Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

and I bet I think all these molvies in polities are bunch of thugs . Btw I only follow religious stance of Muhammad (PBUH) . . . I don't care for these one cent value molvies and neither their religious stance .

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

We have already discussed some where which ulema allama iqbal had isues with.

*Hay tawwaf o hajj ka hungama baqi tau kia
*kund ho ker reh gae momin ki taigh e bay nayyam

Kis ni nomeedi per hay ye farman e jadeed
*Hay jihad iss daur main mard e musalman per haram****

*Infact he was very fond of ahl e haq ulema and seeked guidance from them. You can always start of topic to discuss this. He had issues with so called new proponenets of islam who wanted to destroy the original meanings of islam.

*

*No, not even wahabi. it is hanafi but not deobandi. Post qazi hussain (who belonged to a prominent deobandi family-even name of qazi hussain was after moulana hussain ahmed madni) , now jamat has good relationships with deobandis.
*

*Bhai aisa kia keh diya main nay.
*

*Ok tell me how we learn islam, if not from scholars and also tell me more about how many scholars you have met or read? you should not base your opinion on 1-2 incidents.

Cant you comment with out being jazbati. Terms like gadhay,molanized,talibanized dont give a good imression for a healthy discussion. i hope i wont get points for calling names to some seculars or do we have a dual policy ali?

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

Now can you reconcile that with what NaMaan said:

Would you not agree that the religious parties who are making 'gadha' of this nation are the same ones which Iqbal "had issues with" too?

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

I don't know which country you are talking about.. may be you live in some western kafir country where all this doesn't happen..

In Pakistan.. we have a daily ritual of suicide bombing all carried out in the name of furthering the cause of Islam. Mobs routinely attack people, factories, churches, schools, minority neighborhoods after labeling blasphemy charges to protect Islamic sensitivities. People routinely get kidnapped by some religious looking guys.. one of my friend who stayed in the custody of such kidnappers was advised by them to increase the ransom amount because the ransom money was to be spent to spread the cause of Islam by the kidnappers. The list of religious criminals can go on and on from extortions to drug trafficking.

Either you are not at all aware of what is happening in this country.. or you purposely want to stay in a state of denial because you are brain washed that religious people can not be criminals.

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

So, you see no logically fallacy in you above statement? Let me give you a hint "authentic scholars of your deen" and "what ever your deen is". I think that's what the problem. Anything is halalafiable in the name of Islam...like for example suicide bombings. I'm sure suicidal terrorists follow their authentic scholars in committing mass murder inside masjids.

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

The hanafis I know belong either to Deobandi or Barelvi sect, if you know of another one please share. I personally dont haveissue in praying in Ahl e Hadith, Mansoorah, Barelvi and Deobandi Mosques.

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

The terrorists justify their criminalities through fatwas and you can get any kid of fatwa you want on an issue. My father contacted the fatwa department of a big madrassah in Lahore and the results were astounding. Wont disclose its name, but this is the way of life in Pakistan. Pay and get what ever you want.

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

everything in your post is irrelevant except bold part.
the bold part is again an exaggeration. if I ask you to list all the labeling-blasphemy incidents you could not go beyond single digit. thus you cannot say that Ulema are endorsing labeling-blasphemy incidents.

[QUOTE]

Either you are not at all aware of what is happening in this country.. or you purposely want to stay in a state of denial because you are brain washed that religious people can not be criminals.
[/QUOTE]

I know what is happening in country. so-called citizen journalist like continuously maligning Pakistan using 1 or 2 blasphemy incidents. You are not even ready to spare pakistan in this regard despite all such incidents are reported and noticed by law enforcement agencies.

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

I know everything is irrelevant, no suicide or sectarian attacks are taking place in the country.

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

^it was not the subject of discussion.

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

Nadwa ulema are not, farangimehal ulema are not, thou both have nearly similar aqaedh to that of deobandis.

Deobandis/barelvis / jamat e islami / nadwa ulema/ etc are all hanafis who interpret certain aqaedh differently.

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

Nadwa and Farangimehal ulema?

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

—:: Darul Uloom Nadwatul Ulama ::—](http://www.nadwatululama.org/urdu/index.php)

Firangi Mahal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (i have not read the complete link)

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

Everything is irrelevant when crimes committed in the name of religion are committed. We started discussing Mr. Madudi who founded JI who started violence to achieve political objectives through young students. Today this violence has become a trade mark of a lot of religious political aspirants.. but brain washed religious posters don't see any violence except for one or two isolated incidents of blasphemy charges. They can not see loss of 40,000 lives through suicide bombings and terrorist activities by religious community. They can not see damage to public and private property to protest Danish cartoons or some stupid youtube films. They can not see any wrong-criminal acts by mobs attacking factories on false allegations of printing blasphemous prints on fabrics. They can not see criminal dens operating from religious seminaries all across the country who terrorize people to extort money. They have no knowledge of kidnapping gangs operated by religious groups to raise funds for criminal adventures which they label as religious activities.

Everything is irrelevant..

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

Peace Ali_Syed

You have really stumbled across a modern phenomenon ... of Islam in the Subcontinent ... It is where people are using cross-pollination of concepts essentially making different groups and different level of affiliation.

Strictly Deobandi should really only be those Hanafis who taught and learnt in the schools of Deoband ... but that is no longer the case ... Same with Barelvis ... You see Hanafi implies student of Imam Abu Hanifa - And that can be anyone not location dependent, but both Barelvi and Deobandi infer location or school specific teachings. When Hanafis who start off learning from Deobandi teachers or make use of Deobandi books whilst incorporating other traits say those that may be influenced by Saudi Arabia and themselves start to write others books then it no longer remains part of the parent group.

