Marital Rape......

Lifestyle Relationships
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Re: Marital Rape......

Excellently summed up sweefs! TLK Bhaiyya, your post applies to a normal marriage and normal people. Like sweefs, I am in no way a feminazi, however I totally disagree with the way you simplified the concept of "marital rape". It's not about a wife saying no to her husband unecessarily or just not being in the mood. It's about a husband forcing himself upon his wife as an act of aggression, control and abuse...it is very real, does happen more often than we'd like to think and most certainly is not a term coined by shady lawyers or lazy housewives.

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[quote="khattichic, post:34658, topic:141889"]

Excellently summed up sweefs! TLK Bhaiyya, your post applies to a normal marriage and normal people. Like sweefs, I am in no way a feminazi, however I totally disagree with the way you simplified the concept of "marital rape". It's not about a wife saying no to her husband unecessarily or just not being in the mood. It's about a husband forcing himself upon his wife as an act of aggression, control and abuse...it is very real, does happen more often than we'd like to think and most certainly is not a term coined by shady lawyers or lazy housewives.
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It seems that medieval mindset of treating women as possessions is alive and thriving in some cultures, at best women are being taken for granted...horrible disgusting ideas of..marriage being an unconditional licence to force your will on your partner are being tabled...none of the posters discussed the art of courting, wooing, romancing and seducing...It seems that these boys are considering themselves as gods gift to the ladies and believe that they don't need to work on a relationship on a daily basis.

I respect sweet i.f but appetites can be changed....shave, shower, exercise..buy her flowers, show your appreciation, listen to her, include her in decision making help her with house chores, take her to the beach, go camping with her..do things that she likes and I think the appetites..may surprise you...I have been told that it is a physical act for us..but an emotional act for our loved ones ...I feel sad for losers who demand love and affection...you cannot force someone to love you...love and fear don't live in the same place..

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Stahp

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K

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absolutely. i was going to mention this but i'm not married so i'd probably have the aunties and uncles telling me off. instead of using force or divorcing and the sorts.. why don't they mix things up a bit? what's the harm in showing affection, doing things your spouse likes, making them happy?

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Marital Rape......

I'm not sure why people are having a hard time accepting that domestic abuse exists even in our Pakistani communities in very large numbers. Similarly to the way it does in middle eastern communities.

My cousin was working in an organization that helped new immigrant /refugee woman settle in Canada last year and her being Pakistani, she would mainly get assigned with Urdu speaking only or Muslim woman and she would deal with new patients everyday experiencing some kind of trauma due to their abusive environments. It was shocking how common this problem is. You think that everyone is like you and your own family or like the people around you but they are not. Many of these people are not active members of a community that you see all the time. It exists mainly with in certain classes but it does exist and yes in high numbers. Another cousin of mine who is a psychiatrist in Montreal also worked for 6 months in a Karachi hospital in 2007 and she also worked with battered woman. The occurrence of these cases is really high. Woman in lower social classes have it hardest because they usually don't have an out.

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I learnt the most important lesson of my life from this mature German lady that came from blue blood, she said to me that men are really stupid in matters of love if only they would realize that if man gives a woman one unit of love a woman gives back ten times, following her suggestion turned out to be the best trade of my life, I am showered with love and affection every day. Love is about giving and not taking, It is about freeing not controlling, it is about empowering not dominating...it should be unconditional. I played hard, partied hard nice vacations sports cars hard drinking and all...but in the end nothing made me happier than being loved back by the person I love.

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Marital Rape......

But I'm not sure if love and affection apply to all marriages that were talking about in this thread.

I don't see an extremist who uses writings from the Quran as rights to abuse his partner would know very much about love and affection in a marriage. Don't think it would even apply.

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There is always hope....I was a real jerk to my wife in the early years of our relationship...but thankfully she loved me enough to stand by my side during my dark times...people only learn by observing, I grew up in an abusive environment so that was the only way I knew how to be....but then sought help and I was given another perspective that changed my life.

Turning into a nicer person is just a thought away...

