Marrying a Pakistani man ...

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

hazrat aisha (rza) did not leave her home to go to the prophet (saw) for some years because she was *too young *at the time of nikkah.

anything who says that two consenting adults who have had nikkah are doing anything something haram and wrong, need to take a very close look at what they are saying. i'm not saying they should not respect the parent's wishes, they should. but it doesn't mean that the parents are right.

if anyone should have had some respect, it should have been the mother. if the couple wanted rukhsati she should have done it. but if she wants an easy divorce so her son can marry his cousin.. i don't think i need to explain why she didn't do it.

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

Jaanwar, I agree that this is only one side of the story but do you just stop giving advice because both parties don't come on GS and present their side? I hope the OP keeps an open mind and maybe revealuate things with her husband without the family, so he can be himself?

But I still think he's a sissy for not standing up for her at all. IF it happened as the OP explained!

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

Thank you everyone once again for all your replies.

Let me clear a few things.

-It is true that this is just my side of the story but I have not really skipped over any parts. I can't really ask my husband to come here and post his side of the story for obvious reasons.

-Even though we have no family or friends in Karachi, we held the nikah there for two reasons
1) We are quite well off but he belongs to lower middle class with him being the only source of income at his house. His mom is a widow and my parents decided that my khalas and we would be able to afford our stay in the hotel and traveling to Karachi but for them it may be too expensive.
2) I only have 3 khalas in Islamabad and only a few cousins as rest are all settled abroad. He has entire family including his two married sisters with their kids, his khala, phupoo, mamoo etc in Karachi. If the nikah was held in Islamabad then my parents thought that maybe most his family wouldn't be able to attend and why put them in such a situation when we could easily afford to do it in Karachi?

-My dad to this day keeps blaming himself for leaving me in Karachi with them. My husband insisted, his mom, his mamoo, everyone insisted. They wanted to do my 'daawats'. They wanted to spend time with me. My dad says that if that was the case then he should have left me in the hotel, asking them to pick me up in the mornings and drop me back off at nights. He really regrets not listening to my khalas. It was a biggest mistake on our part.

-I am not arrogant. In fact, I am a 'I cannot say no to anyone' kind of girl. I am just extremely shy with strangers and it takes me a while to feel comfortable around them. My husband knew that from before so there were no surprises there. What I did not like was him leaving me all alone with his mami, khala, cousins, sisters etc and running off to have fun with his one sister. We would talk for a few mins and then there would be awkward silence while I could see my husband a few yards away playing cricket or sitting on a jhoola or just walking quietly or sitting with his elder sister (the divorced one). That is why I always felt so lonely. I just wanted him to sit beside me for a few minutes and help me mix in with his family and I even told him that but he just never cared.

-I never complained to them about mosquitoes or breakfast. I always made breakfast for me, his mom and him in the mornings. I was just talking about my first morning there ever. I tried waking my husband up that morning to ask him to just show me where everything was. His mom was sleeping on the bed in that room so he just called out her name and told her 'ammi is ko nashta day dain', and went back to sleep. I felt so awkward that I told her to just stay where she was and I would find something, which I did eventually.

-We were never going to celebrate out 'honeymoon'. My parents were still in Islamabad when we planned to go. Our plan was to go to Islamabad in the morning, see around in Islamabad with my khala's driver and then book two rooms in the hotel for the night (he did not want to stay at my khala's house). Then next morning we would have gone to muree, roamed around a bit, and then come back by evening and taken a daibo (coach) from islamabad to Lahore and my mamoo would have received us in Lahore. We would have again booked two rooms in Lahore with my mamoo taking us around all day and then dropping us back in the hotel at night. His mom knew this plan. She even said yes at first, in fact gave me advises on what to wear and what not to wear. She told me to pack pants for muree as 'no one wore gotay walay kapray there', and to pack lawn (not cotton) for Lahore because it would be 'too hot there'. What hurt me was that a few hours before we were to depart, his sister, him and his mom went behind closed doors and changed plans among themselves and no one even bothered informing me.

-I went straight to the hotel because I was extremely depressed. You can't imagine the emotional trauma I was going through at their house. The night before him and I were supposed to be making dinner together but his mom took him out. We had bought ingredients and I waited for him and he finally came back from his mom's shopping at 9:30 pm and the light went out at that night. We decided to go on with our cooking in candlelight. The entire time we were cooking, his mom was in the kitchen. He even asked her to go sit in the room but she stayed there. His kitchen is smaller than his bathroom so three people in there at the same time was not really possible, therefore he stayed outside the kitchen for a bit and then eventually left to go to his friend's house across the hallway. I felt terrible because his mom knew that him and I had made plans to make dinner together. When the dinner was ready, I called him on his cell phone and he came back and went straight into the bedroom and sat on the bed with his mom. I asked him to come to the dinning room so that we could eat together but he refused to budge from that bed and asked him to serve him on the bed and sit either on the floor and eat or sit alone in the dinning room and eat there. I just sat on the floor at started eating my dinner. His elder sister came home just then and sat beside him on the bed and started eating from his plate. That little thing really really bothered me. I couldn't even sit beside him and eat yet and she was eating from the same plate. I asked her if I could get her food on a new plate but she said 'it's ok hum tou eik hi plate main kha laitay hain'. I couldn't eat my dinner anymore so I went to the living room and asked him a countless times (via text messages) to come talk to me but he didn't leave that room. I asked his youngest sister to please ask him to come to the living room for 5 mins but she came back saying how his mom said 'aap kamray main aa k baat kar lain'. It may be a small thing for some but I just felt so hurt at that time. I cried myself to sleep that night. The next day my parents even insisted that I go to the hotel without telling his mom and they asked him to not tell his family either because I needed to sleep in peace. He even agreed with it because at his apartment there was always some aunty or another there gossiping and I wouldn't have gotten the quiet and peace I needed.

