Martial Races of sub-continent

Arts & Culture History
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Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

Mohenjodaro is but just one city in a vast territory inhabited by Indus Valley people. Harappa of Punjab belonged to the same civilization. Sites belonging to this civilization are widespread, running from Eastern Afghanistan to Western India (Gujrat). Probably even beyond.
So narrowing it down to one area, only because ONE city was unearthed from there, would be falsification of history.

Sindhis do belong to that civilization but so do Punjabis, Brahuis, and other parts of Northern India where Urdu/Hindi is spoken.

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Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

Who said that Indus civilisation and its psyche is limited in one particular area. If you look at folklore of Punjab (especially Southern Punjab), Gujarat and Sindh.. Its all shared. Hindko (spoken in Kashmir, Hazara) still got common vocabulary with Sindhi.

Punjabis got martial race status due to Sikhs (considering the Ranjeet Singh's war just before British rule started). Gujratis, Saraiki people, Kashmiris and Hindko speaking belt was not martial.

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Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

That is true. The religion again played part in turning Punjabi Sikhs becoming fearless warriors eager to defeat the non-khalisa.
*raaj kare ga khalisa
baaqi rahe na ko.
*
Same religious zeal which turned insignificant Arabs into conquerors of the world in Islam's early era.

Interesting thing about Sikh rule is that present boundary between Pakistan and Afghanistan is defined by the extent of the Sikh Empire. Had Sikhs not captured Peshawar, it would still have been under Afghanistan.

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Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

But Arabs were warriors before Islam having fights between tribes generations after generation for longer period of time. Sikhs (Punjabi) didn't have such history till they were compelled by Mughals in that direction

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Arabs used to fight among each other. But for making of an empire it needs organization and a single focused goal. Many a times the religion becomes this single goal.

I have also heard that Mughals killed their gurus. This compelled them to pick up arms. Like I said, religion gave them a reason to be united, created a sense of unity, sense of belonging to a group, sense of being deprived, and this resulted in passion to fight.

What I don't understand is that if they were angry with Mughals then why did they attacked Pashtuns instead of attacking Mughals?!

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Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

In respect of Arabs, religion lead them away from internal conflicts. Islam didn't actively teach to attack for purposes of expansion, but Arab nature and psyche did raids and conquests (which is now defended by some historians as wars in the name of Islam). Factually, neither Muslim conquest of Sindh nor Spain were religiously motivated.

Sikh - Pashtun rivalry took place when Mughals got weaker. I think prior to Ranjeet Singh, there might not be fights between Sikhs and Pashtuns. Till Mughal era (upto Auranghzeb), Sikhs were mainly in defensive position and after that during Ranjeet Singh's era its about expanding Punjab / Khalsa Raj (don't know what they exactly called it).

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Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

**Hakīm Abul-Qāsim Ferdowsī Tūsī (Persian: حکیم ابوالقاسم فردوسی توسی‎, most commonly known as Ferdowsi (فردوسی) ; also spelled as Firdausi or Firdusi; 940 – 1020 CE), was a highly revered Persian poet. He is the author of the Shahnameh, the national epic of Iran and the Persian-speaking ****world

**

http://www.iranianpedia.com/persian-poem/pic/ferdowsi.gif

**

**

Ferdowsi Quotes Baloch in his famous shannameh the following words :-

**next after gustaham came shrewd askash
endowed with prudent heart and ready brain,his
his troop was from the wanderers of the koch and
baloch with a warlike spirit wearing exalted cocks comb crests on their turbans and very rams
to fight,no one had seen their backs in the battle or
one of their fingers bare of armour,their banner was a
pard with claws projecting,akash felicitated Kai
khusrau at large upon the happy turn of fortune

BALOCH WERE PART OF MILITARY FORCES OF EMPEROR CYRUS ,XERXES AND ******cambyses ******Achaemenid Dynasty

Ferdowsi described the baloch as part of the army of cambyses (siahwash),son of kai kaouse of the Achaemenid Dynasty

Shahnameh-e-Firdousi,

BALOCH IS a Martial Race UNDOUBTEDLY
**

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Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

Why then they were not categorised as martial race by British?

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Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

**The 130th King George’s Own Baluchis (Jacob’s Rifles) was an infantry regiment of the British Indian Army raised in 1858 as the 1st Regiment of Jacob’s Rifles or 1st Baloch Rifles. It was designated as the 130th Jacob’s Baluchis in 1903 and became 5th Battalion (King George’s Own) 1903 - 1922
130th King George’s Own Baluchis
(Jacob’s Rifles)
130 Baluchis 1910-22.jpg
Active 1903 - 1922
Country British Raj British India
Branch British Raj British Indian Army
Type Infantry
Size 2 Battalions
Uniform Drab in 1881; Green in 1885; faced red; red trousers
Engagements Second Afghan War
Boxer Rebellion
First World War (German East Africa)
Palestine)
Commanders
Colonel-in-Chief King George V

**

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7f/130_Baluchis_1910-22.jpg

**Pagri Badge 1906

A silver officer’s badge worn either on an Indian officer’s turban or a pagri worn round the white helmet of a British officer. The regiment had the title ‘Prince of Wales’s Own’ for only 4 years from 1906 to 1910 although they retained the feathers for their badge after 1910

