Marital Rape......

[diwana]

Re: Marital Rape......

**

Blaming the victim much?? Whether you agree with the definition of marital rape or believe that there can be any sort of sexual abuse in a marriage or not, what the man did in the case Nina described, is still domestic abuse. HIm forcing himself onto his wife who has barely healed, is NOT HER fault. It is entirely HIS fault. There is no room for "regardless of whose fault it was" because it was CLEARLY his fault. If a man feels disgusted, rejected and angry at his wife who is in pain and cannot have sex then the problem is again with the mental state of that man not with the woman.

You say that a marriage is about a man and woman fulfilling each other's needs. Well those needs aren't just sexual. If the man needed sex in Nina's example, then the woman needed love and care. You need to grow up and get your head out of whatever the hell kind of twisted land it currently resides in.

I edited my post above after reading your post to a certain extent.

Regardless:

Read all my posts: I cannot find the man solely responsible for the drama which ensues over denial.

BOTH are responsible.

If this fact your mind cannot absorb, then so be it. :)

[_Passionate]

Re: Marital Rape......

I edited my post above after reading your post to a certain extent.

Regardless:

Read all my posts: I cannot find the man solely responsible for the drama which ensues over denial.

BOTH are responsible.

If this fact your mind cannot absorb, then so be it. :)

What your mind cannot absorb Diwana, is that this thread is not about "drama that ensues over denial". This thread is about a very real issue. An issue of abuse. This thread isn't about twisted women who deny their husband sex for no reason or use it as a weapon. You obviously seem to believe that any woman who claims her husband has abused her cannot be telling the whole truth because men cannot possibly abuse their women for no reason. No Diwana, wake up and smell the pile of **** some people go through every day of their life. No matter what some women do for their good for nothing husbands, they still get beaten and raped. Your mind cannot absorb the fact that there is such a thing as abuse and that there are men out there of all races who abuse their wives mentally, physically and sexually.

[Sahdia77]

Re: Marital Rape......

So true, unfortunately. It's everywhere in the world. And many people are still in denial. That makes solving the issue more difficult. :(

[Reha]

Re: Marital Rape......

Wait, wha?

Let me get some clarification.............................a woman who has a two month old baby............who's stitches have not healed yet........is to blame for a man not being satisfied?

Do we know the difference between animals and humans? When you watch discovery channel, you see animals procreating in the way women are being described in this thread.

As a woman...if my husband has not fully healed from an accident and I feel frisky...does that mean he is not fulfilling his end of the marriage? :( How do I execute my religious rights in such a case? :( What if there's a few casts and bandages and :( stitches?

Sex is supposed to be pleasurable for BOTH. BOTH. BOTH.

What A LOT of men don't understand about intimacy and would benefit from paying attention to: pleasing your partner is in a MAN'S best interest. If she's happy, she will MAKE YOU happy. If you turn her off by turning sex into a responsibility, chore or even worse...trauma...she will treat you like those things eventually. You will never be her lover...you will turn into the man that happens every so often because its her religious duty.

[system]

Re: Marital Rape......

OK.

The question asked by S_S was personal...as she (I assume this person is either a female or an extremist feminist or acting like one even if a male..not sure)

I had the choice to ignore or answer in light way.

I decided to answer in light way as it did make me laugh.

---

rainydays or whomever you represent as a multi,...

*READ carefully once for all: *

1- It is not about winning any argument.

I agree with people a lot of time and only when they make sense or at least try to make sense. Period.

2- Stupid and illogical arguments, positions and laws regardless of how many people in the world agree to, will stay stupid and illogical. There is nothing I can do about it.

3- People is one part of the world do not agree to the laws in another part of the world.

4- People in same country do not agree to what their other countrymen living in another part of the SAME country agree upon.

5- from the beginning I talked about BOTH genders and I have mentioned this fact in my earlier post.

6- Go and read the thread before accusing me for being rigid.

7- The femanazis or so called fake liberators of of women are the ones who only spoke about women and wives.

If you read my posts above, I never condoned any aggression towards any woman including wife.

. Neither do I.

All throughout, I said there is no room to deny spouse his or her sexual need.

What is wrong with that?

NO.

When you gave example of this "Arab" man who acted irrationally and tried to force himself over his wife, that is plain and simple wrong.

(I am agreeing with your story here, just to agree with, otherwise, I am aware of Muslims, Pakistanis and Arabs made up stories and bias against them )

But if you read my posts above, you should have noticed what I said.

I said the marriage must have been in trouble even BEFORE this kind of event happens.

