mazhab nahin sikhaata aapas me bair....

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
after seeing all these replies i wish i had never opened this thread....
i hoped for the complete opposite but it seems i have triggered another of those idiotic "sunni kaafir and shiaa kafir" debates....

will any MOD relieve me of further agony and throw a lock on this PLEASE....
[/QUOTE]

No its not about shia sunni debate... I am glad you brought it up and I hope t his thread might shed light on some people who takes blindly what ever fatwah mullah issues.... to me calling an other sect wajib ul qatl doesnt relftect the teachings of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. and quran as i quoted with the example of the lady who threw stones on the Prophet. those mullah you talked to mughal bahi should realize this fact... Its Allah who is going to give the punishment and not us... They should stop killing innocent shia's in the mosques...

if you don't like any of the activities shia does... tableeg is the answer but if the extermist mullah can't defend their own beliefs killing us is not the solutions... It just labels us muslims as terrorist.

42

^
those mullahs will label me as a kafir too if i persist on the points that r highly impermissible:

  • killing anyone without a valid reason, even if he is a non-muslim
  • killing anyone in a worship place
  • even during a war, religious people (monks, priests, rabbis, pandits etc) r not to be killed
  • a worship place of any religion is not to be attacked (unless it is radiating anti-Islamic views that cud be harmful to the muslims)

who knows deep in their hearts they might have already labelled me as a kafir for telling them its all wrong....

but its not only sunnis who harvest such thoughts, as i said even the shiaas think on a similar line and that is why i quoted the examples (which i have personally been through)....

43

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
^
those mullahs will label me as a kafir too if i persist on the points that r highly impermissible:

  • killing anyone without a valid reason, even if he is a non-muslim
  • killing anyone in a worship place
  • even during a war, religious people (monks, priests, rabbis, pandits etc) r not to be killed
  • a worship place of any religion is not to be attacked (unless it is radiating anti-Islamic views that cud be harmful to the muslims)

who knows deep in their hearts they might have already labelled me as a kafir for telling them its all wrong....

but its not only sunnis who harvest such thoughts, as i said even the shiaas think on a similar line and that is why i quoted the examples (which i have personally been through)....
[/QUOTE]

and where exactly do you live... You are the first person i know of who claims that.... Living in Pakistan even as a minority...almost every shia mosque i could think of in Karachi has been a victim.... and some of the victims i knew them .. Killing of shias is real wide spread in Pakistan, but rarely would I have heard of terrorist attacks in sunni mosques infact cant remember any killing in sunni mosques led by shias ..How many persons do you know or have heard off who are killed in sunni mosques as compare to shias???.

44

Shia'

Sunni'

Todays Kane and Abel? Biblical story of jealously between brothers.

BTW.

Talmudic saying similar to Islamic saying..

*"Whoever saves one life saves the world.” *

Similar saying attributed to a Christian.....

*First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Catholic.

Then they came for me and by that time, there was no one left to speak up for me*

Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

45

Sister ~NiQ@Bi~ If someone were to insult your mother, father or someone who you love and respect greatly you would naturally hate that person. True Muslims love and respect the Mothers of Believers (may Allah be pleased with them) and the Companions (may Allah be pleased with them) and anyone who insults them is our enemy.

It would be all lovely jovely if we could all be one Ummah but unity is based on the Book of Allah and the Sunnah not at the expense of the Book of Allah and the Sunnah.

Saying the Shahadah is not the only requirement for a person to be a Muslim. A Muslim must believe in all the prophets and in particular the finality of the prophethood of Rasulullah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), the angels, paradise, hell, life after death and the Quran and the Ahadith and teachings of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). There are different sects of Shias, each having different beliefs. Some Shias have beliefs that are inconsistent with Islam and hence such Shias are non-Muslims. Other Shias have beliefs that are incorrect but do not render them as non-Muslims.

It is necessary to unveil the evil of those who want to harm Islam and the Muslims so that Muslims who don’t have proper understanding of religion don’t fall into their traps. It is our duty to point out their deviated beliefs otherwise we will be accountable before Allah. Allah requires us to judge and rule by the Quran and Sunnah.

It was the Sahaabah (may Allah be pleased with them) through whom this religion was passed down to us and by calling the Sahaabah hypocrites and disbelievers the Shias want to destroy the true Islam.

If their curses and insults were directed to us only, then we would have forgiven them. But their animosity and their curses are directed toward the family of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), his wives the Mothers of the Believers, his sons in law, his companions, and whoever follows his Sunnah.

