mazhab nahin sikhaata aapas me bair....

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

during my recent trip to pakistan, i happened to meet some members of the so-called “militant islamic groups” of pakistan…

while i was impressed by their obvious Islamic manners and touched by the level of faith these people had, i was overly disgusted by their narrow-mindedness…

i always held the view that the sectarian violence in pakistan was initiated and blown up by the ‘enemies of pakistan’ states (as musharraf has urged so strongly in his recent addresses)…
but now i am deeply saddened to hear the words and learn the ideas of these seemingly perfect muslims…

while discussing with them the recent attacks on the shiaa mosque in quetta, they answered “whoever did it, they did a good thing”…
i was left shocked by this expression…
how can killing someone be a good thing???
and that too when the killed r people who proclaim that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger!!!
“it is a great sawab (reward) and i wish i was one of those who got the honor of slaying these slanderers” said one of them…

i had always heard the shiaas claiming “killing sunnis is an act of honor that shall be greatly rewarded”…
i myslef witnessed them putting this to action…
and now it was the time to hear the sunni version of the ‘declaration of sawab’…
“killing a shiaa is an act of sawab”, said they whose beard went down to their chests and who were dresses as they were the best muslims on the face of the earth…

i argued and debated with them but they did not wish to move from their point…
so i told them that even killing a disbeliever, an idol-worshipper, in his worship place is a great sin in Islam, so how cud they justify killing in a mosque…
it was a hopeless discussion…
the only result was that i was gifted with a cassettes titled “shiaa - the filthiest kafir in the universe”…
“be patient with the cassettes brother, and do not turn it off because it has some very harsh words”, they advised looking at me with the same look as i wud have when giving a copy of Quran to a non-muslim with whom i had hope he wud come to the truth…

and left me with no hopes of ever seeing an end to this sectarian violence spreading among the muslims…
and for the first time i knew how right musharraf was when he clamped down on such groups and how right he was when he ordered the shutting down of madrassahs that preached such thoughts into the minds of the young children…

have we never read the following verse…
Quran 5:32
…whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind…

2

Wait a sec...Let me put on my boxing gloves first...

3

truly disgusting!

4

Armugal bhai...can you also tell us your story of the Shia version where they were saying it's a good thing to kill Sunnis......how was your encounter with them?......did you debate with them and so on?...

Just curious :)

5

I was suprised last week, when a friend from work send me this link to the website for which he claimed was a very well known and learned maulana and in this site it claimed that shia and sunni intermarriages are not allowed and nauzubillilah it said shia's are kafir and are wajib ul qatal.... which kinda suprsied me

Islam is a religon that wasnt spread at the point of sword... no where did Prophet even ordered to kill kaffirs, even though they threw stones on them.... and who are these people to give the fatwah that nauzibillah shia's are wajib ul qatl.

Don't we believe in One'ss of God, Prophet Mohammad as the last Prophet of Allah, don't we pray five times a day... Islam doesnt preach you to kill even kaffir's and we are all muslims.

[QUOTE]

Originally posted by armughal
i had always heard the shiaas claiming "killing sunnis is an act of honor that shall be greatly rewarded"....
i myslef witnessed them putting this to action....
[/QUOTE]

can you please quote an example.... Its strange though.... Even though shia's are a minority in Pakistan.... its shia's mosques that becomes target of secritarian violence most of the times.... and shia doctors that are killed, Most of the Imam bargah's in Karachi that i know of have been target of secretarian violence. but raised in a shia school since my childhood i was never taught killing sunnis is an honor nor at school nor as a preaching in mosques back in Pakistan nor in States.

6

^
such hatred is not spread in schools....
its those religious institutes (the ones that r based on the ideas that "our belief is the right and the best and all others r wrong") that spread such emotions....

i got off into a debate with a shiaa, and maybe it will help to clarify that i live in a country that has a shiaa majority something like 75%, when during a friendly talk he uttered "ya ali madad"....
we started the debate when i said that it wud be better to say "ya Allah madad" and then things went on to the point where "sunnis r responsible for the death of hussain (ra) and hence its sawab to kill them"....
i myself once wandered off into one area which has almost a 99% shiaa population, and easily recognizable as a sunni due to my beard, was at great risk, and managed to escape the 'gang' which was running towards me to 'earn their sawab' grabbing wooden sticks, steel rods or whatever they cud get their hands on, when a taxi emerged between me and them and opened its door for me....

seeing the ppl such as them act this way is not a surprise....
uneducated, poor people r easy victims of ppl who wish to spread religious hatred and some religious leaders use their innocence and ignorance to fuel in their hearts hatred towards any other group for merely political reasons....

its the same behavior from the educated and learned ppl that surprises me....

