Re: Marital Rape......
TLK aur aap jaison mein bara farq hai.
Zehniyat aur tarbiyat ke lihaas se.
:)
Re: Marital Rape......
You can laugh, but, magar mujhe afsos is baat ka hai, ke i had to say this to a woman and that too a muslim, never imagined that I would do that, but you left me no choice. And its not the first time in this thread, even previously you have behaved in same way. While you may have no respect for desi men, I do respect women specially the desi ones.
No, you do not.
Your posts are ALWAYS inflammatory, anti-women, etc etc etc.
You have zero manners, zero class and have never possessed decorum.
And I guess I cannot fault you...you're a product of society that promotes this.
Re: Marital Rape......
^aap TLK sey hi kuch seekh laiN
Re: Marital Rape......
.
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As inappropriate as it may be I am not going to respond to U any more. It's enough for my conscious, of what I said, however, it was u who started it down this path.
Re: Marital Rape…
But you. To belittle the guys insulting you , you have to call them girls. Glad you hold the female gender in such high regard
Lets get back to playing feminist feminist again
You never cease to impress me by your beautiful use of expressions
So quran recitation in namaz is just plain Arabic kay alfaz to you whether done knowing the meaning or not.
and you have been appointed a judge to decide someone’s namaz as uthak bethak and u sit inside someone’s head to know he understood or not what he recited.
Re: Marital Rape......
So some Pakistani Muslim men have no problem with their daughters being raped by their husbands?
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Wow, just unbelievably wow.:(
Maybe it's absolutely futile for me to even post my thoughts if they are not going to be considered with a calm/open mind. One has to let go of the ego to do that.
Growing up, my mom would often tell my siblings and me that the words "shut up" were incredibly rude in her zubaan (Urdu). Later on I understood that these words are so commonly thrown in English that they don't carry the same gravity they do when converted to Urdu/Punjabi. Why am I saying this? It's because I decided to get my mom's unbiased opinion on both Diwana's and Reha's remarks. My mom was born and raised in Pak just like 3-4 Guppies who are very upset about Reha's comment. I thought that maybe since my mom has the same cultural background as the Guppies, she could probably explain to me what I may not be grasp. I know my mom is just one person's opinion, but she is the kind who doesn't hesitate to tell me if I am wrong. I shared Diwana and Reha's posts with her and this is what she said:
Re: Marital Rape......
Diwana was trying to illustrate that some women have more sabar/bardasht after having gone through more tougher circumstances than other women who have been thru less and have so many nakhray/whims. But using the analogy of women and birthing to illustrate this was not the best. Yes, it is true in some cases that women who have so many children are emotionally tougher because they have to deal with enormous amount of responsibilities. But in some cases the woman who has fewer children might be faced with circumstances that require greater
attention/care from her husband/family.
Bottom line is that.....whether a woman has had 17 kids or just one....or even zero kids.....she deserves respect from her husband. As the hadith goes, "The best among you is the one who is best/kindest to his wife"....this hadith has not made the degree of a husband's care/respect dependent upon number of offspring. Rather...regardless the situation...a husband should strive or challenge himself to be his kindest to his wife....and kindness can/does include pampering and catering from time to time....and it should be a mutual consideration. Diwana, you could have simply said that some women are internally stronger than others without using an awkward/sensitive analogy.
2) Reha, from what I and mom understood from Diwana's post...the analogy is referring to things like sabar/bardaasht, etc. It wasn't necessary to bring in his mom. Diwana's post was dealing with the husband-wife dynamics, not mother and son. His belief that some women are more emotionally stronger than others.....has naught to do with his interactions with his mom. As strange as his analogy was, you could have addressed it from the viewpoint of husband-wife relationship. In another thread, I think another mod had asked the OP, a distressed DIl, if she treats her own parents in a certain unsavory way. Now the guppan did not complain about being chided so, but I can see how the assumption can be hurtful. So maybe family is best avoided. What you said was in NO way a gaali....I'm surprised it's being treated as such....but it can hurt to to be thought by others that we are incapable of respect to our parents; it pinches.
3) About Reha's comment...even my mom said that her comment is not a gali or show of disrespect toward the Diwana's mother.....but that it can be viewed as offensive....because it questions Diwana's character toward his mom. It questions his character and one can call it a an accusation or an ill assumption, but neither of these equate to a gaali toward Diwana or his mom. Not every offensive remark is a gaali. This is the same thing I said in Icono's blog. To give an example, if someone ...it could even be an aunti....said, " Rv, I'm like your mom and should be respected; is this how you treat you own mother"......it's not disrespect toward my mom.....but it would pinch me because of the negative assumption about my character. But even so, it's still not even a gaali toward me.
