[QUOTE]
Jabir b. ‘Abdullah (Allah be pleased with them) reported: I married a woman, whereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to me: Have you married? I said: Yes. He said: Is it a virgin or a previously married one (widow or divorced)? I said: With a previously married one, whereupon he said: Where had you been (away) from the amusements of virgins? Shu’ba said: I made a mention of it to ‘Amr b. Dinar and he said: I too heard from Jabir making mention of that (that Allah’s Apostle) said: Why didn’t you marry a girl, so that you might sport with her and she might sport with you?
[/QUOTE]
That is what I paraphrased Mirch. What I was trying to say that its not where in Islam where it says that when you get a second wife, it should be a widowed or divorcee, in fact virgin is preferred.
Hadees maine to nahi bana'i MIA. aap ke marzee believe karain ya na karain. Sanoo kee.
Yep, I definitely don't believe in such ahadiths, some I've read in books say such weird things that made my brain go numb.
These types of references actually give a chance to the western world to make fun of Islam and call it an extremist religion, its very sad how our own muslim brothers could come up with such texts to fulfill their own agendas.
Can you actually believe that our beloved prophet could say such a thing, where he would use such words as sporting with virgins?? I just find it hard to believe, all references aside.... do we not believe that our beloved prophet (PBUH) had beautiful manners and was soft-spoken, how could he have used such language is beyong my aqal, so I definitely DO NOT believe it to be authentic. *I would rather doubt the hadith than doubt my prophet. *
Hadees is in Bukhari, we dont live by the standards set by western world. Its ok that you dont use this hadees to form any shariat but Bukhari is Bukhari, most trustworthy book after Quran.
Does anyone know whether Jabir b. ‘Abdullah (Allah be pleased with them) was previously married or already married at the time of this event that the hadees records?
Does virgin, in this hadees, mean physical virgin or someone unmarried?
Also, what does amusement mean, in this context? Does it mean that an unmarried girl is more fun, playful, active (as compared to a perviously married one who would be more responsible/mature?) in every day life or mainly the physical aspect of it?
Your stance that marrying a widow is not the only logic about polygamy being allowed in Islam.
The verse which allows polygamy is:
Let us look at Noble Verse 4:3 "If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans,marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice."
and the background compiled by scholars for this verse is this:
Noble Verse 4:3 was revealed to Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him in Madina after he migrated to it from Mecca and established an Islamic state there right after the battle of Uhud in which the Muslims not only had lost badly against the Pagans, but also suffered a dramatic decrease in the number of Muslim men. The Muslim men before that battle were approximately 700. They became only 400 after the battle. This loss had left so many Muslim women (1) Widows, and (2) Not able to get married if they were single.
To make matters even worse, the Muslims had faced yet another battle against the Pagans in Mecca and its neighboring tribes who wanted to attack the Muslims in Madina to finish off Islam once and for all, and by the Jews and the Christians in Madina who betrayed the Muslims in the "battle of Trench" after signing a defense treaty with Muhammad peace be upon him against the Pagans.
All praise due to Allah Almighty. With Allah's Will and Mercy, the Muslims had miraculously won the battle against the Pagans of Mecca and drove them back to where they came from, and then attacked the Jews and the Christians who betrayed the defense treaty and kicked those hypocrites out of Madina forever!
These continuous battles against the Muslims were very costly in terms of Muslim men's lives. The women had to be taken care of one way or another. For this reason, Allah Almighty had revealed the Noble Verse 4:3 to Muhammad peace be upon him to solve the social problems that the Muslims were facing. That is why at the very beginning of the Noble Verse 4:3 we see Allah Almighty setting a conditional clause for Orphans "If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans...(4:3)." This Noble Verse came down for the purpose of protecting the Orphans and to increase the number of the Muslims by allowing the men to marry multiple wives (preferably from the grown Orphans at that time), up to four wives only.
Also, how can you say that a virgin is preferred? Thats nonsense, we have always read that Islam encourages widows to re-marry, if what you say indeed is true, that virgins are preferred, then why would people go and marry widows? How can you people believe in such contradictory things?
Can you clarify why Islam says widows should re-marry and then our prophet (PBUH) would say virgins are preferred and would be displeased on a person marrying a widow?
Your stance that marrying a widow is not the only logic about polygamy being allowed in Islam.
The verse which allows polygamy is:
Let us look at Noble Verse 4:3 "If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans,marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice."
and the background compiled by scholars for this verse is this:
Noble Verse 4:3 was revealed to Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him in Madina after he migrated to it from Mecca and established an Islamic state there right after the battle of Uhud in which the Muslims not only had lost badly against the Pagans, but also suffered a dramatic decrease in the number of Muslim men. The Muslim men before that battle were approximately 700. They became only 400 after the battle. This loss had left so many Muslim women (1) Widows, and (2) Not able to get married if they were single.
