Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...
Jaanwar, I do agree with you that it's still just ONE side of the story it could be exaggerated a whole lot... but regardless I wouldn't let someone I hate stay by themselves (a woman) and take a shuttle to the airport in Karachi..no matter how much I hated her. How could the husband do it? That too when this was a 'love' marriage as well..
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...
Jaanwar, I do agree with you that it's still just ONE side of the story it could be exaggerated a whole lot... but regardless I wouldn't let someone I hate stay by themselves (a women) and take a shuttle to the airport in Karachi..no matter how much I hated her. How could the husband do it? That too when this was a 'love' marriage as well..
And that one part of the story actually tells that, whoever may be in the wrong, what the husband & in-laws have done, that's something which isn't right as well.
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...
So lets try to build the other side of the story:
From what OP have said so far:
1) She is not an easy person, i.e. she don't mingle with people easily ( this could have sent messages to the sisters and other relevant persons that OP is an arrogant person...now no body like arrogance or an arrogant person???_)
2) What kind of girl will stay with her in-laws as a guest? she should have not stayed there, Period!!! or if staying was that necessary, then she should have her mom or one of her Khala staying there with her, not on her own....
3) Her MIL was so right to not let them together alone!!! Rukhsati have not taken place yet, MIL was again right to be with them while outing as again they are Nikahfied only... so there are restrictions there, which MIL have to make sure not broken when she is in control...
4) It looks like the OP have relatives in Islamabad, then why didn't they had this Nikkah in Islamabad to start with?
5) OP got sick and what she did, she decided to go back to Hotel without informing her MIL... now that is insulting for the MIL, she want to go to Hotel room with her husband without informing her MIL where she was staying for past few days???
6) If she have been bitten by mosquitoes, then there are solutions for that, ask about it? if you are an Early-Bird" then don't make it AZAAB for others, if you woke-up early, you could have made break-fast for everyone... this could have been nice gesture from you??? but that never strikes OP's mind???
7) It is your problem to mingle in the family of your husband and not the other way around, yes they should take care of you but you have to start the relationship and/or develop the bond with them to start with... the OP said that the elder sister was nice to her, the MIL was nice to her before NIkkah... then there must be few missing links here which turned them into monster in the period of 2/3 days???
8) MIL was so right to not to let your HUSBAND and you go for a Honey-Moon before rukhsati... why to complain, if you wanted to go for honey-moon, get your rukhsati done???
9) About the room issue again, i bet no one the OP's house have thought that after Nikkah you would be staying with them.. no one was prepared for it, so that is what you get when you are an un-invited ( traditionally and technically not a ) guest...
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...
hanibal,
PLEASE DO NOT spread around here WRONG info...
There's nowhere in Islam that a husband and wife cannot go out and stay with each other alone before rukhsati, if that is what u were trying to say in your post...
Please correct your own knowledge and understanding before sharing it here. Rukhsati is just "the moving out of father's house for moving in at husband's place after Nikah had taken place", its not that "after rukhsati has the marriage only taken place".
Marriage itself only requires having "Nikah", which is "the acceptance (by saying and and/or signatures) by a man and woman for taking each other as spouse for themselves in presence of witnesses". Then ofcourse after they have had Nikah meaning have got married they can be alone with each other.
@OP
It was very sad to hear what u r going through...i wud say its better to end this relationship if ur judjement tells u that HIS MOM will not change bcoz i don't find ur husband being the evil one, its all his mom...i think overtime your husband's attitude may change, esp if u show some more compromising from your side (i know u r already trying but it will take time)...and if he moves to Canada, there r chances that things may get better, but its possible that he may sponsor his mom and sisters to move there as well, and if his mom's behavior and attitude doesn't change then that can cause more trouble...
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...
3) Her MIL was so right to not let them together alone!!! Rukhsati have not taken place yet, MIL was again right to be with them while outing as again they are Nikahfied only... so there are restrictions there, which MIL have to make sure not broken when she is in control...
Er they're legally and ISLAMICALLY husband and wife after Nikkah. They could have been out together, slept with each other and it'd be legally and religiously ALLOWED.
