also, if polygamy is okay universally now just because there might have been a societal need for it once upon a time, then polyandry should be okay as well because I'm sure at some point somewhere, there must have been a shortage of women. so lets be cool with polyandry as well. oh but then men and women are different, right? God gave them different roles, etc, etc. right?
First, let the record straight. Supporting is one thing and presenting the facts is another.
I already have said it is not mandatory but allowed for a man to marry multiple women, otherwise you would have been seeing ALL muslims practicing polygamy.
You refuted yourself when you said it was ONE TIME allowed for some reasons. (Not just women were more than men in number!) Hence it was not about sex or Ayashi dude!
It is not that the condition is very different these days in many places in this world. (Laws however need to be respected and if polygamy is not allowed by law then so be it)
Regaring other points you raised has absolutely no basis about somehow mullahs made up things for their benefit. That just sounds like ranting and riding on the bandwagon.
I just wrote a post above to show what is in Quran. You could not come up with the answer from your ‘memorized version’ of Islamiat. Instead decided to show your ignorance of the topic.
By the way, where did you see mullahs having money, power? No mullah has ever ruled Pakistan for example and it is these non-mullahs who have for decades looted and damaged the country!
Is it too much to expect some senses from your posts next time? I suspect the answer would be yes.
So you think marriage is nothing more than sex and ayyashi
Before quoting me and jumping to conclusions, Inconclast........why don't you take a look at the part of Samb's post which I HIGHLIGHTED and was LOL'ing about. It's easier to say that you advocate polygamy that you support it......but Samb is right......it's much harder to swallow when one's own mother or sister or daughter is confronted with this situation. Even when something is allowed......even when the intentions behind a decision may be noble.....the emotional consequences that would result for oneself and others that would be directly affected......can't be ignored. That's just common sense. Even Allah says that justice can't be done among more multiple wives. So, while He has allowed polygamy.....He's also saying that it ain't easy....that the consequences of polygamy need to be considered. Many things are easier said than done.
I love how women are reffered to as if they are just tools.
"marry three, four but treat them equally"
How do you define what is equal and fair treatment?
Every woman is different, her needs and requirements are different. Taking care of each ones demands/needs is fair and equal or giving all the same level of attention and care is fair treatment? Where do we draw the line?
Before quoting me and jumping to conclusions, Inconclast........why don't you take a look at the part of Samb's post which I HIGHLIGHTED and was LOL'ing about. It's easier to say that you advocate polygamy that you support it......but Samb is right......it's much harder to swallow when one's own mother or sister or daughter is confronted with this situation. Even when something is allowed......even when the intentions behind a decision may be noble.....the emotional consequences that would result for oneself and others that would be directly affected......can't be ignored. That's just common sense. Even Allah says that justice can't be done among more multiple wives. So, while He has allowed polygamy.....He's also saying that it ain't easy....that the consequences of polygamy need to be considered. Many things are easier said than done.
Allah doesnt say justice cant be done, dont try to put words in His mouth. Yes its not easy to do justice but its not impossible, thats why i dont see why polygamy is to be considered an evil.
polygamy for most people and especially in our times is definitely about sex and ayaashi...
not that there is anything wrong with ayaashi. I'm a pretty ayaash, obaash type myself. mashallah. but don't cloak it in some religious/moral garb. call it what it is... and it is ayaashi.
also, if polygamy is okay universally now just because there might have been a societal need for it once upon a time, then polyandry should be okay as well because I'm sure at some point somewhere, there must have been a shortage of women. so lets be cool with polyandry as well. oh but then men and women are different, right? God gave them different roles, etc, etc. right?
On the contrary in our times its not ayyashi. In our times there are lot more cheaper ways of soliciting sex than marriage.
yeah I know what the background is... there were wars. men died... there was a shortage. therefore, the survivors were allowed to take multiple wives for various financial/moral/social reasons, etc. blah blah blah... I've heard all the stories, the cliches and I memorized/learned all the Islamiyat lessons when I was a kid. so, stop thinking that you're some super allama of Islam on this forum.
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No, polygamy was allowed to continue. Restrictions were placed upon it. Wife-swapping and "selling" one's wife out forbidden. Nothing is really stated as to why it was practiced. The original claim is succinct and correct...it is not a mandatory part of faith, so the moral imperative to end polygamy is somewhat stretched.
What is important is that someone who would not function in such a union be forced into it. That simply won't make sense and harms society altogether.
But are they religiously and ethically legal ways?
This is the point I think Icono is making. If Polygamy is indeed islamically allowed then its odd to see people putting it down by using words like 'ayyashi'. If its not Farz, you are not obligated to practice it but slandering an Islamic Law is not muslim like.
Allah doesnt say justice cant be done, dont try to put words in His mouth. Yes its not easy to do justice but its not impossible, thats why i dont see why polygamy is to be considered an evil.
Yup that's what I thought as well. This is the verse you're referring to:
"You will never be able to do perfect justice between wives even if it is your ardent desire, so do not incline too much to one of them (by giving her more of your time and provision) so as to leave the other hanging (i.e. neither divorced nor married). And if you do justice, and do all that is right and fear Allâh by keeping away from all that is wrong, then Allâh is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
Iconoclast, I was referring to the idea of a perfect justice in which nobody gets hurt or offended. I should have been more specific and used the word "perfect" in my previous post. That sort of perfect justice can "never" be accomplished and the word "never" is used in the verse. Lesser forms of justice can be achieved.....but perfect....no. It's hard for one to be fair and considerate of one wife's feelings.....to juggle more than one is obviously going to be tough. Emotions are complicated.....and it's a difficult thing to manage. Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that polygamy was evil. I was basically saying that while it's allowed...it has consequences for all parties involved. It's not for everyone.....and people are entitled to their opinions about it. I was also referring to basic human nature........often times we may feel gung-ho about something that we want.......which may hurt others...but when the tables are turned and the same happens to us......and we're on the receiving end........it becomes harder to swallow. Human nature is contradictory and inconsistent. It's not "unreasonable" that a man who might be seriously contemplating polygamy for himself........and is open to it for himself........may not be as "open" to it had it happened to their own mother or sister or daughter. And I don't think there's anything evil in this thought....as it deals with basic human nature. I think that when Allah says perfect justice can't be achieved, I take it to mean that polygamy isn't easy.....which once again....is what I had said in the previous post.
"You will never be able to do perfect justice between wives even if it is your ardent desire, so do not incline too much to one of them (by giving her more of your time and provision) so as to leave the other hanging (i.e. neither divorced nor married). And if you do justice, and do all that is right and fear Allâh by keeping away from all that is wrong, then Allâh is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
The way I see it, the ayat is referring to emotional justice and then suggesting that at least in day to day activities be fair and spend equal time with them.
The way I see it, the ayat is referring to emotional justice and then suggesting that at least in day to day activities be fair and spend equal time with them.
Yes, it's referring to emotional justice......but it can also be referring to financial justice as well. Because it says "so do not incline too much to one of them (by giving her more of your** time and **provision) so as to leave the other hanging."
I think the word "provision" can also refer to the material things that the husband provides. Because the verse has already mentioned "time"......and then it mentions "provision"....so it seems like they're two separate and different things.
So it might include the emotional and material justice. I'm just guessing here...I could be wrong. Even inconsistencies in material provisions can lead to feelings of rejection.
One sahabi came to Prophet and mentioned that he got married to a previously married woman. Prophet showed displeasure and asked him why, could you not find a virgin for yourself?
No mullah has ever ruled Pakistan for example and it is these non-mullahs who have for decades looted and damaged the country!