What does this mean ? - please expand
Since you are fond of labelling, what shall we call you - Traditionalist, Fundamentalist (oops , not allowed to say that), Saudi Arabian so called muslim ?? I would like to remind you that Islam was meant for the world - not just your region. You do not have the monopoly of thought (in fact Islam is in the state it is in because that is the right you thought you had)
So how would you use these rewards in todays world ?
laeeqkhan, its fatwaas like these that always sound so vague....
the verses, as i think, r just stopping from adultery and not masturbation....
because in masturbation u do not, in my opinion, fall under the category of those who have not guarded their chastity....
and the hadith used is really stupid to be put in i think....
does anyone even expect a prophet to say one shud masturbate????
if a person is hungry, has no food, no means to buy any, and if he steals food, its not to be considered a crime (of regular theft)....
but that does not mean u shud be seeking hadith where the prophet (saw) instructed someone to steal food if he is hungry....
P.S: i am in no way supporting this act....
but i dont approve of labelling anything as haraam without solid evidence....
and when get-around excuses like the fatwa quoted above r given, one only feels more confused....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
i am not in a battle field nor am i fighting a jihad, so dont ask me hypothetical questions, when i am there then i will see what is the islamic ruling on that is...also, a leader has to assign spoils of war and slaves to soldiers, you just cant pillage, it all goes thru the leader and he has to assign to whomever he wants...
[/QUOTE]
An even bigger cop out, i.e " I can't think how I would put my theory into practice". But you explained earlier in the thread what YOU thought the Islamic ruling was - hence what would YOU do ?
The second part of your answer put another way - "leave it to someone else to take the blame in case I do wrong". How irresponsible ! Don't you think YOU are accountable for your own actions in front of Allah, regardless of what your leader says ?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
you dont understand one think, that is for a muslim, even feelings are to be directed by Allah,..if allah has allowed for us to have sex with women that were captured in the battle field, then it is allowed and ok and we do not feel any shame about it...
[/QUOTE]
Well,, then, what Ameriacns are doing in Iraq is right, I sure they have some kind of religious justfication. if god alows that kind of actions then God must be some wierd bloke.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by armughal: *
**laeeqkhan*, its fatwaas like these that always sound so vague....
the verses, as i think, r just stopping from adultery and not masturbation....
because in masturbation u do not, in my opinion, fall under the category of those who have not guarded their chastity....
and the hadith used is really stupid to be put in i think....
does anyone even expect a prophet to say one shud masturbate????
if a person is hungry, has no food, no means to buy any, and if he steals food, its not to be considered a crime (of regular theft)....
but that does not mean u shud be seeking hadith where the prophet (saw) instructed someone to steal food if he is hungry....
P.S: i am in no way supporting this act....
but i dont approve of labelling anything as haraam without solid evidence....
and when get-around excuses like the fatwa quoted above r given, one only feels more confused....
[/QUOTE]
You have a valid point. I agree with your way of thinking, but what I posted is one opinion. However, masturbation if not haraam must be strongly discouraged.
masturbation is very healthy.
When GOD said love thyself, he knew what the fk he was talking about. 
Ever seen a sexually repressed person? They look strung out, have bad breath and are always defensive. If only they loved themselves, god knows…no one else does.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
So you wouldn't have a problem with American forces having sex with Iraqi women that are captured? Or is this "right" for Muslim men only?
Masturbation is victimless but forcible sex with captured women can ruin a woman's life. It is self centered to think God would care more about what you do with yourself in your own privacy than the trauma you would force upon a woman for your same selfish desires. Are you really that much more important than a slave girl?
[/QUOTE]
I can NOT f***ing beleive that God alows to have sex with captives and slaves. if you guys say that it is in Quran, then I have to say that God is some SICK bloke who hates human being.
Sher, it all depends which version of GOD do you believe in. If you believe in the angry GOD who has no balls and needs to boost his ego by havin ghis creations prostrate before him then such thinking makes sense. If you believe in a compassinate god with balls who is secure with his sexuality then such issues don;t arise.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
Sher, it all depends which version of GOD do you believe in. If you believe in the angry GOD who has no balls and needs to boost his ego by havin ghis creations prostrate before him then such thinking makes sense. If you believe in a compassinate god with balls who is secure with his sexuality then such issues don;t arise.
