Re: Marital Rape......
Why so much anger towards women diwana? For someone of your stature I expect better. Is this how you view women at work too? Smelly lumps of flesh?
Please remind me to not be your patient.
What anger?
Talking about fact is anger? How did I show any anger is the question.
Women and men both smell.
Anyone who disagrees with that is simply living in la la land.
Re: Marital Rape......
And while you're leaning about the physiology of male vs female sweat glands ... Please take a rotation at a women's clinic or rape center or ER, and you can hear the stories yourself.
I don't get how sometimes docs can be the most inhumane. Women aren't lumps of flesh that disobey God's commands to do it as a darn duty. They are human beings. Unfortunately some guys don't get. Ideally they end up alone but even now can manage to nab vulnerable women into their abuse.
You can mock feminism all you want. It's a movement that has allowed every woman a choice in this matter which even Islam has given them but people like yourself blind them towards. They're taught it is their muslim duty to take a beating. That's BS.
We women don't need to be in these relationships. My sincere Dua is these women get out of them and stand on their own feet and the laws of their country actually protect them!
Men are not planted on this earth to make women happy without thinking for themselves either.
There are sinister women out there who love to make lives of their husbands like living in hell.
Within this last week I have come across two (Non-Desi) men who have been manipulated by their ex-wives enough to make their lives miserable.
Both are disgusted with the laws and cried literally with tears how their ex-wives hired lawyers to make more payments to them and making false accusations.
PCG: Before you make any final judgement, hear me loud and clear:
In this world: BOTH men and women are EQUALLY responsible for the mess before or after marriage.
To make men responsible for so called raping a woman, people need to sit back and recognize that there is no such thing as Marital rape.
**A rape is a rape.
Does not need to be labeled as Marital rape.
Marriage and rape are two mutually exclusive terms.
**
Re: Marital Rape......
There indeed is. It happens and it too is a fact. Quit defending male atrocities.
Re: Marital Rape…
*Stranger rape is usually a one-off, someone you don’t know, with whom you don’t share any experiences or history. When the assault happens, there can be no doubt as to what is happening: that it is Rape (though even in such situations the victim will often wonder what she has done to precipitate the assault and will blame herself). Inmarital rape the circumstances are very different. It is - quite apart from a physical and sexual violation - a betrayal of trust. Here is a person whom you thought you knew intimately, with whom you share a history, a home and quite often children. Here is a person whom you have made love to on a frequent basis often over many years, with whom you have shared your most intimate secrets and fears, and whom you believe to love you, want the best for you, who would never intentionally hurt you. Marital rape is so destructive because it betrays the fundamental basis of the marital relationship, because it questions every understanding you have not only of your partner and the marriage, but of yourself.
*Source: Marital Rape
*Since the abuse takes place in a relationship of trust, the psychological scars are deeper as repeated abuses may take place. Out of unawareness of rights and a shame that may spring from keeping the real face of relationship hidden from outsiders the victims may suffer months and years of criminal behavior without bringing it to light. Hardly ever do cases get reported. There may also be fear of repercussions involved in a continuing relationship.
*
Source: Article: Marital Rape: An Unacknowledged Crime | OpEdNews
There is much more information online for anyone interested. Just Google it. I hope some males will Google this topic and read more about this. Please understand how this is for a female. And stop doing this. For those of you who say you follow the sunna and the Quran, please understand this topic. Show compassion and understanding.
Re: Marital Rape......
^All this "western" mumbo jumbo is useless to pious musalmans of this forum. Woman must submit or be cursed by angels.
Re: Marital Rape......
Allah would never want cruelty to happen to innocent people, male or female. I don't believe the lie that angels would "curse" a female if she is very ill or extremely tired because of taking care of babies, numerous children, the family of her husband, etc. and thus she doesn't want sex which hurts very much.
