Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

I agree with the first part of your comment. The choice is obviously for the individual to make - and they have to live with the consequences of their decision: good, bad or indifferent. But from a personal accountability perspective, I think that I too will be answerable to Allah on the day of judgement, and if He should ask: "One of my ummat was following the wrong path, what did you do to stop them from faltering?" I would like to be able to say that I spoke up against the actions that I thought were wrong. While I cannot make the decision for the other person, but I can and should voice my objections and teach/tell them what it right. Beyond that, they are responsible for themselves.

I know it may sound melodramatic to some - but hey, that's just my take on it shrugs

As for the rest, are they (a good/moral non-Muslim person) destined to hell - I don't know - it's not for me to make that judgement*. **But* then why am I teaching my children about Islam if a person's good deeds determine their judgement on the day of Judgement - I guess I'm too simplistic to divorce the idea of practicing Islam from the determination of what happens in the afterlife. Again, just my thoughts.

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

it still amazes me that a good hearted nonmuslim like mother theresa was still seen to be sent to hell by Allah as self sacrificing as she was. hey if a great nonmuslim like her is in this hell then i don't want to be in heaven either. company of good nonmuslims like her would be a joy for me to be around in "hell".

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

Uh there's your first problem. When you really start critically looking at religion, it doesn't always hold up.

People look at everything in religion as something holy and spiritual instead of thinking, maybe the dude was just trying to grow his followers and ensure that they stayed loyal.

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

Personally, I think the company would be the least of my worries in Hell... :P

As for the issue at hand, I think the best thing for you to do is sit your brother down and talk it out. Obviously, if he's made up his mind, there's nothing you can do to stop him, especially if he believes he's in the "right" as far as Islam is concerned. But whatever happens, stick by your brother, even if he makes the wrong choice. Because it's better for him to have the support of his family through the (undoubtedly) difficult times ahead. Being alone would just allow him, and his family, to drift further away from Islam.

By the way, the reason I'm doubtful of the fact that marrying a non-Muslim is "allowed" in this case, is because it comes with the stipulation that the children have to be raised Muslim.

My question is: how?

If the mother herself is so against Islam that she will not convert, then how will she ever let her children follow a religion she does not believe in? How will she ever allow her children to ignore what she feels is right -- what she feels will get them into heaven? I just don't believe that she'd let her children go to Hell (from her point of view).

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

EXACTLY!!
Thats the biggest point that's keeping all the doubts alive. Right now they are saying it but you know, easier said than done!!

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

Let me pretty much rephrase what you said to see if I can answer it better.
Take a scale and place a person who has all these good akhlaq and deeds you mentioned but does not believe Allah swt exists on one side of the scale and take a guy who lacks all these qualities but still firmly believes in the Oneness of Allah swt and that Mohammad is his last Prophet on the other side of the scale and see which one weighs heavy?
My answer: Allahu-Alim
I don't think any of us are really in the position to decide on this but we all know that even though the guy in this case is not going to be held accountable for marrying a Non-Muslim, he is still obligated to raise kids who are good Muslims and have all the qualities you mentioned which in itself can get really hard. Children try to imitate their parents and look up to them. It's their mom and not a next-door neighbor so this guy will have to work much harder in making them understand why he's asking them to adhere to certain rules that mommy wont.
But who knows, maybe this guy is being made a source for her from Allah swt. Maybe this will be a chance for her and her kids.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the focus for him should be to raise children who are Muslims and have all these good qualities. Choosing between the two choices shouldn't be an option for him or any other Muslim parents. He might not be able to justify the fact that his kids aren't even Muslims by saying that they're still good people and much better human beings than many other Muslims out there.
Doesn't work that way.. IMO

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

if she believes in one God and dont associate jesus to God, more than a messenger of Him SWT, then what is a problem?

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

The problem is she doesn't.

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

Well, like most of the christians ofcourse she believes jesus as the son of God. And I really want to know if my brother can still marry her.

And as a update, my brother has recently spoken with my mom and emphasized her to give an approval very quickly. My mother, on the other side has been reluctantly getting in favor of this as she's now saying she cant see her son in stress. When she spoke with me, she was literally crying which was very painful sight. Not sure if my brother has ever thought about all this!
It looks like we are slowly progressing towards our first out-of-religion relationship within the family and not sure what else is going to happen after that!!

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

^ I haven't read the entire chain of emails - but clarify something please - in what faith will the children be raised?