7

its really sad indeed...

i hope Allah guides us all...

8

we might think sunnis to be ignorant for various reasons but no where have i learned that its good to kill them

but seems like most of the sunnis are becoming fanatics...thats why so many shias are getting killed in pakistan..yet no one can do anything to stop it

9

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
we might think sunnis to be ignorant for various reasons but no where have i learned that its good to kill them

but seems like most of the sunnis are becoming fanatics...thats why so many shias are getting killed in pakistan..yet no one can do anything to stop it
[/QUOTE]

Our neighbors in Lahore would not allow Shias in their house claiming they are kafirs. A influential local leader of Muslim League(N) and Jamaat-e-Islami, I don't want to quote his name in this forum was a good friend of my dadajaan.. used to narrate his dream of Sunni Pakistan. When asked where will Shias - 20% of Pak population would go, he would promptly say - India, Iran or heaven.

10

[QUOTE]
i had always heard the shiaas claiming "killing sunnis is an act of honor that shall be greatly rewarded"....
i myslef witnessed them putting this to action....
[/QUOTE]

Its strange you have always heard things.... which I never heard raised as a shia. And on top of it, Its shia's, their mosques and their businesses are the victims of the secretarian violence even though they represent a minority and you get to hardly hear sunni mosques being attacked....

wonder what country or place are u talkin about, where you were victim of it...

when you are not allowed to kill kuffar, just because they are kaffir, where does the idea of killing shia's come from.

11

The Sunni-Muslims are oppressed in Iran a Shia-Raafidah Country.

*The capital of Iran, Tehran has 40 Christian churches and a Baha’I Cemetery but the AhulsSunnah-Muslims are not allowed to build a Mosque or have a cemetery there.

*Iran has executed and imprisoned Sunni-Muslim scholars.

*Mosques and Schools of the AhulSunnah-Muslims in Iran have been destroyed.

  • There is no Sunni-Muslim director in any of the government authorities, ministries, embassies, or local and provincial governments, hospitals or principalities; not even in the lowest government posts anywhere in Iran. There are some Sunni-Muslim parliamentarians just like in most Middle Eastern countries, however, these are token positions so that the common people can be fooled.

*In Iran Sunni-Muslims are not allowed to have names like Abu Bakr, Umar or Aisha and if they do they are abused and harassed because according to the Shia-Raafidah these were the names of hypocrites (God forgive me for having to type such rubbish).

AhulsSunnah-Muslims in Iran have to follow a version of Islam which has Shia-Raafidah teachings incorporated into it and anyone who refuses to follow their version of Islam is a “*Wahhabi” which is a “crime” punishable by death. Pupils have been suspended, expelled from schools and beaten for merely raising their hands in prayer.

Our early scholars were of the opinion that anyone who openly insults Hazrat Abu Bakr Sideeq (May Allah be pleased with him) should be whipped and anyone who insults Hazrat Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) has committed kufr and should be killed.

Just because the Shia-Raafidah recite the Shahadah with their tongues doesn’t prove anything. So do the Ahmadis, does that mean we should accept them as Muslims with open arms? Hell no. These people are more dangerous than those who are open enemies of Islam because whilst the open enemies of Islam fight Islam face to face these lot stab Islam from the back they want to destroy its foundations and eat it from inside like termites.

We Pakistanis usually look over the evil beliefs of the Shia-Raafidah because they are usually related to us or are close family friends and we’ve always been taught that their version of Islam is just as correct as ours but we need to open our eyes and its our duty to guide them to the truth.

And if you haven’t noticed already I am one of those extremist Mullah types who hates those who hate and curse our mother Hazrat Aisha (Radhiallaho anhu) and the Sahaabah (Radhiallaho anhum) with all my heart.

