Marital Rape......

Re: Marital Rape......

There is always a flip-side. People are quoting the hadith of the angels cursing the woman who refuses to have sex with her husband, however there is also the hadith where the Prophet SAWS has said:

"Not one of you should fall upon your wife like an animal. But let there first be a messenger between you two. Upon asking who/what the messenger was, Rasool SAWS said that the messenger was kisses and words." (Daylami)

1-Yes, I am aware that if the husband treats the wife with respect and approaches her in the manner prescribed in the above hadith and she still denies him without valid reason, she's being unjust. However, nowhere is it stated in the above hadith that if she's being unjust that he then has the right to force himself upon her as an animal.

2-Before some of the Guppies on here get upset, let me first say and emphasize that it's a TWO-WAY street. The wife has an obligation toward her husband and vice versa.

3- A couple is not going to have sex everyday. However they will have to interact with each other in daily affairs and the quality of those interactions affects their children if they have any. A guy can force himself on his wife and act out his pent up sexual frustration for the next 5-10 minutes, but will he not feel like crap afterwards for forcing himself upon her? Is it worth it? If a guy feels rejected when his wife refuses sex, will his self-esteem be in better shape after he gets what he wants from her by force? If the marriage is already strained due to lack of sex, will it not become more strained after the deed is done?

4-There are many animalistic instincts/emotions we have within us. One of them, for example, is anger. It may feel great to get that pent-up anger out of your system by unleashing its fury on the cause of its ire, be it your wife or sibling or friend etc. You may feel lighter at first, but soon afterward what tends to happen? You feel like crap for your loss of control, for letting this instinct overwhelm you to the point that you stoop to the behavior of an animal. It is merely the loss of control over such a small organ; your tongue. But it damages an already strained relationship.

5-Let me make it clear that I am not saying that it's okay for a wife to hurt her husband with invalid refusals and that, too, frequently. The point that I am trying to make is that if the refusal is cruel, so is the imposition/zabardasti. BOTH attitudes and actions hurt a marriage. A few of the guys on here who are okay with the idea of a husband forcing himself upon his wife should also consider the after-effects of such a step not only upon their own conscience/zameer but upon their spouse and marriage.

6- I can understand the idea that a guy may get so carried away during sex that it takes a while for him to "stop" after his wife has said. She should try to keep this in mind as opposed to rushing to accuse him of raping her especially if has no history of abuse. At the same time, courtesy demands that he try his utmost to "stop" is she's feeling discomfort.

7- There was a poster who received some flak for placing a guy's "sister" in this situation. Perhaps the poster could have avoided the graphic details. However, if some of the Guppies on here found the "sister" example so distasteful........then this sentiment is a testament to the fact that your conscience/zameer finds the idea of falling forcefully upon your wife to be disturbing. You may not want to call it rape. That's fine, but the fact remains that you find it disturbing and no better ....if not worse.....than a wife's deliberate refusal. And therefore, trying to validate is more an indication of a wounded ego and not of logic or ethics or mardaangi.

Re: Marital Rape......

Kinzz @ very sensible post, my view is still slightly different, a girls body belongs to her and she does not owe sex to any one and has a right to say no without providing justification, are men required to justify specially if they are older and not up to the task anymore, about putting bread in someone's mouth work force is comprised equally of men and women here, even if she is a stay at home parent the economic value of that is more than many men make. Principle is my body my choice..SEX IS NOT A DUTY...

Re: Marital Rape......

Top post.

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There is something called conjugal rights. Denial of intimacy without a justified cause can be a reason for divorce.

Btw, if u believe in my body, my choice Principle, r u okay with spouses sleeping around with others? After all it's their body, their choice.

Re: Marital Rape......

With respect you have very wrong ideas at many levels.

In marriage relation, both partners do have rights on and obligations/duties to, each others.

*In marital relation, one cannot say its my body or sex is not a duty. Period.
*

The very idea of considering sex in marriage as a duty is fundamentally wrong.

Both partners have to be willing to give each other pleasure/happiness in every possible way including sexual gratification.

There is no such thing in marital relation as my space and your space.

When they agree to live with each other they better leave their egos behind and live like more than friends.

This is all spread too much on media or by mostly 'enlightened/" people or feminazis.

Islam removes all those reasons where someone even has to be left unsatisfied and not having sexcual gratification from other partner CAN be considered ground for divorce. (Not necessarily proscribed but can be).

Wife can ask for divorce if man cannot provide her satisfaction. Or if one partner cannot procreate other CAN ask for divorce.

Now, it all depends at what level these partners are interacting with each other on daily basis.

**If it does come to a point that husband has to force, then why are they even together?

It means neither of these two have any respect for each other enough to live under one roof.**

Like others say, Islam never said husbands are allowed to force themselves over their wives.

This a myth created by anti-Islam and Anti-Muslim people like many other myths.

Re: Marital Rape......

[quote="diwana"]

With respect you have very wrong ideas at many levels.

In marriage relation, both partners do have rights on and obligations/duties to, each others.

*In marital relation, one cannot say its my body or sex is not a duty. Period.
*

The very idea of considering sex in marriage as a duty is fundamentally wrong.