All members of the Ahl-ul-Bayt (May Allah be pleased with them and may peace and blessings be upon them) belong to us Sunni Muslims. None of the Ahl-ul-Bayt subscribed to the false beliefs of these Shias. Imam Ja'far al-Saadiq for example was the teacher of Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Maalik however most of what has been narrated about him by the Shias are lies.

46

All those stories and incidents you Shias have made up regarding Omar (may Allah be pleased with him) and other disciples (may Allah be pleased with them) of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) are nothing but lies and fabrications.

Omar (may Allah be pleased with him) was the son-in-law of Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) and the Lady Fatima (may Allah be pleased with her). Are you saying that Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) gave his daughter Umm Kulthum in marriage to a hypocrite and a disbeliever?

And when Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) gave the oath of allegiance to Abu Bakr & Uthman, did he give it to hypocrites?

Also Uthman (may Allah be pleased with him) was the son-in-law of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Are you saying that Allah chose a hypocrite for daughters of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)?

If the disciples of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) were really hypocrites then why didn’t Allah tell his Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) so that he can warn his followers against them?

Why did Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) trust those people whom you think were unworthy of his trust?

Do you think the matter of succeeding the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was so unimportant that Allah didn’t tell his Prophet anything about it?

This is what Allah says about wives of the Prophet (peace be upon him):

"The Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) is closer to the Believers than their own selves, and his wives are their (believers) mothers (as regards respect and marriage)." (The holy Quran 33:6)

And about the Lady Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her):

**"When you were propagating it (the slander) with your tongues, and uttering with your mouths that whereof you had no knowledge, you counted it a little thing, while with Allah it was very great." (The holy Quran 24:15)

"Allah forbids you from it (slandering 'A'isha) and warns you not to repeat the like of it forever, if you are believers." (The holy Quran 24:17)**

Anyone who accuses her after Allah has stated she is innocent is rejecting what Allah says, and anyone who rejects what Allah says is a disbeliever.

And about the Sahaabah (may Allah be pleased with them):

"And the first to embrace Islam of the Muhâjirûn and the Ansâr and also those who followed them exactly (in Faith). Allah is well-pleased with them as they are well-pleased with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to dwell therein forever. That is the supreme success." (The holy Quran 9:100)

47

As Muslims we Sunnis believe that only Allah has knowledge of the unseen…

…but you Shias believe that your Imams have knowledge of whatever has occurred in the past and whatever will happen in the future, and that nothing is concealed from them and that they can tell weather a person is destined for heaven or hell just by listening to his voice….

…Now are you saying that your Imams are superior to Muhammad (peace be upon him)? That your Imam’s have knowledge like this but the one who was sent as a mercy to the universe couldn’t see that his closest companions were hypocrites who would become apostates after his death?

48

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Houston_kah_Don: *

Isnt it true janaab-e- Ayesha left her house..disobeying what quran ordered her to stay in her house ayat 33:33 and came to battle against Maula Ali A.S.

[/QUOTE]

Will you care to explain what you mean by Maula Ali? Whose Maula was he?

49

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Houston_kah_Don: *
I would still like you to answer the question…. If a person doesn’t respect some of the sahabas because they disobeyed Prophet for greed of wealth and placed their life more importance then his and ran away leaving Prophet P.B.U.H. and then on greed for khilafat leave the funeral services of Prophet Mohamamd P.B.U.H. and then takes away the wirsa of Bibi Fatima Zehara S.A. which she inherited from Prophet Mohammad… and on the greed of the wirsa asks her for witness from whose purification quran witnesses. A lady who disobeys Quran, which asks her to stay at home ayat 33:33, and she came to battle against Maula Ali. Insulting such peoples deserves punishment and

Hazrat Abu Talib who has the honor of raising Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. Hazrat Abu Talib, whose house has the honour that first dawaat - e- Islam was held at not in Qaba but at the house of Hazrat Abu Talib even though Qaba was in Mecca too...

Nauzubillah calling such a person kaffir doesn’t diserve punishment?
[/QUOTE]

Did you know that Quran and Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) taught us that Allah is the only judge. How can you even fathom passing judgement onthose people that Prophet himself choose as companions. Shame on you. Leave the Judgement to Allah.

Peace.

50

Saiful Islam, Houston ka Don and companies... accusations, finger pointing are always two way streets. We have already seen such long history of "rivalry", can't you "educated guys in 21st century" clean your mind / thoughts of intolerance, hatred etc? Is loving so tough and hating so easy?

51

^
Brother Changez it’s not the Sunnis who started it, it is the Shias who hate the Ahlus Sunnah and hate and slander our Mothers, our first 3 Caliphs and other Companions (may Allah be pleased with them). And they will hate us and will always remain our enemies, when some of them say they want unity and they call us their Muslim brothers they are lying because taqiyya (lying/deception/hypocrisy) is a part of their religion.