12

I use to be one of those people who wanted Sunni's and Shia's to be united and the thought of it would give me that warm tingly feeling in my heart but after reading up on their beliefs and hearing some of them curse Hazrat Abu Bakr Sideeq (May Allah be pleased with him) and other Sahaaba I hate their stinking guts and I realised how much of an unbridgable gap there is between Islam and Shiaism.

13

its disgusting and shocking to see this hatred :nook:

when i was in 5th grade i was told that this certain sect are not muslims and i asked my islamiat teacher and she said how can i or anybody call anyone who claims to be Muslim a kaafir…as religion is strictly between a person and Allah…

i completely agree to that…

for those who call others kaafir or who think that people who do not follow their same sect of Islam are somehow a harm to the religion of Islam and the Muslim ummah…even granted that they r right and such people really are intending to harm Islam…why do we think that ISLAM, the most beautiful and powerful religion that ALLAH swt sent to earth through the Holy Prophet Hazrat Mohammad :saw: can be threatened by such things or such people?

shouldn’t we leave that to Allah and worry about our own actions and deeds? if we are concerned abt the spread of Islam and creating the right impression of Islam on non-Muslims, then we can do so by our own actions…

and even if they r kaafirs? who said that in Islam we are supposed to go and kill kafirs?

i am a sunni and have seen some sunnis who believe that killing 30 shias is a straight ticket to heaven…its simply shocking…i am just left speechless by some of the things they have said…

these are the people who go and kill innocent shias who are innocent citizens, doctors, teachers, engineers, religious leaders…people praying in the mosque, people riding their cars home…

our own shia neighbors and my parents’ colleagues who were shias were killed during the sectarian violence in karachi…
and these people had small children and old parents…

i cant find words to condemn this…

is this what islam teaches? is this the example that was taught to us by our Holy Prophet Hazrat Mohammad :saw:

…

not all Pakistanis r intolerant and biased…90% pakistanis are tolerant and accepting…

its only the 10% intolerant people who spread hatred and cause disunity among the ummah…

i dont know who is responsible for spreading this hatred, probably all of us…but when we utter words that have potential to spread hatred and disunity among the ummah we should really remember that on the day of Judgement Allah swt is going to question us and i am sure we do not want to be the ones responsible for being directly or indirectly responsible for making a small shia kid yateem or old shia parents without any support in their old age…

may Allah guide us all…

wa salam

14

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Saif-ul-Islam: *
Our early scholars were of the opinion that anyone who openly insults Hazrat Abu Bakr Sideeq (May Allah be pleased with him) should be whipped and anyone who insults Hazrat Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) has committed kufr and should be killed.
[/QUOTE]

A lady harassed Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. by throwing stones at him... .and Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. didn't order to kill her, but one day she didnt throw stones on him and when inquired he found out that she was ill and Prophet went to see her and she was so touched my this act of his and embraced Islam....... The teaching of your so called scholars doesnt reflect the teachings of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H.
this Islam they are preaching is not the true Islam but infact a deception in the name of Islam... Islam never asked you to kill anyone... Prophet didnt kill her... and who are your so called scholars to issue such a fatwah....

Isn't it true Abu Bakr took away the wirsa Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. gave to Bibi Hazrat Fatima... Isnt it true that so called some of the sahabas.... after the death of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. left the funeral of the Prophet hin the greed of Khilafat. and then on greed of wealth took away the Fidaq from Bibi Fatimah... Isnt it true janaab-e- Ayesha left her house..disobeying what quran ordered her to stay in her house ayat 33:33 and came to battle against Maula Ali A.S.

If we don't respect some so called caliphs we have reasons to back it up... but killing us as a punishment is not the true Islam... Allah is there to give us reward for our needs... because of all the terror acts of Extermist Mullah's like you...word terrorism is joined with Islam and people have stereotypes about us....

if you don't like any of the activities shia does... tableeg is the answer but if you extermist mullah can't justify your own beliefs killing us is not the solutions... Its you extermist mullah who are eating our islam like termites

15

^
No sane person would agree with murdering innocent people.