The thing to watch out for is that some people might stretch the comment to mean that "Ma ne tameez karna nahi sikhaya." So let's just avoid chiding members thru the use of their family members or other things like their education.....be it in the threads or blogs.
4) There were mistakes made from BOTH ends....unnecessary examples and reactions.
5) For those saying that it's such a "low thing" to do......I can admit that it wasn't appropriate to bring up Diwana's mother. But it would be MORE of a low thing to do if Reha had cursed the mother.....or made fun of the mother.....or said something like "Tumhari ma ne tumhe kuch sikhaya nahi?"..."Tumhari ma ne tumhari sahi tarbiyat nahi ki.".....that would be low...below the belt.
***I sometimes see guys develop such a strong sense of ghairat when their mom is mentioned in ANY capacity...be it even a neutral one ...or with the purpose to encourage reflection/empathy for women.....or one that awards the mother izzat".........but they won't hesitate to drop f-bombs and b-bombs when talking about other women or even to another woman. And right now I'm speaking generally.....I am not saying that the Guppies here do that.....but I want them to think about something:
Your mother did not enter this world as your mother. She is first a woman. But in terms of relations, she was FIRST someone's daughter, someone's sister, someone's wife.....BEFORE she even became your mother. You cannot isolate a mother from these other relationships...she embodies all of them at the same time. That is why a man who truly respects his mother.....also has respect for all other females. That same mother who raised him to respect her and his sisters......will never encourage disrespect in any capacity (gaaliyan, insinuations, body language, actions) toward any other females.
So much emphasis is put on "she stooped so low....haaw haaaaye she stooped so low".....as though everyone of us here displays such exemplary language/character on GS and especially outside at all times. And, NO, I am not justifying a Mod's or any member's mistake based on the reality that all of us, by nature, stoop "low" from time to time. Calm down and look at the conflict from both angles, ...look at it for what it is without emotional exaggeration......without ego and bias.
Decency ....requires tactful wording of examples/analogies.....it requires that one exclude unfavorable opinions about a member's upbringing/family.......and it also requires that one avoid insinuations of profanity either in the form of asterisks or actual words.
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A lot of cheap shots.
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And yes, in typical RV-style…it’s a long post again. But some people tend to point that out more than others. So go ahead…take your swings at my post. Liken it to king tut’s baby maker or what have you. Or respond with a “tl;dr”…or satiate the ego and wholly dismiss me as an emotional crazy cuz sense/logic and class only belong to a select few. It’s all predictable. 
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Naaaa… Both of your posts are pretty good. Spent 5+ minutes reading them 
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Short posts are overrated. Well thought out long posts are a pleasure to read.
Oh please, that’s absolutely hypocritical . The very subject of this thread is on the abuse of woman. Women who are mothers, daughters, sisters to somebody including you and the very person who the comment was geared at. There was no mud dragging at all. It’s a fact, we all have mothers, and if he cant put himself in the same shoes or other women in an abusive position on the same standard as his own mother/sisters then he should not be talking at all. Thats ridiculous. It just noise to take away from the focus of the actual topic. Diwana’s talking style is just as offensive since he can’t seem to leave his insults out of any of the points he wants to make. The use of “your stinky father on top of your mother” is an actual insult done by somebody above. Your talking about a thread on women and about abuse in a marriage possibly started by somebody who has no idea about either and all of a sudden the line is drawn when posters are told to put themselves in those shoes as these other woman because it could happen to anybody. What would your reaction be if this was any person in your family including your mother. If that’s offensive then that makes you/op/ diawana or whoever hypocritical because it is what it is.
Southie, I have no idea about what you and Reha discussed. I only understood that comment as directed towards Diwana, not you. I haven’t read all 1838373 pages of this thread. No ones cheering, it was a valid point in my opinion; put yourself in the same shoes and don’t be offended if somebody else does. Especially if your going to start a thread on a very sensitive and controversial topic to women, the center of the very subject.
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^ you misunderstood my post. I was role playing. The lady and I neverndid have a discussion.
I skimmed over ur post. And concur with ur analysis.
^ you misunderstood my post. I was role playing. The lady and I neverndid have a discussion.
I skimmed over ur post. And concur with ur analysis.