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...
hanibal,
PLEASE DO NOT spread around here WRONG info...
please refrain from false accusation, that is also prohibited in Islam or may be u r allowed to make some???
There's nowhere in Islam that a husband and wife cannot go out and stay with each other alone before rukhsati, if that is what u were trying to say in your post...
As far as i know, i never ever wrote a sinlge word stating about the religious reading on the issue, if i have, please show it to me, otherwise please stop assuming things.... traditionally in Pakistan, it is not allowed (even after Nikkah) to go out without supervision, if you don't know that, search and ask about it....
Please correct your own knowledge and understanding before sharing it here. Rukhsati is just "the moving out of father's house for moving in at husband's place after Nikah had taken place", its not that "after rukhsati has the marriage only taken place".
again, please learn to comprehend, or if you are not able to do that, get some advice or lessons before making a total fool out of yourself...
Marriage itself only requires having "Nikah", which is "the acceptance (by saying and and/or signatures) by a man and woman for taking each other as spouse for themselves in presence of witnesses". Then ofcourse after they have had Nikah meaning have got married they can be alone with each other.
see my above reply on it.. try to understand the statements/comments and then reply accordingly...
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...
Er they're legally and ISLAMICALLY husband and wife after Nikkah. They could have been out together, slept with each other and it'd be legally and religiously ALLOWED.
yup, but there is something called tradition, you may like it or not, but they are followed by the families in Pakistan... same happened here, there was a reason that Rukhsati never took place. isn't it??
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man …
So ‘‘tradition’’ takes preference over religion?
The guy and his wife are LEGALLY AND ISLAMICALLY HUSBAND AND WIFE.
Did you know Rikhasti has NO place in Islam and is originally a HINDU tradition?
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man …
We have been discussing this issue in ‘Nikah is Marriage’ thread and it was concluded that although rukhsati has no place in Islam, it has a great significance in our culture and Islam does ask us to follow what the majority is following if it is NOT against Islam. Rukhsati is a cultural thing is Pakistan and there is no harm in following this. If a person has a problem, they can go for nikah + rukhsati. But if it is done separately, we should respect our tradition and culture and there is no harm in it.
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...
So, such moms happily accept those girls chosen by themselves & would be happy sharing their sons with them?
There is a comparatively greater chance of successful marriage if such guys marry the girls of their mom's choice.
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...
But if it is done separately, we should respect our tradition and culture and there is no harm in it.
It should but then don't come out and say ''Mom was right to have control as there was no rukahsti''
And rukhasti ONLY happens in Islam AFTER a few hours of Nikkah. Not after months and months, so that point is moot. after a nikkah they can go and make babies if they want to and its allowed.
Mom and was legally and Islamically wrong.
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man …
No i never knew that, and i guess also the times of Prophet (SAAW) they were not aware of it, that is why, the Nikah with Ayesha (RZA) and Rukhsati were at different times… now don’t tell me that Hazrat Ayesha (RZA) and Prophet (SAW) were meeting out alone and spending nights together after the NIkkah and before the Rukhsati took place… ( there was 2-4 years difference between the Nikkah and Rukhsati)
And like Ashy has said, if the traditions are not against the basic values and ordeal of Islam, then no harm in following them if someone have chosen to follow them…
You can choose not to follow it but if someone have, then they have to respect it..
yet you have not answered the real question, if they were all set, then y didn’t they do for Rukhsati right after the NIkkah, why they have to postpone it to some other time, there should be a reason isn;t it?? but i guess we are going to get into religious debate instead of looking into the matter logically…
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...
if they were all set, then y didn't they do for Rukhsati right after the NIkkah, why they have to postpone it to some other time, there should be a reason isn;t it??
Because Rukhasti is not free and a person has to spend money you know muft ka kaam nahi :)
if the traditions are not against the basic values and ordeal of Islam, then no harm in following them if someone have chosen to follow them...
Buddy, you're advocating a legal husband and wife who are husband and wife islamically too to NOT meet together, that is going our against out religion right here.
What part is hard to get?
Nikkah happens. They are HUSBAND and WIFE. ISLAMICALLY too.