[/QUOTE]
Well, Matsui, I don't realy have to beleive in any God in order to live a decent life cos I have balls and I am compassionate and secure with my sexuality. I just wonder how can people beleive in things like raping captives and slaves with crazyer justification like "God alows it" yeah right, they should think about their females being raped and use the same pathetic justfication.
See Sher, I believe in GOD. Now he may or maynot exist but my faith in him is there. GOD to me is like the CEO, sure he has a strategy, an implementation plan but I am his project manager who gets a salary of life. He is quite hands off as a manager and lets me make my own decisions because he hired me on the basis that I have some intelligence. He doesn;t need me to kiss his ass, he doesn;t need me to go around in circles around a building, or ring a ghanti 5 times in a mandir or fast to please him. He is the most ego less thing.
He doesn't dictate right or wrong because I am capable of knowing right from wrong. I don't need his aide-de-camp or messenger to tell me how to live and what god wants because that is like playing telephone..by the time his charge d'affairsfinally gets to pen his wishes, they are corrupted by the terms and laws of the existing environment. Common sense would dictate that.
GOd is anywhere, everywhere his message is already programmed in and is continously changed.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
See Sher, I believe in GOD. Now he may or maynot exist but my faith in him is there. GOD to me is like the CEO, sure he has a strategy, an implementation plan but I am his project manager who gets a salary of life. He is quite hands off as a manager and lets me make my own decisions because he hired me on the basis that I have some intelligence. He doesn;t need me to kiss his ass, he doesn;t need me to go around in circles around a building, or ring a ghanti 5 times in a mandir or fast to please him. He is the most ego less thing.
He doesn't dictate right or wrong because I am capable of knowing right from wrong. I don't need his aide-de-camp or messenger to tell me how to live and what god wants because that is like playing telephone..by the time his charge d'affairsfinally gets to pen his wishes, they are corrupted by the terms and laws of the existing environment. Common sense would dictate that.
GOd is anywhere, everywhere his message is already programmed in and is continously changed.
[/QUOTE]
Matsui, So far these are the best veiws I have come accross and they nicely put. I mean I know what you mean. For me, I also deny Zeus and Jupiter and Odin and Brahma, but this causes me no qualms. I observe that a very large portion of the human race does not believe in God and suffers no visible punishment in consequence. And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence."
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
See Sher, I believe in GOD. Now he may or maynot exist but my faith in him is there. GOD to me is like the CEO, sure he has a strategy, an implementation plan but I am his project manager who gets a salary of life. He is quite hands off as a manager and lets me make my own decisions because he hired me on the basis that I have some intelligence. He doesn;t need me to kiss his ass, he doesn;t need me to go around in circles around a building, or ring a ghanti 5 times in a mandir or fast to please him. He is the most ego less thing.
He doesn't dictate right or wrong because I am capable of knowing right from wrong. I don't need his aide-de-camp or messenger to tell me how to live and what god wants because that is like playing telephone..by the time his charge d'affairsfinally gets to pen his wishes, they are corrupted by the terms and laws of the existing environment. Common sense would dictate that.
GOd is anywhere, everywhere his message is already programmed in and is continously changed.
[/QUOTE]
where it fricking hell is this CEO? No board will hire him...he will be fired in a quarter.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sher: *
Matsui, So far these are the best veiws I have come accross and they nicely put. I mean I know what you mean. For me, I also deny Zeus and Jupiter and Odin and Brahma, but this causes me no qualms. I observe that a very large portion of the human race does not believe in God and suffers no visible punishment in consequence. And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence."
[/QUOTE]
Quran 14:18
A similitude of those who disbelieve in their Lord: Their works are as ashes which the wind bloweth hard upon a stormy day. They have no control of aught that they have earned. That is the extreme failure.
Quran 27:60-75
*Is not He (best) who created the heavens and the earth, and sendeth down for you water from the sky wherewith We cause to spring forth joyous orchards, whose trees it never hath been yours to cause to grow. Is there any God beside Allah? Nay, but they are folk who ascribe equals (unto Him)!
Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode, and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any God beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not!
Is not He (best) who answereth the wronged one when he crieth unto Him and removeth the evil, and hath made you viceroys of the earth? Is there any God beside Allah? Little do they reflect!
Is not He (best) Who guideth you in the darkness of the land and the sea, He Who sendeth the winds as heralds of His mercy? Is there any God beside Allah? High exalted be Allah from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!
Is not He (best), Who produceth creation, then reproduceth it, and Who provideth for you from the heaven and the earth? Is there any God beside Allah? Say: Bring your proof, if ye are truthful!