Gotcha, thought maybe I missed something that was aimed at you.
Re: Marital Rape......
Oh please, that's absolutely hypocritical . The very subject of this thread is on the abuse of woman. Women who are mothers, daughters, sisters to somebody including you and the very person who the comment was geared at. There was no mud dragging at all. It's a fact, we all have mothers, and if he cant put himself in the same shoes or other women in an abusive position on the same standard as his own mother/sisters then he should not be talking at all. Thats ridiculous. It just noise to take away from the focus of the actual topic. Diwana's talking style is just as offensive since he can't seem to leave his insults out of any of the points he wants to make. The use of "your stinky father on top of your mother" is an actual insult done by somebody above. Your talking about a thread on women and about abuse in a marriage possibly started by somebody who has no idea about either and all of a sudden the line is drawn when posters are told to put themselves in those shoes as these other woman because it could happen to anybody. What would your reaction be if this was any person in your family including your mother. If that's offensive then that makes you/op/ diawana or whoever hypocritical because it is what it is.
Southie, I have no idea about what you and Reha discussed. I only understood that comment as directed towards Diwana, not you. I haven't read all 1838373 pages of this thread. No ones cheering, it was a valid point in my opinion; put yourself in the same shoes and don't be offended if somebody else does. Especially if your going to start a thread on a very sensitive and controversial topic to women, the center of the very subject.
^S and S....Diwana had made it a clear a few times that he does not condone abuse toward women. That I clearly remember. So, he has to have respect for women (mother, sister, etc) if he doesn't condone abuse toward the wife. Yes, I admit that there are some women who are very emotionally needy. Sometimes when we read threads created by distressed DILs....we roll our eyes and think that the woman needs to develop a tougher skin. But the analogy of a woman with 17 kids and one with 2 kids.....was just off. When I discussed it with my mom, she totally understood what he meant and even gave the example of my nani who had oodles of kids and was so resilient......but even mom was like "yeh example theek nahi hai"...as in it's not appropriate sounding. And it wasn't interpreted in a positive way...and the response given was unnecessary....it was unnecessary to assume that he doesn't respect his mom. Diwana's asterisks weren't necessary either. When Reha responded to it, she mentioned that she took it as a gaali. Diwana didn't refute her assumption. She didn't respect his mom, but she did have a negative assumption of his character....in that he doesn't respect his mom. So...a couple of the guppies are saying that asterisks are well-deserved for the criticism of Diwana's character. In other words.......an ill assumption of one's character warrants an "insinuated" gaali. I'll say it again.....there are mistakes on both ends here. Some folks are severely scrutinizing and dissecting the mistakes of one person and not looking at it from both angles.
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It is ridiculous to always expect the husband to woo his wife to get laid. Why must the wives think they deserve to be wooed/charmed into sex? It is childish. As two adults, the attraction should be mutual. I agree that marital rape cases are almost always domestic violence cases. How in the hell would you know that a wife has deprived her husband of sex for two years and the guy eventually said enough is enough. However cruel that may sound, it is not cruel. To call it cruel would mean that women do not have similar sexual desires. You have to realize that it is very hard for a woman to not get a man excited. It is also equally hard to get a woman excited. What must a man do whose wife refuses? Why get married then?
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I think in all the 24 pages of posts, everyone agreed that forcing anyone to have sex is wrong. The 24 pages only came through because no one could get their thoughts well written enough to not offend a single gsbody. And all the drama ensued because everyone would try to be politically correct and stumble and then after being shot back at by even one other poster everything went down the crapper. This is my analysis of this whole whole thread. Its like saying yes I agree with u but I refuse to accept Section 37B sub clause 86 of ur post and now ur going to hear it for the next 10 pages, till 10 other GS members jump in so that 15 other members can find 20,000 other things wrong in those 10 pages.
You know that team project u work on where everyone agrees on everything but then u have one team member pipe up about something, then everyone else agrees, but then there's is constantly any one member going against the grain. That's what produces 24 pages of posts with consensus but no consensus. Everyone agrees but someone still refuses to agree (on how to implement something, or in this thread's case, how to best get a point across without offending someone, and how sissy ur going to be at getting offended).
What I want is to start making bets on how many more pages we can add to this thread till everyone stops taking everything as "OH YEH YOU WANT TO TAKE THAT OUTSIDE!!!"
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If someone gets offended by my post I'm just going to delete it and then sit back and read for another 24 pages. :)