The Quran says in various places that Allah loves us all and that we shouldn't be cruel towards innocent people and we should show compassion and understanding towards each other. Allah Himself isn't cruel, so I don't understand why certain people think they have the right to mistreat people who never harmed them in the name of "Islam".
Keep repeating the lie that angels curse a female who refuses sex to her husband because she is extremely tired and/or ill or has other valid reasons not to have sex. I don't believe Allah would be that cruel and horrible. If she refuses only to torment her husband while he does nothing wrong, then the angels would curse her, but not if she has valid reasons to refuse.
Let's agree to disagree. I feel terrible already for the wife you will demand to have sex with you even when she is ill . . .
Re: Marital Rape......
Two days ago met with a woman who delivered 17 kids. Youngest being 18 years old and herself being 64 or so.
No anger, no disrespect for her husband and no remorse.
And so called liberated women and copy cat desi women who cry and expect their husbands to treat them as rose petal in a storm....when they deliver the second baby.
Re: Marital Rape…
Re: Marital Rape......
Let's agree to disagree. I feel terrible already for the wife you will demand to have sex with you even when she is ill . . .
I feel terrible for wives of some men on this forum. One person's multiple wives in particular.
Re: Marital Rape......
very obvious from this thread:
1- One sided bashing against men is not a problem but talking about BOTH men and women with their responsibilities and rights and their general attitude towards each other .........is not acceptable for some irrational so called freedom lover women.
2- All throughout I never agreed to any man abusing a woman in any form...physical or psychological.
3- I will say again and as Psyah put it well, marital rape is oxymoron term.
You cannot just state that - you have to define what it is and why you think its an oxymoron :)
Marriage does not take away the right of a woman to say "no...do not force me to have sex with you".
So now you are generalizing against men that ONLY their armpits smell. :D
For your kind information, human body creates sweat regardless it is of a man or a woman. Sweat glands work in both sexes. Trust me on that one. ;)
**Stop creating this nonsense idea that men are the only ones who smell.
Some guys DO smell bad. **
There are plenty of women who stink and wear clothes which they wore a few days or months ago in a different party or occasion without washing them..just because they cannot wash them to begin with, and their clothes still have sweat smell which can be smelled from few feet away despite their perfume. Sorry to say. :(
You did not address the rest of my post.
You can marry as many women as you want diwana if your wife does not put out. But it does not make you exempt from your duty to please her.
The responsibility lies on BOTH. Blaming a woman constantly that she just won't comply with her marital duties because she's lazy is not right.
NO woman is too lazy to be intimate with her attractive counterpart.
Some men seem to think the entire burden of this is carried by the female...as if she doesn't have enough on her plate to begin with. As if intimacy is not a need of hers. As if her wants don't matter.
When will this stop? When will men and women realize their actual roles in a marriage and stop blaming others for their own shortcomings?
Re: Marital Rape......
Two days ago met with a woman who delivered 17 kids. Youngest being 18 years old and herself being 64 or so.
No anger, no disrespect for her husband and no remorse.
And so called liberated women and copy cater desi women who cry and expect their husbands to treat them as rose petal in a storm....when they deliver the second baby.
And then there are males like my ex, my baby always cried at night, it was 1997-1998, I was not allowed to teach her to sleep through the night as many people do when they have a baby who doesn't sleep through the night. My ex didn't want to loose his sleep. So I had to get up 1-2 times every night for my baby. My ex did not allow me to sleep early, he wanted me to sleep late with him so he wouldn't be bored. My ex did not allow me to sleep a little longer in the morning so I could at least catch up with sleep. I had to get up very early for his breakfast. Most days I had around 3-5 hours of sleep in 24 hours.
His mother had guests once and I had to cook for them, it was feeding time for my baby, my ex refused to feed her and said it's the job of females, his mother didn't want to feed the baby she and my ex both wanted me to have in the first place, my baby was crying for milk. I was not allowed to feed her until the food for their guests was ready. He took the older children of his brother to Quick (comparable with McDonald's), these fat older children had already eaten halway shalway with their mother, my baby was the hungry one. My ex said 'she won't die if she doesn't get her milk bottle' and left to Quick to eat with the daughters of his brother. He let his own baby girl cry for milk because his mother said it is the job of females and he shouldn't help me with the baby.