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

There's nothing much you or your family can do about it

Asking you guys to present logical concerns, where he himself is being unreasonable as he already has his mind made up...........& not everything can be explained with a logic/reason, thats why terms like uncertainty etc exist

As for the kids, i dont think he is seriously considering that matter right now......i doubt the girl will let them be raised as muslims

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

Let the time decide and stop worrying!

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

if you guys re bringing religion into it the Yes you are allowed to marry a christian or a jew, but the condition is that she must be a virgin, ( whereas in islam she does not have to be a virgin, ie she could be divorced, or lost her virginity but repented ) .

but i totally understand your mother's reluctance, she is thinking maybe down the line it might not work out etc

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

If it makes you feel better, mother Teresa would have believed that if you were to die in your current state (not being Christian, not accepting Jesus as your saviour etc.), you'd also be going to hell, regardless of what good deeds you.

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

You go to the wedding and enjoy the biryani , qorma and sheermaals.
It is for him to think what will be the repercussions of his decision to marry a non-Muslim woman.
If he has worked out the details already then what is bothering you. They are grownups and they have the right to live their life they want the way they want. It is allowed in Islam. You are ruining the fun you could have from the news that your brother is getting married to a woman. What could you do if he announced that he is marrying a man. Desi folks are doing so too now as I have heard.

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

alot of things in Islam are legal but not the preferred or liked 'legal' in the eyes of Allah. Marrying into ehl-e-kitab is permissible. But let's think of the bundle of consequences that would follow esp when their child is born.

Wouldn't both parents be wanting their child to be of their faith. the kid would be the one to suffer a lot?

there's a very thin line b/w right and wrong and when they both merge together - one doesnt even know where he/she is standing.

they should just think about the future generation:

  1. Would the child have a Muslim or a christian name
  2. would he go to the mosque or the church
  3. would he fast and celebrate Eids or would he be celebrating christmas or easter
  4. and the most important of all what religion would he follow eventually

apparently at this moment things would all seem to be working out well - but the clashes that would follow would be too hard to handle !

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

I don't really think there's much you can do at this point, because the real issue here is not that your brother is marrying a non muslim but that he himself is not a practising muslim(which is why he's also ok with marrying a non muslim). If your brother himself cannot provide a strong influence towards Islam then yes chances are the kids will gravitate towards the mothers religion and culture. But thats really his fault, if your brother himself isn't concerned about the religion of his children then there's nothing you can do.

Although I know its hard because when you love someone you feel you want to guide them down the right path I think you just have to accept that he is marrying her. All you can do is be supportive towards him and when his children are born do everything you can do to provide them with muslim values and influence so they at least have some knowledge of it and then the rest is up to them. Your mother spent so much effort trying to raise you guys as good muslims, and it didn't really work on him. Its not your mothers fault of course but the point is there's only so much you can do and then the rest is up to the individual. Focus on building a good relationship with your future in law and be open and honest so she understands the concepts behind eid and other events and hopefully she will be open to participating in such things and have an increased awareness of islam and your culture.

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

Ok Sehrysh, my brother is saying and the girl is apparently agreed on this as of now that the children will be raised as a Muslim. But with their mother as a practicing Catholic and father as a non-religious muslim, I really see it hard how the children would be good muslims. Afterall a muslim is not the one who knows kalma only and rest of the things do as per athiests or non-muslims. We want the children to be good muslims too but as of now it looks like too much to ask for! :(

Yes you are so right.. it seems like my brother is not getting anything at all what we are saying. And let me tell you a very interesting fact. He's the one who says that he's not emotional at all, rather thinks logically and uses brain than heart. Practically I dont see it in this case atleast.

Sehar I wish it can be so simple..

Yes my mother is the most worried person in this whole scenario. With my father not alive, she's feeling too much pressure. She's even worried about things like how would she let my other sisters' husbands and their families know about it as it'd be the first case in our family history and this was something nobody would expect.
But again, she's very helpless and in fact we all are.

Ya'r rite! I wish we could be that insensitive as you've written. But we gotto think what's going to happen down the road. This can impact not only him but also everyone in our family.
And yes things could be much worse but that can always be the case and doesnt justify enough for us to stop worrying.

You pretty much summed it. If it happens, well I see it happening soon actually, then we all are agreed not to leave our brother, rather be close to him and then try to be a good muslim and set an example for our future bhabi and their children and who knows, things may change later. There is always a hope!!

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

I would really like to know your source for that ruling, I don't recall reading that condition in the Quran.

Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..

is there a virginity test? i wanna buy a few..