Martial Races of sub-continent

[muqawwee123]

Patahn, Punjabi, Baloch, Rajput… who else?

Why some people living in same / adjoining regions have been martial and others were not martial in their nature?

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

I think the British coined these terms to achieve their target. By the way the Gurkhas of Nepal were also considered Martial.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

I think the British coined these terms to achieve their target. By the way the Gurkhas of Nepal were also considered Martial.

Do you think categorisation by British was flawed?

[waleedhbk]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

Patahn, Punjabi, Baloch, Rajput..... who else?

Why some people living in same / adjoining regions have been martial and others were not martial in their nature?

Not Sindhi

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

Do you think categorisation by British was flawed?

I think it was flawed like Bengalis and Marhattas were not included in the list. Marhattas have a history of rebellion and we have seen Bengalese too, the physical appearance is not everything.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

Not Sindhi

No. They are not

[waleedhbk]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

No. They are not

My bad I thought they were

[muqawwee123]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

I think it was flawed like Bengalis and Marhattas were not included in the list. Marhattas have a history of rebellion and we have seen Bengalese too, the physical appearance is not everything.

But Bengalis didn't have history of fighting wars. Did Bengali have any such history when British were categorising? Bengalis war was of survival and I think when it comes to survival one should expect unexpected.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

My bad I thought they were

Even archeological evidence of Moen jo Daro shows that there were no arms in Indus valley.

[waleedhbk]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

Even archeological evidence of Moen jo Daro shows that there were no arms in Indus valley.

Yes that is the truth

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

But Bengalis didn't have history of fighting wars. Did Bengali have any such history when British were categorising? Bengalis war was of survival and I think when it comes to survival one should expect unexpected.

Maybe the Brits wanted to pacify the Pashtun and Punjabis, thats why they made these kind of categorizations. Otherwise I think One cannot generalize, you can find good fighters in all ethnicities. The army should try to find the best doesn't matter which ethnicity they come from.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

@Ali_Syed

Maybe the Brits wanted to pacify the Pashtun and Punjabis, thats why they made these kind of categorizations. Otherwise I think One cannot generalize, you can find good fighters in all ethnicities. The army should try to find the best doesn’t matter which ethnicity they come from.

Do British categorise themselves as a martial race?

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

@muqawwee123

Do British categorise themselves as a martial race?

They dont need to be a martial race…they only need mind to rule (divide and rule)…

[muqawwee123]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

They dont need to be a martial race...they only need mind to rule (divide and rule)... :p

I think they do have a long history of war, so they can be categorised as martial races... They were invaders (which is one of the quality of martial races).

[marwati]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

Maybe the Brits wanted to pacify the Pashtun and Punjabis, thats why they made these kind of categorizations. Otherwise I think One cannot generalize, you can find good fighters in all ethnicities. The army should try to find the best doesn't matter which ethnicity they come from.

Yar there was simple criteria to win martial race certificate from goras...........loyalty. There is no such thing as martial race, only martial cultures/traditions. You lock a son of great warrior in zanan-khana, make him play with dolls and girls, he wont grow into a fearsome warrior.

Punjabis earned martial race title for their unshakable loyalty to british raj, they helped british to suppress 1857 rebellion. Bengalis and central indians didnt earn it because their sipahis rebelled in 1857.

Only khattaks of kohat/karak and pashtuns of peshawer earned martial race title because they were as loyal to british raj as potoharis even though they are most meek among pashtuns. Afridis, waziris and mehsuds were excluded from of martial race catagory because they refused to fight against muslim turks in world war 1 and rebelled. british never recruited afridis, wazirs and mehusds in army after that event even though they are best in terms of fighting.

balochs have more martial culture than punjabis yet they were not included in martial races.

gurkha is only 5 feet tall yet he was favorite of british as he would even fight for 10 rupees for them

[queer]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

worth a read.

http://morningmedia.wordpress.com/2012/05/20/the-shdow-of-the-martial-race-theory-in-the-indian-army-does-it-still-exist/