He refused to buy her clothes, he wanted my parents to pay for those. He took the money the goverment gives to parents so they can buy clothing and foods for their baby, it's meant as a help for raising your children, so he took it and lied to me that he received nothing. Then he used it for himself, his brother, his sister and his parents. Once I needed a clothing for my baby, it was in sale, 25 francs. He refused angrily and said he had no money, we went to his parents immediately afterwards, his father said he had to buy meat for guests, my ex said he had enough money and would buy the meat himself. So no spending on his own baby girl, the baby which he and his parents kept insisting I should have, but spending for his parents and family alone, that is not Islam. In real Islam you don't steal the money of your children, in real Islam you take care of both your children and you parents if they need you.
I never asked my ex for expensive clothes, jewelry, etc. not even for our children. Just the basic things we needed. I still have the government documents which proove that he was stealing money from our baby. I can scan them if certain males here think I'm making this up . . . But I guess even when they realise I'm telling the truth and even when these certain males here won't deny that men do these kinds of things too, then they will probably say all this is excellent behaviour and I shouldn't compain and my daughter and my son and I should be happy with the kind of husband and father my ex was . . .
Re: Marital Rape......
It is very amusing to see all sorts of arguments and energies being spent to prove denial from wives is acceptable..including
No reason whatsoever, to having a baby two months ago with emotional touch, and
.....now men being sweaty, smelly and hairy creatures planted on this world to turn off the so called "very delicate and sophisticated senses" among women as their wives.
I mean when are we going to talk about making efforts to make married life be spent in complete harmony despite many differences and despite the sacrifices given by BOTH partners and feel compassion and love for each other that NOT TO DENY even if situation is not ideal??????
I mean seriously:
Are we so materialists and tit for tat people?
I see the valid reason men who force their will over their wives being criticized but where is the responsibility of wives to be polite and humble and not find ways to escalate the problem further?
If their husbands are not in the best form to be attracted and they find their husbands repulsive, then why the heck they are still clinging to the relationship and not preemptively acting to dissolve the artificial relationship so husband do not approach towards them to begin with?
For money?
For children?
For fear of defamation?
To get their husbands sent to jail in western countries especially, so their revenge is finally satisfied?
It bugs me to see women finding reasons to deny men their rights which they themselves agreed to when signed marital accord.
if nothing else, take your husbands to a male groom place or make an appointment for him yourself.
Tell him quite blank but in nice way or gentle way what you like and what you do not.
Some women boast to be gentle gender, then why deny your husband in such a way that it brings anger to him?
Why?
*Make peace and no war.
*
Unless you are already attracted to the neighbor guy or work mate etc...and want your husband get out of your life and blame him for divorce.
Happens all the time. I have examples for that I can share.....
Re: Marital Rape......
Your examples are few and far in between - they are not the majority and definitely not the rule.
The reality is more men complain about wives not wanting to be intimate.
Why would a woman want to be intimate with someone who does not make an effort to attract her?
Instead of avoiding OBVIOUS realities and going in circles, its better to face reality.
The reality is - men share the blame when intimacy diminishes between a couple because it takes TWO to tango. Not one. There'd be no complaint if that was the case but there IS.
And those who are smart enough to realize this will be sooo happy ahead but those who don't will end up literally a hair away from the solution without even knowing it. Sexual fulfillment between a couple is one of Islam's gifts. Its one of the few religions that emphasizes the importance of intimacy between partners and teaches us how to tap into each other's desires. I think people who cannot see that are truly missing out because a motivated woman is also a hot one. Its sad but whatever...not my problem.
Re: Marital Rape......