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Re: Marital Rape…

I meant marital rape. Marital sex was a typo.

and I got more likes than you do so I won. :snooty:

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elol. its more about perspectives than likes and victory :barbie: tho i knew you were kidding on this. the fact that most of us fail to acknowledge, is that there are always two sides of a coin. generalization never does good. I for myself, and you tlk bhai and other who dont agree with marital rape (in context of the hadith where refusing women are condemned) because we have nt ever been into such a situation ever so prolly cant imagine. And more than anything.else, I agree to the word on what you.said on marital rape’s status in.islam. if its not.recognised in islam, its for.a reason. but we have examples. hazrat zaid.bin haris’ wife who was beloved prophet sal.Allah o aleh wassalam’s cousin also, divorced him and married the beloved prophet simply because she wanted to. So its not that Islam encourages women’s certain denial.of rights and enforces her to be an object of sex thats it. If anything, marital.rape is a form.of domestic.voilence and abuse like many others. I dont believe a person who.forces himself on his wife in front of.kids and.all the.other.horrible instances, would be an.angel.otherwise. And if.he is a maniac, this is what he is. And in that case its not limited to marital rape.only. All type of domestic abuse and voilence is bad. and its equally bad for.the whole of.the family.

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That is disgusting.

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Tlk: did* do you WANT me to go all grammar nazi on you dammit :grumpy:

Mirage: Perspective is one word for it but I’d rather call it empathy. I dont need to be in a situation of rape to sympathise with a raped woman. Actually i dont quite understand. You are saying islam doesnt mention marital rape but then marital rape is a form of domestic violence thus being recognised in islam? Or is domestic violence not recognised either? She married the Prophet (saw) because she wanted to. This is what im saying about psychological effects on a woman who has been raped or abused in such a way that she doesnt think she deserves anything better or has nothing if she decides to leave her husband. Like i said before, most rapes are the result of “punishment” or anger.. pretty sure islam puts emphasis on treating your spouse with respect and not humiliating and degrading them. Ofcourse there are two sides to a story, the side that shows a battered/raped woman (or man) is the one that needs to be addressed first. Violence is NEVER the answer.

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sweet, i guess i couldnt make myself clear to you. may Allah never put you.or anyone into such a situation. my point was as simple as that my perspectice is limited coz I have nt heard from anyone having first hand experience of this. So I would naturally go bby the observation, opinion and perspective I have on a certain issue. I didnt say Islqm doesnt recognize domestic voilence, how can I. we all have a very clear and.oprn.understanding of husband/wife's rights and priviledges over each other in Islam. what i meant was when Islam doesnt take up marital rape as a separate issue it means to me it.is included in opression and domestic voilence as it.is. And definitely howevver much my knowledge be limited on islam, i know and believe Islam is against opression, it be of any kind.
Why I dont feel.like being a cheer leader against marital.rape and such slogans is becauae I have a firm faith in the hadith where refusing women have been.condemned so I cannot simply advocate every woman who would eefuse her husband have sexual intimacy unless she has a fair reason.and I equally believe this hadith is only for those women who do ot only to tease their husbands and such women must exist hence the hadith.

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Re: Marital Rape…

End of STORY1st: about this Hadith Bukhari - narrated Abu Hurairah “If a man calls his wife to bed and she refuses, and then he sleeps angry, the angels shall curse her until he awakens.” Vol 4 Book 54 Relation 460 abviously if “marital rape” was allowed and ok, then there will be an advice to the husband to take what he wants by force, but there is none. and this Hadith is about the Husband’s rights , as there are Hadiths about the wife’s rights .

in the Holy Quran there is many verses that order men to treat their wives in a way that pleases God. Allas says in the Holy Quran(Tafsir Ibn Kathir-the best tafsir imo ) (19. O you who believe! You are not permitted to inherit women against their will, nor to prevent them from marriage in order to get part of (the dowry) what you have given them, unless they commit open Fahishah. And live with them honorably. If you dislike them, it may be that you dislike a thing and Allah brings through it a great deal of good.) meaning ﴿وَعَاشِرُوهُنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ﴾ (And live with them honorably), by saying kind words to them, treating them kindly and making your appearance appealing for them, as much as you can, just as you like the same from them.

Allah said in another Ayah, ﴿وَلَهُنَّ مِثْلُ الَّذِى عَلَيْهِنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ﴾ (And they have rights similar over them to what is reasonable) ﴿2:228﴾. The Messenger of Allah said, «خَيْرُكُمْ خَيْرُكُمْ لِأَهْلِهِ، وَأَنَا خَيْرُكُمْ لِأَهْلِي» (The best among you is he who is the best with his family. Verily, I am the best one among you with my family.)