What makes a wife deny her husband sexual advances...despite she had baby of two months and stitches etc etc, as you described is not necessarily be true.

When marriage is on healthy term, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN try their best to please each other regardless what condition they are in.

---

In your scenario: Both were idiots. Regardless of who was more wrong or less. And, the husband was a jerk.

To be fair, you should make her responsible for creating the issue so big that a jerk ended up showing his jerkiness.

If denial has to be made then it has to be made in polite manner...and not making other partner feel disgusted, rejected or angry at least mentlly.

---

Moral: Do not get blinded and be one sided.

And the bla blah blah. If you aren't frustrated much then don't go around calling people multis etc. I don't need to hide behind multis to express my views. May be with you it works.

Each and every word in your posts is gold and reaffirms ones views about you. Your posts even if ever somewhere carry some sanity get so clouded by your constant useless arguing that they merely get reduced to attempts at winning the arguments. And thats it. And true too. Not a very high goal to aim at or is it?

But khair the thing is why should you be taken so serious in the first place? Do quote this post and the rest and go on and on, whilst others chose to walk out of this vicious cycle.

[Reha]

Re: Marital Rape......

Hmmm...okay let me say what some girls might think but not say:

Have any of you thought WHYYYY women avoid sex with their husbands?

Sure, she might be tired, cranky, overworked, etc.

**
BUT...from a woman's perspective, your wife should WANT to have sex with you and if she doesn't...there's a problem that hubby dear isn't realizing and needs to address.**

In a normal relationship where your wife is attracted to you, she will actually desire you. You won't have to wait for weeks and weeks for her mood to get better and she decides to reward you with a little nookie.

If she avoids you all the time........its a sign for the dudes........do something!

Get a new haircut...good grooming is hot
Go to the gym with her or FORCE HER to go...gym does wonders for intimacy in a relationship
Buy better cologne...women love sexy cologne
Switch up your wardrobe a bit...a guy that tries to look nice is attractive

Become desirable...its not just a woman's job in Islam to look nice guys...let's remember this!

OH and by "nice" I don't mean your definitions of nice...find out what SHE likes.

[Sahdia77]

Re: Marital Rape......

That's exactly how marriage felt for me, Reha, it was like being in a prison. Nothing allowed, not even the normal things and not even having basic human rights which even the Quran allows, being mistreated in various ways. I always read online and always whenever a mullah preaches, it's the same thing: females have to make themselves beautiful for their husbands, females have to do this, females must do that. Rarely something about what the husband should do to make his wife happy.

I hope that discussions like these in this thread perhaps still open the eyes and minds of some of the males who read this so they will treat their wives better and end the suffering of females.

[S_and_S]

Re: Marital Rape......

OK.

The question asked by S_S was personal...as she (I assume this person is either a female or an extremist feminist or acting like one even if a male..not sure)

I had the choice to ignore or answer in light way.

I decided to answer in light way as it did make me laugh..

The part that is bold is an unfinished thought lol. "As she"... ? As she what? - Which also shows you clearly know I am a girl. :)

Its funny because you considered "a made up scenario" to be such a personal question when in reality you are not even married. So how does it become a personal question for you when it doesn't even apply? But humor can be used for a lot of things and in this case it was avoidance for a very obvious fact. I also love your use of 'extreme feminist' every time you find yourself stumped to defend your very illogical stances.

[S_and_S]

Re: Marital Rape......

That's exactly how marriage felt for me, Reha, it was like being in a prison. Nothing allowed, not even the normal things and not even having basic human rights which even the Quran allows, being mistreated in various ways. I always read online and always whenever a mullah preaches, it's the same thing: females have to make themselves beautiful for their husbands, females have to do this, females must do that. Rarely something about what the husband should do to make his wife happy.

I hope that discussions like these in this thread perhaps still open the eyes and minds of some of the males who read this so they will treat their wives better and end the suffering of females.

Sorry to read about your experience Sahdia.

[Reha]

Re: Marital Rape......

One more thing I cannot understand about men who think about using their religious rights on a woman...

When a woman is rejected sexually, she feels pretty about herself. The last thing she does is force herself on someone who doesn't find her desirable.

Why do men do that? How does that make any sense?

[diwana]

Re: Marital Rape......

And the bla blah blah. If you aren't frustrated much then don't go around calling people multis etc. I don't need to hide behind multis to express my views. May be with you it works.