To make matters even worse, the Muslims had faced yet another battle against the Pagans in Mecca and its neighboring tribes who wanted to attack the Muslims in Madina to finish off Islam once and for all, and by the Jews and the Christians in Madina who betrayed the Muslims in the "battle of Trench" after signing a defense treaty with Muhammad peace be upon him against the Pagans.
All praise due to Allah Almighty. With Allah's Will and Mercy, the Muslims had miraculously won the battle against the Pagans of Mecca and drove them back to where they came from, and then attacked the Jews and the Christians who betrayed the defense treaty and kicked those hypocrites out of Madina forever!
These continuous battles against the Muslims were very costly in terms of Muslim men's lives. The women had to be taken care of one way or another. For this reason, Allah Almighty had revealed the Noble Verse 4:3 to Muhammad peace be upon him to solve the social problems that the Muslims were facing. That is why at the very beginning of the Noble Verse 4:3 we see Allah Almighty setting a conditional clause for Orphans "If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans...(4:3)." This Noble Verse came down for the purpose of protecting the Orphans and to increase the number of the Muslims by allowing the men to marry multiple wives (preferably from the grown Orphans at that time), up to four wives only.
Another reason that comes to my mind could be so that they would not commit sin, since they were na-mehrams for the orphans. If they had young orphans under their guardianship, who were beautiful and young ... it would be better to marry them na. Whatever Allah allows is with a reason, for sure.
^Jee tau its a right given by Islam na? Why do men need to defend it so adamantly if thats it?
When you do want to re-marry, go ahead and do it. I had an argument with my husband last night, we started discussing this topic :p.... he said would you let me re-marry? I said, why do you need to ask me, why do you need my permission when you already have it from Islam. If you really want to re-marry, you should go ahead and do it.... inform me if you want to, there's not much I can do about it anyways.
So all you men out there, if you want to re-marry... go ahead and do it, why would you care for your first wife's feelings, they're going to get hurt anyways so no need to justify it.
I am not saying that virgin is preferd. I am saying that marrying 2nd or 3rd time is not conditional that you are only suppose to marry a widow. If marrying a widow is any better than marrying virgin (be it first nikah or second or 3rd) then prophet would have never said what he said in that hadees.
Point is, Islam will keep that same standards for 1st and 4rth Nikah. Standards dont change just because you are marrying another wife. There is no sin in marrying a virgin as second wife.
Another reason that comes to my mind could be so that they would not commit sin, since they were na-mehrams for the orphans. If they had young orphans under their guardianship, who were beautiful and young ... it would be better to marry them na. Whatever Allah allows is with a reason, for sure.
as we are saying in another thread, you have to be fair to both wives . I can quote a hadees talking about the guy who wont be fair to his wives and how he will be raised on the day of judgment but then some Islamic critique will come and start throwing fatwas to stone me to death in Afghanistan
lol, I don't think the stoning was personally aimed at you.... sinners would be the one who make up ahadith, not the ones quoting it. At least thats what my understanding is.
^Oh ok :(
I was just commenting based on my understanding anyways, that hadith really does not make sense to me.... no offense to anyone else. And I hope I didn't aggravate the issue there.
I am not saying that virgin is preferd. I am saying that marrying 2nd or 3rd time is not conditional that you are only suppose to marry a widow. *If marrying a widow is any better than marrying virgin (be it first nikah or second or 3rd) then prophet would have never said what he said in that hadees.
*
Point is, Islam will keep that same standards for 1st and 4rth Nikah. Standards dont change just because you are marrying another wife. There is no sin in marrying a virgin as second wife.
I think what you're saying is contradictory. If the same aspects of a woman are ok for a man to choose from, then what it means is that a virgin is preferred regardless of 1st or 4th nikah. However, you said before that that a virgin is not prefered.
And if that is true, we should then say that polygamy is allowed for men to fulfil their physical desires, primarily. Where does the argument of supporting/protecting divorced, orphanced, widowed or abandoned women fit in this case? It would only be a by-product, but not the primary gain of polygamy.
And if that is true, we should then say that polygamy is allowed for men to fulfil their physical desires,
I am sorry to say but this is exactly what my understanding is. We dont need to marry a person ( divorced, orphanced, widowed or abandoned women) to help her, we can easily do it without helping her. Marriage is mainly for sexual gratification and reproduction, be it 1st, 2nd or 3rd.
I am sorry to say but this is exactly what my understanding is. We dont need to marry a person ( divorced, orphanced, widowed or abandoned women) to help her, we can easily do it without helping her. Marriage is mainly for sexual gratification and reproduction, be it 1st, 2nd or 3rd.
^Why do men tend to justify it then, just say it openly.
We would appreciate honesty over meri majboori thi, mainay sawab kay liyay kiya, etc etc.
Let me ask you MIA, if god forbid Mr MIA shows a desire for second marriage, will you take his justification that he only wants to support this poor widow from Sukkar who has no one left to take care of her after the flood. Will not you tell him that why cant you just send her money, why do you need to sleep with her.