It was the practice of the Messenger of Allah to be kind, cheerful, playful with his wives, compassionate, spending on them and laughing with them. The Messenger used to race with A'ishah, the Mother of the Faithful, as a means of kindness to her. A’ishah said, "The Messenger of Allah raced with me and I won the race. This occurred before I gained weight, and afterwards I raced with him again, and he won that race. He said, «هذِهِ بِتِلْك» (This ﴿victory ﴾ is for that ﴿victory﴾.)‘’

Allah said, ﴿لَّقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ﴾ (Indeed in the Messenger of Allah you have a good example to follow) ﴿33:21﴾. Allah said, ﴿فَإِن كَرِهْتُمُوهُنَّ فَعَسَى أَن تَكْرَهُواْ شَيْئاً وَيَجْعَلَ اللَّهُ فِيهِ خَيْراً كَثِيراً﴾ (If you dislike them, it may be that you dislike a thing and Allah brings through it a great deal of good.)

Allah says that your patience, which is demonstrated by keeping wives whom you dislike, carries good rewards for you in this life and the Hereafter. Ibn `Abbas commented on this Ayah, "That the husband may feel compassion towards his wife and Allah gives him a child with her, and this child carries tremendous goodness.‘’ An authentic Hadith states,

Source:Yahoo Search - Web Search
din’t had the time to write it all and thus found a befitting answer online.

Conclusion:Both men and women have their rights.It is responsibility of both to care for each other.No forced or martial sex is justified by any laws whatsoever.Both hubby and wife should have good understanding,high drive is not abnormal but both should compromise a bit to keep each other happy.I am a strong protagonist of female rights as they are the ones who suffer=open world environment=reality.Fear ALLAH(S.A.W) and treat your wives fair and square.Make/keep them happy and you will succeed.p.s if a spouse is continuously ignoring his hubby(he goes senti/emo) then the wife is to blame

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PashtumWarrior is absolutely right. According to islam it is the right of the husband, and he can claim it. Although forcing your wife is wrong and selfish. It is not considered a crime like "rape". The rights of the husband are to the extent that, if its his need, he can ask his wife to break her nafl fasts, and it is her duty to obey him..

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No wonder our reputation around the world for women rights stinks. Its pretty painful seeing WOMEN justify all this ''she must obey him she must do this she must do that''. She must do everything 50-50, ab nokar toh hai nahi kisi ki.

''Hey honey, so like I want to do it right now but just to remind you I can claim what's my right and if you say no Angels will curse you all night'', I don't know about people but this line isn't exactly good for getting someone in the mood.

No?

My post seems a little harsh but like sweetif has said noone has mentioned that there is always the option to talk it out before resorting to religious blackmailing. :/

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Re: Marital Rape......

Consider these scenarios

Scenario 1:

Husb: Honey lets do it. Wife: No i am not in the mood. Husb: Cmon, honey, i am leaving and will miss u. Wife: No i am not in the mood. Husb: Ohh honey, cmoon.
Wife: Okay, but it better be quick. Fast forward and the two in the act, Wife: Okay, thats enough, stop it now. Husb: I am almost done. Then continues for another minute.

Scenario 2:
Husband comes home drunk and smelly. Puts his legs in lap of wife, she pushes him away, go away you are stinking and drunk. Man says, you *****, dont push me, then throws her on the bed, holds her down, gags her and does it .

Now in both cases woman can claim that her body has been violated, in scenario 1, even if she initially consented and was for a minute. In second scenario, there isn't any doubt.

I think what TLK meant was that law puts both in same category, though the two are very different.

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Forcing your wife IS a crime!!!

People don't seem to understand that Islam isn't that complex. Its pretty darn simple. A man is commanded to be kind to his wife. Forcing yourself on your wife, hurting her or beating her to get sex is considered abuse. Islam does NOT allow abuse.

It doesn't need to be explicitly stated in every single hadith that there are consequences for misconduct.

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Re: Marital Rape......

So my daughter can be "lightly" beat and raped by her pious Muslim husband without any consequences under Islamic law? Hmm ok