But if someone insults wives of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and the Sahaaba (May Allah be pleased with them) then that person deserves to be given the prescribed punishment by law in an Islamic country however I personally believe its wrong for every Tom, Dick and Harry to take the law into their own hands.

16

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Saif-ul-Islam: *
I use to be one of those people who wanted Sunni's and Shia's to be united and the thought of it would give me that warm tingly feeling in my heart but after reading up on their beliefs and hearing some of them curse Hazrat Abu Bakr Sideeq (May Allah be pleased with him) and other Sahaaba I hate their stinking guts and I realised how much of an unbridgable gap there is between Islam and Shiaism.
[/QUOTE]

munafiq needs to be cursed..enough said

17

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Saif-ul-Islam: *

But if someone insults wives of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and the Sahaaba (May Allah be pleased with them) then that person deserves to be given the prescribed punishment by law in an Islamic country however I personally believe its wrong for every Tom, Dick and Harry to take the law into their own hands.
[/QUOTE]

And you still failed to justify the part i told earlier... Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. didnt ordered to kill the lady who used to throw stones at him... what punishment did he give her......

may be you can justify your previous statements in the light of this argument.... don't we shia have reasons behind it. who are this extermist terrorist mullah to order to kill shia's when Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. didnt order to kill that lady...even though i am not a mullah but looking at the teachings an extermist mullah like you have to preach i think we shia's are lot better then you extermist mullahs

i would quote what i said earlier:

*if you don't like any of the activities shia does... tableeg is the answer but if you extermist mullah can't justify your own beliefs killing us is not the solutions... Its you extermist mullah who are eating our islam like termites and giving us the name terrorist even though true Islam doesnt reflect these teachings. *

18

and man no one wants to be united with ppl like you
when the so called muslims can fight and hurt Imam Ali (as) then how can you expect any less from their followers

19

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Houston_kah_Don: *

Isn't it true Abu Bakr took away the wirsa Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. gave to Bibi Hazrat Fatima... Isnt it true that so called some of the sahabas.... after the death of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. left the funeral of the Prophet hin the greed of Khilafat. and then on greed of wealth took away the Fidaq from Bibi Fatimah... Isnt it true janaab-e- Ayesha left her house..disobeying what quran ordered her to stay in her house ayat 33:33 and came to battle against Maula Ali A.S.

If we don't respect some so called caliphs we have reasons to back it up... but killing us as a punishment is not the true Islam... Allah is there to give us reward for our needs... because of all the terror acts of Extermist Mullah's like you...word terrorism is joined with Islam and people have stereotypes about us....
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
munafiq needs to be cursed..enough said
[/QUOTE]

Astagferullah!!! Then you wonder why there's sectarian violence against you.

All that self-mutilation is getting to your heads; the rubbish you come out with is unbelievable. It’s all Shia propaganda from your fabricated Ahadith and History books that your 'product of Muta' Mullah’s feed you on.

At least you're not practising Taqiyya (hypocrisy/deception/lies) right now and your true colours are showing.

Sunni's who talk of unity, do you see the the crap that is coming out of their mouths? How can anyone who calls himself a Muslim tolerate words like these about the best generation of this Ummah?

20

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
and man no one wants to be united with ppl like you
when the so called muslims can fight and hurt Imam Ali (as) then how can you expect any less from their followers
[/QUOTE]

These so called mullah give high precedence to some people because they claim them to be companions of Prophet, even though some of these companions gave their lives more importance than Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. and on greed for wealth disobeyed Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H and went after the maal - e- ganeemat and left Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. later for their lives and when Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. died they left his funeral services on greed for Khilafat and left Hazrat Ali perform the services and burry the Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H.

These extermist mullah thinks even if we have our own justifications not to respect such people they think we need to be killed because of not respecting such greedy people when nauzubillah these extermist mullah's themselves say that Hazrat Abu Talib the uncle of the Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H was kafir even *though Hazrat Abu Talib has the honor of raising Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. Hazrat Abu Talib, whose house has the honour that first dawaat - e- Islam was held at not in Qaba but at the house of Hazrat Abu Talib even though Qaba was in Mecca too... *

These extermist mullah will regards those companiions who disobeyed Propeht Mohammad P.B.U.H. and nauzubillah call Hazrat Abu Talib who has so many honors was nauzubillah a kafir.......