Diwana, you can't tell every male these things. Some become angry and/or abusive. It works in some relationships, but not in all. And not all males care, certain ones only want their wives to be perfect in every sense no matter how they are themselves.
Personally, I never charged my ex, I could have made the government punish him for the theft of money our child alone, I could have demanded through court what is my right: money to raise our children, I didn't. I still don't have enough money, this is the way I've been living, I don't take money from my ex nor from my parents. I try to find a nice paying job to provide for my children. They're almost adults now. In a few years they will have jobs and enough money for the first time in their lives. And we are still happy together with everything we do have, alhamdulilah.
One day Allah will punish my ex, in this life or in the Here After. He will be questioned about many things, insha Allah.
Re: Marital Rape......
Can a Wife Refuse her Husband's Call to Bed
Question #: 4816
Date Posted: 05-03-2004
What are the rights of woman after marriage? If the husband calls the wife to bed, can she say no? Does the husband need the wife's consent to have Intercourse?
If there is no consent, and the wife doesn’t want to, and he forces himself over her, isn’t that rape?
An Important Clarification
In light of recent attempts by some to sensationalise my views by taking them out of their intended context and accusing me of “legitimising and vindicating rape within marriage,” I would like to categorically express that the answer below does not, in any way, call for rape within marriage. In fact, it clearly delegitimises rape stating: “… the above does not in any way mean that the husband may force himself over her for sexual gratification…” and “he [the husband] must restrain himself from forcing himself over her”. The answer below merely discusses the religious and Islamic obligation of a wife to fulfill the sexual needs of her husband and not use sex as a weapon against him. The ruling also applies to the husband, in that he has a religious obligation to fulfill the sexual needs of his wife and not deprive her of this right. Refusing sex without a genuine reason (or permission) and using it as a weapon against one’s husband or wife constitutes a sin in the eyes of God (i.e. in the next life), but does not legitimize rape or forced sex in this life.
Sayyiduna Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “When a man calls his wife for sexual intimacy and she refuses him, thus he spends the night in anger, the angels curse her until morning.” (Sahih al-Bukhari & Sahih Muslim, See: Riyad al-Salihin, no. 281)
Sayyiduna Talq ibn Ali (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “When a man calls his wife for sexual intimacy, she should come, even if she is (busy) in the cooking area.” (Sunan al-Tirmidhi & Sunan al-Nasa’i)
Sayyiduna Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “By the one in whose hands is my life, there is not a man who calls his wife for sexual intimacy and she refuses him except that Allah becomes angry with her until her husband is pleased with her.” (Sahih Muslim, No. 1436)
The above and other narrations of the beloved of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) clearly signify the importance of the wife obeying her husband in his request for sexual intimacy. It will be a grave sin (in normal circumstances) for the wife to refuse her husband, and even more, if this leads the husband into the unlawful.
Imam al-Nawawi (Allah have mercy on him) states in his commentary on the Hadith of Abu Huraira stated above:
“This Hadith indicates that it is unlawful (haram) for the wife to refuse her husband for sexual intimacy without a valid reason. Menstruation will not be considered a valid reason, for the husband has a right to enjoy her from above the garment (on top of cloths).” (Sharh Sahih Muslim, P. 1084)
However, the above does not in any way mean that the husband may force himself over her for sexual gratification. The Hadith mentions “the husband spends the night in anger or being displeased” which clearly shows that he must restrain himself from forcing himself over her. Had this not been the case, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) would have advised the husband to gain his right in a forceful manner.
Similarly, it should be remembered here that, the wife must obey her husband in his request for sexual intimacy unless she has a valid reason. She must obey his as long as she does not have to forego her own rights. As such, if the wife is ill, fears physical harm or she is emotionally drained, etc; she will not be obliged to comply with her husband’s request for sexual intimacy. Rather, the husband would be required to show her consideration.