**

The 10 Baloch Regiment

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/Baluch1a3c.jpg

**The 10th Baluch or Baluch Regiment was a regiment of the British Indian Army After the Partition of India, it was transferred to the Pakistan Army.
Allegiance United Kingdom British Crown (1922 - 47)
Pakistan Pakistan (1947 - 56)
Branch British Raj British Indian Army
Pakistan Army

 1798 – Present

Country British Raj British India 1798-1947

Pakistan Pakistan 1947-Present
Branch Pakistan Army
Type Line Infantry
Role Standard Infantry with 1 Air Assault,
1 Light Commando, 2 Mechanized and 8 Light Anti Tank Battalions
Size 55 Battalions
Regimental Centre Abbottabad
Motto Ghazi ya Shaheed
(Victorious or Martyr)
War Cry Kai Kai
Uniform Rifle Green; faced cherry
Engagements Second Poligar War 1801
Second Mahratta War 1803-05
Travancore War 1808-09
Third Mahratta War 1817-19
Third Kandy War 1818
First Burma War 1824-26
Naning War 1831-32
Coorg War 1834
Expedition to Aden 1839
Second Sikh War 1848
Second Burma War 1852-53
Anglo-Persian War 1856-57
Great Indian Rebellion 1857-58
Taiping Rebellion 1862-64
Abyssinian Campaign 1868
Second Afghan War 1878-80
Rampa Rebellion 1879
Anglo-Egyptian War 1882
Third Burma War 1885-87
Pacification of Upper Burma 1890-96
Manipur Expedition 1891
British East Africa 1896
British East Africa 1897-99
The Boxer Rebellion 1900
British Somaliland 1908-10
First World War 1914-18 (France & Flanders, Egypt, Palestine, Gallipoli, Mesopotamia, Persia, Aden, German East Africa, Salonika, Russia)
Third Afghan War 1919
Iraqi Revolt 1920
Burmese Rebellion 1931-32
Second World War 1939-45 (Italian East Africa, North Africa, Sicily, Italy, Greece, Iran, Iraq, Burma, Malaya, French Indochina, Dutch East Indies)
Kashmir War 1948
Indo-Pakistan War 1965
Indo-Pakistan War 1971
Siachen Conflict 1984-
Kargil War 1999

**
**Lance Naik Wazir Khan a Baloch From Rind Tribe 27th Bombay Native Infantry (now 10 Baloch, Pakistan Army), c. 1865.

**

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7e/27th_Bombay_Native_Inf_1865._L-Naik_Wazir_Khan.jpg

**Martial races of undivided India By Vidya Prakash Tyagi read it written about baloch as well **Martial races of undivided India - Vidya Prakash Tyagi - Google Books

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Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

BALOCH IS A MARTIAL RACE READ THIS Martial races of undivided India - Vidya Prakash Tyagi - Google Books

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Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

Were there actual balochis in the baloch regiments? I mean Pakistan inherited the baloch regiment and the army has been Punjabi and Pashtun. The Pashtun units that became part of FC and army units from KP still have a large Pashtun representation. As for dissing gurkhas, do it at your own peril. I guess from what I have heard, gurkhas are like Chinese (don't look desi) so I guess it is a testament to the Chinese warrior spirit? Chinese have fought americans but they had overwhelming numbers in Korean war and Indians believe the same in 1962, though I think Chinese were better prepared than Indians, though to Pakistan's unlucky stars, India raised mountain divisions with western help that ultimately were deployed in Kashmir.

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u can see the monograms,badges of baloch regiments baluch is written on it not punjabi or pashtun lolzz

well i have given u reference and prove why are u so amazed yes they were actual baloch actually they were real baloch undoubtedly if any one has still doubt then he can go to Britain and ask them if actual baloch were in baloch regiments or there were only punjabi and pashtuns in it what a joke haha baloch helped British in all the wars that i mentions earlier in this thread there were lot of baloch in the baloch regiment long time back rather it was only for baloch when it started when it was with British but now only 2 percent baloch are in baloch regiment the rest are punjabi and pakhtoons

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How come marwati mentioned that baloch were not martial race if they were serving the british? Anyway, it would make sense that there are less balochis since balichis are like 10 million in Pakistan

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Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

some baloch tribes refused to join British army such as marri bugti nutkani domki cause they fought against the British

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Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

I don't think so as even Punjab was part of durrani empire. Secondly Peshawar (most of present kpk) Has always been part of the same civilisations as Punjab and it makes sense too as the invaders had to pass through khyber pass to reach the Indian heartland.

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Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

But durrani empire predates the Sikhs. There were no anglo-durrani wars in the indian subcontinent per my knowledge unlike the anglo-sikh wars.

So basically the baloch of balochistan proper? There are sindhis that claim balochi ancestry as well as seraikis in D I khan era, where balochis probably moved due to better lifestyle and events like nadir shah's invasion that took a beating on the baloch.

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Re: Martial Races of sub-continent

I know, just pointing out the fact that the durrani empire even had Punjab. Therefore I don't think this is right that if Sikhs had not conquered Peshawar it might still would have been with the afghans.

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I think what khoji is saying is that the british pretty much set up the border to be around the extent of the Sikh empire, with KP (frontier province) and Punjab becoming british provinces. Pakistan area wasn't that useful to the british except as a buffer to a buffer state of Afghanistan, so FATA was useless to them when they had all of "civilized" india.

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Some people say that Mari / Bugti are actually Pashtun Tribes.

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bugti's are karmazai's, and zai usually comes with pashtuns but am not really sure.