Say (O Muhammad): None in the heavens and the earth knoweth the Unseen save Allah; and they know not when they will be raised (again).
Nay, but doth their knowledge reach to the Hereafter? Nay, for they are in doubt concerning it. Nay, for they cannot see it.
Yet those who disbelieve say: when we have become dust like our fathers, shall we verily be brought forth (again)?
We were promised this, forsooth, we and our fathers. (All) this is naught but fables of the men of old.
Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Travel in the land and see the nature of the sequel for the guilty!
And grieve thou not for them, nor be in distress because of what they plot (against thee).
And they say: When (will) this promise (be fulfilled), if ye are truthful?
Say: It may be that a part of that which ye would hasten on is close behind you.
Lo! thy Lord is full of bounty for mankind, but most of them do not give thanks.
Lo! thy Lord knoweth surely all that their bosoms hide, and all that they proclaim.
And there is nothing hidden in the heaven or the earth but it is in a clear Record*
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
See Sher, I believe in GOD.
[/quote]
Matty, which God are you talking about ? With balls or without balls ?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
Sher, it all depends which version of GOD do you believe in. If you believe in the angry GOD who has no balls and needs to boost his ego by havin ghis creations prostrate before him then such thinking makes sense.
[/quote]
And yes, God is the most egoless creature, and yes he does not need you to ring the ghanti in any mandar. But what do you do to thank him ? GOD THANK YOU and move on ?
-Salman
Ps, Not to mention that when a CEO/GOD is mad on a persons performance after gifting him all the pleasures of life, he can surely rip another hole in ones arse.. what do you do to prevent that from happening ?
Poor dreamer asked a simple question & all we get is pseudo scholars coming up with thier interpretations of the quran.. it seems this "Thandey" guy is just trying to irritate u guys & he's succeeding..he has no logical explaination at all..he was able to intelectulise his own interpretations but then copped out when aske dif he was in the position as to what he'd do..& all we got is that i'm not in the position..Islam is meant for all & all times ..please us eyr common sense b4 u answer a question.
the one who has balls ofcourse. 
IF GOD doesn’t have an ego, then why would he need to be thanked? Insecure he is not.
Why would god get mad? He has given us enough intelligence to develop our own remedies. He has other stuff to worry about rather than if some jackass threatens another with “slashing his throat”. 
Masturbation (merged)
Masturbation I - Haram
E-mail 1 from Ali Aman:
The Prophet said: Among those whom Allah will not look at on the Day of Resurrection, and to whom He will say, "Enter the Fire along with those who enter," the Prophet (pbuh) counted the following: The active and the passive partners in homosexuality; the one who has sex with animals; the one who is married to a woman and her daughter at the same time; and the one who masturbates regularly, unless they repent and reform.
E-mail 2 from Ali Aman:
If masturbation was permitted wouldn't the prophet have said it was ok to do while we fast instead of having sex.
Touching the sexual organ without any "barrier" between the hand and the organ: Busrah bint Safwan narrated that the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "Whoever touches his sexual organ cannot pray until he performs ablution."
This hadith is related by "the five." At-Tirmidhi classified it as sahih and al-Bukhari called it the most authentic report on that topic. Malik, ash-Shaifi, Ahmad and others also narrated it. Abu Dawud said, "I asked Ahmad, 'Is the hadith of Busrah authentic?' He said, 'Certainly it is authentic." In the narration of Ahmad and an-Nasa'i, Busrah heard the Prophet saying, "Ablution is to be made by the one who touches his sexual organ." This is general and encompasses touching one's own sexual organs or touching somebody else's. Abu Hurairah reported the Prophet as saying, "Whoever touches his sexual organ without any covering (between them) must perform ablution." (Related by Ahmad, Ibn Hibban and al-Hakim, who classified it as sahih, as did Ibn 'Abdul-Barr.)
23:5. Who abstain from sex,
23:6. Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame,
23:7. But those whose desires exceed those limits are transgressors.
E-mail 3 from Ali Aman:
Masturbation (for both men and women) is haraam (forbidden) in Islam based on the following evidence:
First from the Qur aan:
Imam Shafi i stated that masturbation is forbidden based on the following verses from the Qur aan (interpretation of the meaning):
"And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts, from illegal sexual acts). Except from their wives or (the captives and slaves) that their right hands possess, - for them, they are free from blame. But whoever seeks beyond that, then those are the transgressors." 23.5-7 Here the verses are clear in forbidding all illegal sexual acts (including masturbation) except for the wives or that their right hand possess. And whoever seeks beyond that is the transgressor.