-I did not stand up for myself because I did not want to offend his mother. My mom had begged me to stay quiet in their house. She had asked me 'agar kuch bura bhi lagay tou chup kar jana, baad main bata daina'. He had asked me that if I didn't like anything, I should stay quiet and tell him about it later. Plus at that time I knew we were going for our little trip in less than 24 hours and I did not want to say anything to upset his mom. I did try explaining to her that why my mom asked for rukhsati after agreeing upon nikah but I could barely get my word in.

-The reason we asked for rukhsati was because
a) My parents spent a lot of money on this 'nikah'. My mom said in clear words that they couldn't afford to do another big function like this.
b) My mom had traveled anywhere after 15 years. She gets really sick when she travels and this time she had to take sleeping pills with her so that she would stay asleep throughout the flight. She told them in clear words that she cannot travel again after two years because this one trip took it's toll on her pretty bad.
c) If rukhsati took place then after he returned to UK, I could travel from here and visit him every few months. My parents said that they would pay the down payment on an apartment for us and as soon as he came to Canada, we could move out together. According to them, the earlier we started our life on our own the earlier we would settle down.

-His mom did not want the rukhsati because
a) His elder sister from Dubai couldn't attend his shaadi in Karachi due to short notice (even though everyone got over a month notice).
b) His youngest sister was to be married off first before his rukhsati could take place.

-When I came back to Canada my parents still said that after he went back to England, I could visit him and they wouldn't mind. But, his mom is not letting him go back to England. He has one year left for his course but his mom says that she is too sick and needs him to take care of her now. My mom talked to him in detail yesterday and according to her, he said that he is even depressed living in Pakistan because there are so many restrictions on him. He can't go anywhere or do anything without asking his mom because 'the halaat are so kharab and she knows what is good and what isn't'. He said that he is worried about the money because the money he gave his mom for 6 months of ghar ka kharcha, she spent on a gold set for his youngest sister. Since he is in Pakistan, he doesn't have a job and he said that even he wants to go back to UK but his mom gets high blood pressure and starts shivering everytime he talks about returning so he just stopped talking about it. I had a long discussion with my parents yesterday and now both are telling me to wait. My dad said that he would talk to my husband in detail in a week or so and then they would try to figure out 'is maslay ka hal', though I am not sure whether there is any solution for this masla.

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man …

maammmo ki betiyan are the best :dannyboy: why are we arguing here : O

OP is wrong. wrong wrong wrong.

i wanna kick some people :rolleyes:

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

since we are discussing tradition, lets understand another tradition that's common in pk ; )

mothers agree to a son's "pasand ki shaadi" and become all achey in his eyes

and even get a nikah done (being muslims we should acknowledge that)

and then plot their evil schemes and wanna break up relationships.

this one's a keeper.

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

Ashy i am not agreed here with you. You are trying to say that if we follow only Islam we will create disorder in society. But i think Islam is a complete religion and if we follow it (in a balance way not extremiest type way) our society will be better place.

There is no harm in meeting before Rukhsati. Its upto the people whether they control themselves or not. Jinhy kuch kerna hota hia woh Engagement k baad bhi ker lety hain.

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

Meeting after is usually not an issue in Pakistan. The issue is 'being together' which is NOT approved by our elders. There is no use in arguing over this issue as no one can deny the importance of nikah and no importance of rukhsati in Islam. Its just that rukhsati is GIVEN importance in our society and like many other nagtives of our society, we have to agree to this. I agree the change is needed. Lets see how this change will be brought about.

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

So we should go back to burning brides, burying baby girls too and keep on killing women for nothing. Because that will make God happy that we're following our culture and traditions. :)

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

actually islamically when the a couple are married (i.e. nikkahfied) it is "preferable" not to keep them apart ... kindly read ahadith to further your knowledge

this only happened because hazrat aisha was really young at the time of her nikkah... please dont take an isolated incident in islam and make it a rule...