Each and every word in your posts is gold and reaffirms ones views about you. Your posts even if ever somewhere carry some sanity get so clouded by your constant useless arguing that they merely get reduced to attempts at winning the arguments. And thats it. And true too. Not a very high goal to aim at or is it?

But khair the thing is why should you be taken so serious in the first place? Do quote this post and the rest and go on and on, whilst others chose to walk out of this vicious cycle.

Lets just say I quited you for the sake of quoting, otherwise, I cannot see any substance to it. Sorry.

Hmmm...okay let me say what some girls might think but not say:

Have any of you thought WHYYYY women avoid sex with their husbands?

Sure, she might be tired, cranky, overworked, etc. ** BUT...from a woman's perspective, your wife should WANT to have sex with you and if she doesn't...there's a problem that hubby dear isn't realizing and needs to address.**

In a normal relationship where your wife is attracted to you, she will actually desire you. You won't have to wait for weeks and weeks for her mood to get better and she decides to reward you with a little nookie.

If she avoids you all the time........its a sign for the dudes........do something!

Get a new haircut...good grooming is hot Go to the gym with her or FORCE HER to go...gym does wonders for intimacy in a relationship Buy better cologne...women love sexy cologne Switch up your wardrobe a bit...a guy that tries to look nice is attractive

Become desirable...its not just a woman's job in Islam to look nice guys...let's remember this!

OH and by "nice" I don't mean your definitions of nice...find out what SHE likes.

Absolutely agree to when you said a woman has to agree to have sex with the husband.

NOW:

Would you then agree that in case the husband does not find the woman as his wife attractive enough for ANY reason whatsoever and going out and spending time with other woman should be acceptable by those wives?

I know a woman (not from desi land) who is more than overweight ( the new term for them is 'phat').... and even her co-workers have mentioned her smelling from down there.......... when she comes close to these women and her husband has not made any move towards her in a while.

She still expects him to be pro-active and talks ill of him for not doing so.

My point is that it goes both ways:
**
Try not to show, it is the men who are at fault if sexual attraction is failing between husbands and wives.
**

That's exactly how marriage felt for me, Reha, it was like being in a prison. Nothing allowed, not even the normal things and not even having basic human rights which even the Quran allows, being mistreated in various ways. I always read online and always whenever a mullah preaches, it's the same thing: **females have to make themselves beautiful for their husbands, females have to do this, females must do that. **Rarely something about what the husband should do to make his wife happy.

I hope that discussions like these in this thread perhaps still open the eyes and minds of some of the males who read this so they will treat their wives better and end the suffering of females.

Forget about preparing for their husbands,

I say please at least take a bathe or shower.....

Water is cheap women!!! **

Please take shower married or not. (I know a lot of desi and non-desi women who are scared of water even if they have a bathroom in their houses)
**
Why can't women take bathe or shower everyday and sometimes twice a day is my question..............

Men know, a lot of women wear the same clothes/dress again without being washed or dry cleaned since they cannot be..

...........and still have sweat smell from 6 months ago. J/K :D

The part that is bold is an unfinished thought lol. "As she"... ? As she what? - Which also shows you clearly know I am a girl. :)

Its funny because you considered "a made up scenario" to be such a personal question when in reality you are not even married. So how does it become a personal question for you when it doesn't even apply? But humor can be used for a lot of things and in this case it was avoidance for a very obvious fact. I also love your use of 'extreme feminist' every time you find yourself stumped to defend your very illogical stances.

As she was continued in brackets. :)

One more thing I cannot understand about men who think about using their religious rights on a woman...

When a woman is rejected sexually, she feels pretty about herself. The last thing she does is force herself on someone who doesn't find her desirable.

Why do men do that? How does that make any sense?

When a woman is rejected sexually, she does not really feels pretty about herself.

And if she does that would be very unusual and weird of her to still feel pretty about her.

As to your other sentence:

Women in general cannot force themselves on men for not being strong enough physically.

If they were physically equal then,............. they might have been forcing themselves over men too...........

.............and the feminists would have not much to argue about. ;)

[Reha]

Re: Marital Rape......

Absolutely agree to when you said a woman has to agree to have sex with the husband.

NOW:

Would you then agree that in case the husband does not find the woman as his wife attractive enough for ANY reason whatsoever and going out and spending time with other woman should be acceptable by those wives?

I know a woman (not from desi land) who is more than overweight ( the new term for them is 'phat').... and even her co-workers have mentioned her smelling from down there.......... when she comes close to these women and her husband has not made any move towards her in a while.

She still expects him to be pro-active and talks ill of him for not doing so.