Both partners have to be willing to give each other pleasure/happiness in every possible way including sexual gratification.

There is no such thing in marital relation as my space and your space.

When they agree to live with each other they better leave their egos behind and live like more than friends

YOU have rights to property not to person and reading a lot of posts sadly I feels that a lot of people still consider women as property, as a married man you have the right to win her over everyday, you can't be ignorant towards her all day and go open sesame a night, women are sexual beings also and if they refuse you is it possible that the problem might be your behavior, the top reasons sighted by women for saying no were that they were tired, husbands were rude toward them, they did not feel connected.

If only life was so simple, my simple diwana. sometimes marriage needs fixing and work, they are saying no until you work on your marriage
** and relationship,
**perhaps stop being rude, look after your body and hygiene, a friend of mine did not get any for years after he cheated on his wife, they worked on the problem and now have a happy relationship.

If it was easy in Pakistan for girls to get divorced
they would leave their husbands more often.

Here in Canada Pakistani girls are getting the husbands arrested regularly and divorcing them.

Re: Marital Rape......

^Answer to your PM, since you have chosen not to receive PMs.

See dude @ shawns , those who love their families don't take a jibe at other's families. Now i couls have insulted your mother from the beginning, but instead chose to keep the things ta the same level that you started, but , alas you went ahead and making me respond to you in same manner. You are disrespecting your own family by doing this. What a shame. edited.

Marital Rape......

I am sorry but this link just went beyond me!
Talked about marital rape!
Guy gives an answer!
You ask him the reference!
He gives a reference!
You change it from a religious topic to a socio-national one
Abuse comes in!
I mean seriously?
Argue for the sake of argument!? Thats whats bin up here and really pissed me off!
Some comments even reaching out as far as oh why is it not simple! I am sorry but you dont know the "alif bey" but are willing to argue about whats so deep in the Quran! Atleast fear God people!
Dont argue about everything while you dont know anything!

Re: Marital Rape......

[note] This is a reminder to all that inflammatory language will not be tolerated. Please refrain from getting personal and stay on topic.[/note]

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^You're late

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^ as usuall

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I thought the reason why people got married was they could have convenient sex at specified times. It seems like an oxymoron to me to be married and then rape your spouse.

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Have you people honestly never heard of domestic violence or a husband asserting dominance over his wife in a threatening and abusive manner? Good god, wish I had such rose colored lenses on....

In a normal, healthy and functioning marriage, yes, rape does not occur. A wife "not being in the mood" or haveing to be cajoled into saying yes is not rape.

A husband who forces himself on his wife in a violent manner to punish her, teach her a lesson, or abuse her is a rape, regardless if their is a nikkah between the two of them or not. It does exist, it does happen, and is very real.

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For the constant victim players attempting to drag in religion in wrong sense purposefully.

Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 68:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Zam'a:
The Prophet forbade laughing at a person who passes wind, and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?" And Hisham said, "As he beats his slave".

And now this is regardless of how much i agree or disagree with Iconoclast posts. The last post by Iconoclast suggests that shawn dragged in his family in PM convos.
Shawn i wonder how a man who has no respect for others family to the extent of dragging in their mom, have no respect for religion, shamelessly attacking ahadees picking those parts that he wishes to;** is ever going to give woman the respect and **rights she deserves. Period.

May Allah's help be with you.

Re: Marital Rape......

I am not sure that you saw the unimaginable and hedonistic comments posted by this hadith and Quran quoting muslim that the moderators took down, My society is protecting my family, if this discussion enlightens a few then good for them, In the end your society will decide as how to treat women..being in law enforcement we are trained to deal with bullies on their own terms. Its funny how people simplify things....

Just so you know my interest in this situation I can share a victims story that I dealt with, most beautiful girl as innocent as angels, sweet, kind loving, warm and caring has an arranged marriage with scum of the earth Pakistani guy whose family took millions of Pakistan money from the orphaned girls family..she gets here and the grooms family starts abusing this girl and demanding more money...lets call her M, M who liked the guy before has now lost all respect for him and can't stand to be near him...in the daytime they blackmail her and at night time he wants his conjugal rights...this is when the neighbors called us and we took this girl to shelter and the guy was charged and convicted of sexual battery....here is this beautiful girl that the boyz in detachment would kiss the ground she walked on being black mailed by a Pakistani guy....need less to say the state became her ward...she got university education and has a good life....No matter what scripture you quote...the guy still would get arrested and convicted for rape...

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So no holding hands, walking into the sunset, sharing life experience, growing old together..eh...lol...Socrates quote was. " All you need in life is one person to love and one person to love you back." Not one person to do whenever you want, Imagine this romantic proposal, " honey I think we should get married as it is not very convenient to try to look for sex at 2 am. "

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We desi people don't do that.

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How do you spend time with your loved ones, I would be so interested to know, what happens after the kids leave home...I see so many younger SE Asian people do a lot of activities together, so much more than before.

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Cannot believe people are using Islam to justify something as cruel as abuse and rape.

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?
That was a desi joke. Alhamdulillah, I spend a lot of time with my loved ones, we do a lot of activities together. I'm also proud of respecting my mother and her decisions which is sort of a forbidden fruit in Life1.