Their books are filled with venom and hatred for the Sunni Muslims, which is drilled into their heads from a young age.

And the condition of the Sunnis in Iran is far worst than the condition of Shias in Pakistan but the media in Iran dare not report it.

52

saif ul islam…i have read many different interpretation of Quran but i dont know whether to laugh or get mad at this newest version
anyways its interesting to note that sunnis dont deny some of the stuff shia say bout these noble companions..these great ones didnt bother to attend Prophet’s pbuh funeral (u could tell right away who the munafiqs would be)..atleast yaar funeral to attend ker hi laitay..khair
how dare they fought vs Imam Ali :as: how dare they hurt Bibi Fatima :as:
Quran ko to jaisay bhi interpret ker lo…yeh history to deny nahi ker saktay

53

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Saif-ul-Islam: *
^
Brother Changez it’s not the Sunnis who started it, it is the Shias who hate the Ahlus Sunnah and hate and slander our Mothers, our first 3 Caliphs and other Companions (may Allah be pleased with them). And they will hate us and will always remain our enemies, when some of them say they want unity and they call us their Muslim brothers they are lying because taqiyya (lying/deception/hypocrisy) is a part of their religion.

Their books are filled with venom and hatred for the Sunni Muslims, which is drilled into their heads from a young age.

And the condition of the Sunnis in Iran is far worst than the condition of Shias in Pakistan but the media in Iran dare not report it.
[/QUOTE]

no one wants to be united with *******s like you..simple as that

54

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *

thats the first time i have heard such points..if sunnis don't have religious freedom in iran then i dont agree with it..but again thats the first time i have heard of that so i am not sure how accurate these points are
[/QUOTE]

yaar sheraz bhai, each previous time i have mentioned the lameness sunnis face in Iran you have said this is the first time you have heard of it.

there are probably as many jackasses in Iran as in Pakistan.

55

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *

yaar sheraz bhai, each previous time i have mentioned the lameness sunnis face in Iran you have said this is the first time you have heard of it.

there are probably as many jackasses in Iran as in Pakistan.
[/QUOTE]

until i confirm for myself i wouldnt believe it..its too bad we dont hear anything in the newspaper..plus it cant be as bad as its in saudia
and what about ur lovely pakistan..did u catch the news the other day that they killed another doctor

56

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
**until i confirm for myself i wouldnt believe it*..its too bad we dont hear anything in the newspaper..plus it cant be as bad as its in saudia
and what about ur lovely pakistan..did u catch the news the other day that they killed another doctor
[/QUOTE]

so when are you travelling to Iran to "confirm" it for yourself? Yes, shias and sunnis do kill every other day.

57

sheraz

we dont hear much news from iran in general, niether on US media nor on Pak media. Reading up on it would help.

as far as our lovely Pakistan goes, its not quite as lovely when it comes to sectarian violence, and I suppose you know my views on it by now.

Just by chance if anyone missed it, I think all this is lame, sectarian, religious, ethnic killings must end. If educated people like us dont openly oppose it who will.

and KSA, as bad as it is, I did not hear of shia killings there. as far as oppression goes, unfortunately it goes for everyone, sunni, shia or jedi knight, if you follow islam you can only follow saudi version of islam

58

and there was no sunni mosque in Iran when that ******* shah was ruling the country...but it was Imam Khomeni who let sunnis make mosques..it was Imam Khomeni who wanted sunni shia to be united..it was Him who told shia to pray like sunnis if they are in sunni mosque..so others can see the unity as well..

but for what man? just so these mother****ers can keep killing shias..armughal was attacked by some ppl with sticks? thats pretty pathetic dont u think...where are the guns man?? how come its only the sunnis that have license to kill ..they kill 10 so we should be able to kill atleast 5

59

changez..i have been to iran..and i didnt see any sunnis being opressed..maybe also because i wasnt even thinkin bout the sunnis...but i can tell u what..when i went to saudia to do umrah..my cousin would ask us to pray like the sunnis..basically asked us to do Taqqiyah

60

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
..they kill 10 so we should be able to kill atleast 5
[/QUOTE]

no no go ahead and kill 10 too.

although mathematically if we prorate it on the basis of population I think you should kill 2.5, so kill 2and beat one to a bloody pulp.

and heck..no matter if they were your neighbour or whatever..they made the mistake of belonging to the sect which was also teh sect of some extremists who killed some of your sect?

I think justification of violence against any innocent person is lame.