"And let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah enriches them of His bounty." 24.33. This verse also clearly orders whoever does not have the financial means to marry to keep himself chaste and be patient in facing temptations (including masturbation) until Allah enriches them of His bounty.
Secondly, from the sunnah of the Prophet (peace be upon him):
Abdullaah ibn Mas ood said, "We were with the Prophet while we were young and had no wealth whatsoever. So Allaah s Messenger said, "O young people! Whoever among you can marry, should marry, because it helps him lower his gaze and guard his modesty (i.e. his private parts from committing illegal sexual intercourse etc.), and whoever is not able to marry, should fast, as fasting diminishes his sexual power." Bukhari:5066. The hadeeth orders men who are not able to marry to fast despite the hardship encountered in doing so, and not to masturbate despite the ease with which it can be done.
There are additional evidences that can be cited to support this ruling on masturbation, but due to the limited space we will not go through them here. Allaah knows what is best and most correct.
As for curing the habit of masturbation, we recommend the following suggestions:
1) The motive to seek a cure for this problem should be solely following Allaah s orders and fearing His punishment.
2) A permanent and quick cure from this problem lies in marriage as soon as the person is able, as shown in the Prophet s hadeeth.
3) Keeping oneself busy with what is good for this world and the hereafter is essential in breaking this habit before it becomes second nature after which it is very difficult to rid oneself of it.
4) Lowering the gaze (from looking at forbidden things such as pictures, movies etc.) will help suppress the desire before it leads one to commit the haraam (forbidden). Allaah orders men and women to lower their gaze as shown in the following two verses and in the Prophet s hadeeth (interpretations of the meanings):
"Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things) and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.). That is purer for them. Verily, Allah is all-aware of what they do. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things) and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) ..... " 24.30-31
Allaah s messenger said: "Do not follow a casual (unintentional) look (at forbidden things) with another look." Al-Tirmidhi 2777. This is a general instruction by the Prophet to abstain from all that may sexually excite a person because it might lead him/her to commit the haraam (forbidden).
5) Using one s available leisure time in worshipping Allaah and increasing religious knowledge.
6) Being cautious not to develop any of the medical symptoms that may result from masturbation such as weak eyesight, weak nervous system, and/or back pain. More importantly, feeling of guilt and anxiety that can be complicated by missing obligatory prayers because of the need to shower (ghusl) after every incidence of masturbation.
7) Avoiding the illusion that some youth have that masturbation is permissible because it prevents them from committing illegal sexual acts such as fornication or even homosexuality.
8) Strengthening one s willpower and avoiding spending time alone as recommended by the Prophet when he said "Do not spend the night alone" Ahmad 6919.
9) Following the Prophet s aforementioned hadeeth and fast when possible, because fasting will temper one s sexual desire and keep it under control. However, one should not overreact and swear by Allaah not to return to the act because if one does not honor one s promise, one would be facing the consequences of not living up to one s oath to Allaah. Also, note that medication to diminish one s sexual desire is strictly prohibited because it might permanently affect one s sexual ability.
10) Trying to follow the Prophet s recommendation concerning the etiquette of getting ready for bed, such as reading well-known supplications, sleeping on the right side, and avoiding sleeping on the belly (the Prophet forbade sleeping on the belly).
11) Striving hard to be patient and chaste, because persistence will eventually, Allaah willing, lead to attaining those qualities as second nature, as the Prophet explains in the following hadeeth:
"Whoever seeks chastity Allaah will make him chaste, and whoever seeks help from none but Allaah, He will help him, and whoever is patient He will make it easy for him, and no one has ever been given anything better than patience." Bukhari:1469.
12) Repenting, asking forgiveness from Allaah, doing good deeds, and not losing hope and feeling despair are all prerequisites to curing this problem. Note that losing hope is one of the major sins punishable by Allaah.
13) Finally, Allaah is the Most Merciful and He always responds to whoever calls on Him. So, asking for Allah s forgiveness will be accepted, by His will.
Wallahu a lam. And Allah knows what is best and most correct
Re: Masturbation: Why its haraam?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Crescent_: *
Masturbation I - Haram
E-mail 1 from Ali Aman:
[/QUOTE]
reference????
never heard of such a hadith before....
I'll try my best to get this.