@OP im truly sorry at the treatment you receive, however no one can give you the ryte advice,...only you know your circumstances 100%... only you know what your gut instinct is telling you... based on my personal experience i suggest you go the path your intuition is telling you to go with...its not a scientific method by any means obviously but there is a reason we all have intuition and in my experience a womans intuition is never wrong (provided she doesnt have some kind of grudge against someone :P like obviously if you hate your MIL and think she is a witch [im not saying thats the case with you] then your intuition about her will be marred by your feelings towards her) ...take whatever advice you receive with a grain of salt...evaluate it against your situation and take whatever advice you think is sound in light of your circumstances.

good luck to you

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

Its always easy to make God happy but it is always difficult to make people happy. In religion there is nothing like "tradition". Then why should we give them importance. If we start following traditions then what not would happen in our society.

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

Practices you quote are against Islam. Yaar I am not supporting any practices and traditions which are AGAINST Islam. I just say there is no harm in following traditions which are NOT against Islam. E.g. joint family system, involvement of parents in decisions like marriage etc. Traditions like jehaiz are against Islam so I am not supporting them.

But just for the sake of opposition, we should not blindly oppose ALL traditions. They make us distinctive from other nations. Arabs also have their own traditions which they are following along with the religion.

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

at the risk of being attacked by all the boys joint family system is undesirable in islam...involvement of parents is NOT against islam and jahez is against islam(you're ryte on those two points) ... it is undesirable in islam to keep a husband and wife apart after marriage (nikkah) so even if you argued that there is not harm in following traditions that are not against islam a gap between rukhsati and nikkah are islamically undesirable (according to ahadith) you could argue that undesirable doesnt necessarily mean its against islam its just not looked favorably on but then you're getting into minor technicalities

but i do agree with u that there is no harm in following traditions that r not against islam but then the question becomes does that include traditions that may be islamically undesirable or are we just concerned with those that are blatantly against islam and its ok to follow those that are just islamically undesirable ? and the other question is where to you draw the linewhen following traditions for which you can find neither support nor opposition in islam. how much value should be placed on tradition versus religion?

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

The thing is that we Pakistanis continue to confuse religion and traditions. I think if we on the individual basis quit traditions which are against Islam or undesirable in Islam, we can improve our society and the traditions will automatically become according to Islam. E.g. If families start to give more importance to Nikah than rukhsati, the importance of rukhsati will hopefully be decreased over time in our society.

Thus in order to bring positive a change, we WILL HAVE to become true Muslims and this means following Islam COMPLETELY with giving full importance to parda, hijab, women rights etc. The traditions will automatically be transformed according to Islam.

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

^Will parda, hijab women's rights etc be the solution to wussy husbands and over protective mummies?

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

with respect to parda there has always been debate whether parda means literal parda or whether the concept is allegorical ... that is a hugely debated area of religion for which a consensus has not yet been reached... so it may not be rather conuter productive to include that as one of your examples however you may include singing and dancing promiscuity etc because those are not debatable

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

What makes a wussy husband? lol?

There's no debate as far as I know. Parda means hijab for muslim women, which is all of the body w/ the maximum of face and hands showing.

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

actually there have been debates (ive been audience to many of these in various cities in pakistan, but havent heard of any debates on this subject in the middle east, dunno fi its ever been debated in india or US, but in pakistan it has been debated many a times)...and the debate is related to what the word hijab means(is it required in the literal sense more or the figurative sense more) and whether it is required or desirable...

PS: hijab as an arabic word means veil and if you take veil in the literal sense the woman cant even show her face...

ill admit to being inaccurate when i said there have always been debates... but there have indeed been many debates

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

Many scholars are saying that in this times of fitnah, niqaab is wajib So, what you said about hijab is actually true.

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

So there was a reason ( what ever it may be) that Rukhasti didn't took place i.e. the in-laws of the girl was not ready ( for whatever reason) to take in a new member...

In case you have not noticed, that Nikkah make them husband and wife, but they still do not spend time alone or go to honey moon unless the rukhsati is there... for which you already said that MUFT KA KAAM NAHI... now which part you are not getting... there are reasons for the different conditions for idat before and after rukhsati...

if one is so eager to keep the husband and wife together after the nikaah then announce the rukhsati with the nikaah..it only takes two minutes of the time... and nothing else, if one is so bound to Islam that Nikaah is final word for them then y they do not find courage to announce rukhsati with Simplicity and least of the cost.... what is the problem here???

Re: Marrying a Pakistani man ...

I dont get one thing.....When there was no rukhsati what were you doing in the guy's home after nikkah??
& if rukhsati is not as important (according to some people here), then why all the fuss about it?

Also a person's attitude should not depend on location... the guy is ok in UK but in pak he is behaving so weirdly.....imo the guy is not strong enough to rely on.....his behaviour with his newly wed was very rude/inconsiderate
Dont think in Canada being away from family might help...the family always finds a way to meddle if they want...the person should know how to keep everyone in their place which clearly this guy doesnt.

I am surprised how he dared to marry you and not his cousin when he cant even breathe without his family's approval