End of!
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...
It should but then don't come out and say ''Mom was right to have control as there was no rukahsti''
And rukhasti ONLY happens in Islam AFTER a few hours of Nikkah. Not after months and months, so that point is moot. after a nikkah they can go and make babies if they want to and its allowed.
Mom and was legally and Islamically wrong.
If nikah is done separately for specific purpose like visa, the gap between nikah and rukhsati can be siginificant. The elders might have their reasons for not allowing legal husband and wife together before rukhsati. Many of the cultural things in our society is a step ahead of Islamic teachings. E.g. caring for in-laws is not a must on DIL in Islam but it is considered a good thing in our society. Call it good or bad, but there are cultural aspects which we should follow being Pakistanis.
We can either follow the religion only OR follow religion + traditions. If we only follow the religion, we can create unrest in our society because we will be disturbing the status quo. But if we follow religion + culture, we can make everyone happy, Allah Swt + people in our society.
I again insist, if anyone thinks need for rukhsati is a useless thing, they should go for nikah + rukhsati. But if they are making use of this cultual allowance of separate nikah + rukhsati, they should take the whole package of restraining till after the rukhsati. Its not take the part what you like and leave the part what you don't.
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man …
Well then we should change them for the better should we not instead of continue to advocate them.
So hang on, on one hand you’re saying we can either please Allah only or we can please both Him and the people together by twisting religion?
:khums:
Nikkah- Husband and Wife
Rukhasti- a MAN made tradition.
Simple.
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man …
True!
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...
yup, but there is something called tradition, you may like it or not, but they are followed by the families in Pakistan... same happened here, there was a reason that Rukhsati never took place. isn't it??
"traditions" broke when he didn't get married to his cousin and had a love marriage with the OP
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...
it shows some of you have never been to pakistan before, or even know anything about it.
why are we bringing religion into this ?
true, religion is superior than tradition BUT do you really think that's the case in Pakistan ?
if you really think that it would be OK in pakistan that you behave like you're really married when you've only been through the Nikkah, why did they sleep in different rooms ?
If she had a little self respect and decency she wouldn't have stayed there, even though they were insisting.
i was supportive at first but seriously, she's as narrow minded as her in laws , if you can't speak your mind and don't make any effort then stop complaining.
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man …
Religion is not being twisted. Its just an addition.
Anyways, its a never ending discussion. But we cannot deny the importance of rukhsati in our culture given by people in Pakistan and majority of the cases I know, the girls are not allowed to stay at in-laws at night in Pakistan after the nikah.
Change will come. But it will take decades and till then no harm in following what our elders ask us to do. When our generation will become parents, we will be in a better position to bring this change. Till then, we should respect what our parents expect us to do. For now, we can discuss our point of view with our elders (which is Islamically right) and we will be lucky if we get our elders support. Consensus decision making is the best.
Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...
please refrain from false accusation, that is also prohibited in Islam or may be u r allowed to make some???
it was not an accusation, i just wanted to point it out that u have made it sound like rukhsati is a "must" according to islamic proceeding of a marriage although it has not much significance islamically in the proceeding of a marriage
As far as i know, i never ever wrote a sinlge word stating about the religious reading on the issue, if i have, please show it to me, otherwise please stop assuming things.... traditionally in Pakistan, it is not allowed (even after Nikkah) to go out without supervision, if you don't know that, search and ask about it....
u said her MIL did the right thing by not letting the husband and wife be together alone bcoz rukhsati wasn't done, and that she also did right by not letting them go for a honeymoon bcoz they didn't have their rukhsati...as if it was haraam for them to be together alone before rukhsati...so i was jus letting u know that rukhsati is not a must islamically if u didnt already know that
and yes i do know rukhsati is a very much practiced tradition in Pakistan, just please dont mix it with whats legal in marriage and whats not as rukhsati is just a tradition as u urself pointed out and not a legal or islamic requirement of marriage proceedings
again, please learn to comprehend, or if you are not able to do that, get some advice or lessons before making a total fool out of yourself...
see my above reply on it.. try to understand the statements/comments and then reply accordingly...