The early stronghold of the company was in the Deccan and Bengal, and sepoys from these regions formed the bulk of the army and served the company well in its campaigns against the French and Tipu Sultan in the South, the Anglo-Maratha Wars, the first Anglo-Afghan War, the Anglo-Burmese Wars, the Gorkha wars and the Anglo-Sikh Wars.
This trust backfired when 90% of the Bengal Army joined the rebels during the Sepoy Mutiny of 1857. Of the 74 regular Bengal Native Infantry regiments in existence at the beginning of 1857 only 12 escaped mutiny or disbandment. All ten of the Bengal Light Cavalry regiments were lost. John Lawrence, the Governor of the newly acquired Punjab, had to drain all available resources from the volatile Afghan Border to raise a relief force. This ‘Punjab Movable Column’ consisted largely of mercenaries and irregular troops (Crucial support was provided by the maharajas of princely states by providing elephants which pulled the artillery howitzers). This siege train went on to recapture the rebel cities of Delhi and later Lucknow and Kanpur. Most of these new recruits were Pathans, Baluchs, Punjabi mussalmans, Jats and Sikhs. The Kumaonis, Gorkhas and Garhwalis had already served the Company in the Gorkha Wars against Nepal in 1814-16.

The loyal service these ethnic groups provided was rewarded after the mutiny was quelled. The British gave them the status of martial races. According to them, these races, in today’s parlance -ethnic groups, were better suited for warfare. Considered to be physically stronger as they came from hunting or agricultural cultures, or from mountainous regions with a history of conflict, these races had a strong identity centered around their tribes and thus had an exalted sense of loyalty and patriotism.

Post 1857, the newly constituted British Indian Army started recruiting heavily from these races. As a result, the Bengal, Awadhi, Bihari and Deccani representation in the army declined. Also affected were the Marathas, who had a glorious martial past but ended up on the wrong side of the mutiny with several top leaders like Tantya Tope, Nana Sahib and Rani Laxmi Bai being Marathas. Exceptions were made only in the case of Jadhavs, Dhangars and Mahars, who were all Marathas. Shivaji originally recruited the Mahars as scouts and fort guards in his army.

The prominent ethnic groups from modern India considered martial post-1857 were: Dogras, Garhwalis, Gujjars, Gorkhas, Jats, Kumaonis, Pathans, Rajputs, Sikhs, Janjuas, Mahars, Kodavas, Gakhars, Ghumman, Khokhar and Yadavs.

[khoji]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

Even archeological evidence of Moen jo Daro shows that there were no arms in Indus valley.

How do you know Mohenjodaro people were present-day Sindhis?
Yes, people of Harappa/Mohenjodaro were very peaceful. It was due to their religion which later gave birth to Buddhism and philosophy of love now espoused by Christianity and Buddhism.

[khoji]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

But Bengalis didn't have history of fighting wars. Did Bengali have any such history when British were categorising? Bengalis war was of survival and I think when it comes to survival one should expect unexpected.

There are various reasons why some people fight wars fearlessly and some don't. Sometimes it has to do with religious zeal, sometimes with agressive leadership, sometimes with economic conditions, sometimes with fear of aggressors, etc.
This is why sometimes a "warrior race" of one time may be defeated easily a some other time, when circumstances are changed.

[khoji]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

@Ali_Syed

I think the British coined these terms to achieve their target. By the way the Gurkhas of Nepal were also considered Martial.

Gurkhas are one of the most famous warriors of subcontinent. Interesting that Gurkhas are quite short in height at about 5’3". It proves that in war, physical stature is not as important as training and mental toughness.

Gurkhas - Deadliest Warrior Wiki - The wiki about everything Deadliest Warrior
“Defeat is not a word in their vocabulary.”
-John Conlin, Former Gurkha Commander

[muqawwee123]

Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

@khoji

How do you know Mohenjodaro people were present-day Sindhis? Yes, people of Harappa/Mohenjodaro were very peaceful. It was due to their religion which later gave birth to Buddhism and philosophy of love now espoused by Christianity and Buddhism.

There have been mixing of races, but overall psyche of society remained same to great extent. There haven't been any invasions from Sindh in other parts of the world.