Allah Most High says:
“On no soul does Allah place a burden greater than it can bear.” (Surah al-Baqarah, 286)
Many times it is observed that the husband demands from his wife to fulfil his sexual needs no matter what state she is in, and uses the above quoted Hadiths to impose himself over her. If the wife is not in a state to engage in sexual activities and has a genuine and valid reason, and the husband forces her, then he will be sinful. Muslim husbands should realize that their wives are also humans and not some type of machines that can be switched on whenever they desire!
Finally, these matters should be resolved with mutual understanding, regard for one another, love, gentleness and putting one’s spouse before one’s self. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) has reported to have said: “None of you can be a true believer until he loves for his brother/sister what he loves for himself.” The importance of this is even greater in a marital relationship.
And Allah Knows Best
[Mufti] Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester , UK
Re: Marital Rape......
Why hasn't this thread been closed by mods? Sab log chaska laga rahe hai.
Re: Marital Rape…
Waiting for certain people bashing pinks…
Re: Marital Rape......
Bashing? Why? The quotes provided by Pinks are what most has been saying here, such as:
*
“This Hadith indicates that it is unlawful (haram) for the wife to refuse her husband for sexual intimacy** without a valid reason**. Menstruation will not be considered a valid reason, for the husband has a right to enjoy her from above the garment (on top of cloths).” (Sharh Sahih Muslim, P. 1084)
However, the above does not in any way mean that the husband may force himself over her for sexual gratification. The Hadith mentions “the husband spends the night in anger or being displeased” which clearly shows that he must restrain himself from forcing himself over her. Had this not been the case, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) would have advised the husband to gain his right in a forceful manner.
Similarly, it should be remembered here that, the wife must obey her husband in his request for sexual intimacy unless she has a valid reason.** She must obey his as long as she does not have to forego her own rights.** As such, if the wife is ill, fears physical harm or she is emotionally drained, etc; she will not be obliged to comply with her husband’s request for sexual intimacy. Rather, the** husband would be required to show her consideration
Showing consideration means not harming his wife, not hurting her in this case. The wife not having to forego her own rights, means she doesn't have to be tortured by the pain if she doesn't want to. Any male (and his mother who supports him in this) who lies the angels curse his wife even if she has valid reasons to refuse since she doesn't have to forego her own rights and the husband has to show her consideration and uses this lie to force himself on his wife, as many - not all, but yes, unfortunately many - males do, is sinning.
My fellow females, no angel will curse you when you refuse to be in severe pain, you can say no even to your husband with valid reasons. We could even consider another step. Since cruelty is not allowed in Islam, and being cruel in the name of Islam is quite ridicilous since Islam clearly forbids it and even Allah Himself is not cruel, then why would any kind of and sunna and Quran following husband force his wife even when she doesn't want to at that moment, knowing it hurts her most of the time if he still does that?
And yes, probably all has been said already on this topic in this thread. Perhaps it should be closed. Who agrees, agrees. Who disagrees, disagrees. That's life.
Re: Marital Rape......
Two days ago met with a woman who delivered 17 kids. Youngest being 18 years old and herself being 64 or so.
No anger, no disrespect for her husband and no remorse.
And so called liberated women and copy cat desi women who cry and expect their husbands to treat them as rose petal in a storm....when they deliver the second baby.
You have no respect for your own mother? She is a female, gave birth to you and deserves to be respected.
Re: Marital Rape......
Two days ago met with a woman who delivered 17 kids. Youngest being 18 years old and herself being 64 or so.
No anger, no disrespect for her husband and no remorse.
And so called liberated women and copy cat desi women who cry and expect their husbands to treat them as rose petal in a storm....when they deliver the second baby.
yesterday I met with this young beautiful couple that came to our bank, they had a beautiful baby daughter, the husband was tall and handsome and was kind, gentle and loving towards the child and the mom, The husband didn't treat his wife and their daughter like garbage, no disrespect and no anger towards the wife and daughter.