So we can talk about Basis and Influence and to be a puritan from a school one should have both the basis and the influence from that school. Today every masjid in Pakistan is a school unto itself - one Barelvi masjid although sharing most attributes with other Barelvi masajid will have its own special feature exclusive to itself.

Jamat-i-Islami - Cannot really be called Wahabi - because Wahabis are a branch of the Hanbalis and they cannot be called Deobandis either since they have acquired non-traditional traits which are backed up by Salafis ... Really they are a political organisation with an Islamic flavour ... May be an Ikhwani (Brotherhood) branch in the East, which to maintain acceptance are generally in sync with established Hanafi methods.

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

Yes ... I forgot to mention them ... I use their books for studying Hanafi Fiqh myself ...

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

peace psyah

If I had to choose one school of thought would choose Deobandi but I dont associate myself with any sect. Today, all scholars from major schools of thought are screwing up their people (Muqalladeen) but dont attract other Muslims be they are Ghair-Muqallad or Muqallad. Yes, Tabighi Jamat is an exception and they do their job brilliantly but if we talk about lowest level of people who actually travel around are not Ulema. I cant believe a moment when I see a Deobandi and Wahabi fighting over minor Issues. Since the last century, we see the major issue Ummah is facing with is Multi-Faceted Confusion: Many people attacked on Islam and its tenets, Muslims and non-Muslims alike. Many Western Orientalists tried to deform Islam and present an adulterated image to the world, so that no one would like to come closer to Islam, and that the Muslims feel shameful for being attached to it. Moreover, you can see the result of propaganda of West against Islam as we get secular, so-called liberal and apologetic lot out of Ummah. May be Maulana Maududi made some errors but I appreciate his work as he fought against all fronts using his ‘gifted’ pen and forceful speeches and (tried to) dispelled confusions raised against Islam.
I dont see any well-educated scholar from any shcool of thought addressing the issues Ummah is facing. May be i am wrong correct me then, but i see this issue is strengthening day by day.
IMHO we should think about uniting Ummah.

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

^If JI associate themselves with one particular sect they may get some jan-nisaar but could not represent whole Pakistan.

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

Peace ajazali

In my personal opinion the reason Dr Israr Ahmed left JI and formed his own Jamat is because legitimately he differed from Maulana Maududi on the move to become a political party ... In 1949 ...

I am not saying that because Dr Israr is a distant relative of mine ... But because what you have described is unlike the JI of the beginning ...

JI history should be proof that for a religious group to go into politics it will create thuggery ... And effectively be the reverse of what it set out to achieve ... The reason for this mistake is because there was no taqleed. Taqleed is more than following someone it is about not remaking the same mistakes ... You see tradition is a richness that gives wisdoms through the guidance of the tutor-student chain ...

Politics is about gaining support ... Whereas what we should be doing is giving support and Khidmah, not asking for people to vote for us ... It is a doomed model. Now if you realise this it has little to do with their aqeedah or fiqh, but more to do with their manhuj ... Sincerity and Correct Beleif are sometimes not enough ... Sometimes we also need Suhba and Suluk ... In fact these days we need Suhba and Suluk more than we did in the past ...

Giving you an extreme example ... There are Zionists and there are Orthodox Jews both believe that Israel belongs to them ... But the Zionists believe that taking the land by force by any means is praiseworthy ... But the Orthodox don't ... I would prefer the
orthodox to be my neighbour ...

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Re: Maududi: Truth About Jamaat-e-Islami

I know that difference. I listen bayan ul Quran by Dr Israr and he quoted Maulana maududi at few places if not many. so difference and commonalities are there .

[QUOTE]

JI history should be proof that for a religious group to go into politics it will create thuggery ... And effectively be the reverse of what it set out to achieve ... The reason for this mistake is because there was no taqleed. Taqleed is more than following someone it is about not remaking the same mistakes ...

[/QUOTE]

I dont think you given a valid reason of no taqleed. JUI both groups, JUP, Sunni Tehrik are Muqallad politcal groups. they get same label. Problem is that we just want a mullah performing Imamat of Prayer, Funeral Prayer and Nikah type things.
Ghair-Muqallad(wahabi) do have some valid points. I find it hard to answer their questions. You remember the thread "Messengers of Allah versus So Called Imams" by 'Sonador' ? I am not approving his ideas but i saw noone of us could challenge him, probably he was given a shut up call.

[QUOTE]

You see tradition is a richness that gives wisdoms through the guidance of the tutor-student chain ...

[/QUOTE]

but we are failed to impress new generation. this is the major issue.

[QUOTE]

Politics is about gaining support ... Whereas what we should be doing is giving support and Khidmah, not asking for people to vote for us ... It is a doomed model. Now if you realise this it has little to do with their aqeedah or fiqh, but more to do with their manhuj ... Sincerity and Correct Beleif are sometimes not enough ... Sometimes we also need Suhba and Suluk ... In fact these days we need Suhba and Suluk more than we did in the past ...

Giving you an extreme example ... There are Zionists and there are Orthodox Jews both believe that Israel belongs to them ... But the Zionists believe that taking the land by force by any means is praiseworthy ... But the Orthodox don't ... I would prefer the
orthodox to be my neighbour ...
[/QUOTE]

JI established Ghazali education trust providing education to poor children in rural areas. AFAQ is an institute for Research and Development of curriculum, a not for profit organization established with a view to promote education and uplift education. A lot of school chains recommend AFAQ literature. and there are other projects for Khidmah.

Asking for vote does not mean they are power hungry. The power of govt is not only a source of guiding people but also a tool to bring and implement reforms all around the country. what is the reason we should not use such resources to bring Islamic Revolution