My point is that it goes both ways: ** Try not to show, it is the men who are at fault if sexual attraction is failing between husbands and wives. ** **Women need more that just visual to become intimate. Most of the more religious men I have met are not very attractive and its usually those who use Islam to find other women. The bearded ones - hands down unattractive to me. It might work for others.

The burden of appearing nice is always on the female. If a marriage lacks intimacy, look at the wife. Its men who complain about women using sex against them.

This thread is about women using sex against a man which leads to him raping her. Let's stay focused:

A woman - much like a man - has needs.

If a woman is rejecting intimacy with her husband...there's a reason for it. That reason CAN be fatigue, exhaustion, etc. But not always. If this is happening all the time, she just isn't interested. **

Forget about preparing for their husbands,

I say please at least take a bathe or shower.....

Water is cheap women!!! **

Please take shower married or not. (I know a lot of desi and non-desi women who are scared of water even if they have a bathroom in their houses)

---

That sounds more like certain people...I don't know anyone who is afraid of water. Man or woman. ** ...........and still have sweat smell from 6 months ago. J/K ** The sweat smell is a man thing...its guys who's armpits stink like a sewer...just ask the married girls since they do husband's laundry. **

As she was continued in brackets. :)

When a woman is rejected sexually, she does not really feels pretty about herself.

And if she does that would be very unusual and weird of her to still feel pretty about her.

As to your other sentence:

Women in general cannot force themselves on men for not being strong enough physically.

If they were physically equal then,............. they might have been forcing themselves over men too...........

.............and the feminists would have not much to argue about. ;)

That was a typo...she feels really bad about herself.

Women cannot force themselves on a man - but they can definitely initiate things if they wanted their husband enough.

My point is...if you're married and your wife does not initiate intimacy or enjoy it with you or makes you wait for weeks...do something about it. The correct thing to do: be rational, think maturely, see that something is lacking, remedy it and try again.

*Men and women ARE required to satisfy each other no matter how many wives a man has. *

No diwana, the answer is not always going to be in another woman's arms because someday men and women will get old and the number of arms willing to accept them will also dwindle.

That is also another thing which makes a woman bold enough to say no...who will want this guy? He doesn't look good, take care of himself, doesn't care about a woman's needs, etc. Who will keep him? Janay do. Kahan jaye ga?

Aur sach mein...kahin nahin jata.

Please stop playing the blame game here. The thread is about marital rape and all I am doing is giving a woman's perspective because no one ever talks about how important intimacy is for Muslim women in a marriage.

[Sahdia77]

Re: Marital Rape…

[quote=““diwana””]

Yes, females have to remain clean, in Islam keeping yourself clean is even half your religion. Showering, remaining clean is logical . . . Same goes for males.

I never heard a mullah say that a husband should take care of himself too though and remain clean and handsome for his wife. My ex used to have a horrible smell from his mouth for example and then he wondered why I hated kissing. If I would want to kiss, I’d make sure I wouldn’t have a horrible smell and otherwise I would never demand kisses. Yet, he did. And he’s not the onle male who behaved like that. I’ve heard these kinds of experiences from other females as well. Apparently there are numerous males who have a horrible smell and don’t care about that. That is just one example from many males who don’t care how horrible they look or smell yet demand their wives should still perfect.

Another example, they want their wives to be as thin as they were before childbirth, I became chubby after giving birth and remained so for a while. I even received remarks on that. Yet, he was the one who wanted children. His own sister and mother were very fat in those years. Looking back at pictures sometimes, I realise I was the thinnest from all of us. Again, many other females have told me the same kinds of experiences. One Dutch friend even had a very fat husband who still made nasty remarks to her when she became fat too. I was never fat during my marriage, looking back at pictures, I actually looked great even when chubby and I lost that weight quickly back then. People often even thought I was much younger than I really was. I took care of myself. Even that was used against me.

The name my inlaws gave me was negative because I took care of my weight, I took care of what I ate, I took care of my hair, I washed often, I took care of everything, to them it was ‘oh, look how she takes care of her body, her health, why is she doing that? is looks all for her?’ and my ex hated it too. Before marriage I used to run and excersice, which is why I was in excellent shape and healthy. Ater marriage, nothing was allowed.

So, taking care of your body is used against you, less taking care of your body is used against you too, not taking care of your body is used against you too.

The husband of another friend of mine is very sweet. She is fat, she always was, even when he married her. She once told me he’s always telling her he loves her as she is. Yet she still tries to loose weight. There are males and females who do love chubby or fat people.

And for those who say females never attack, yes they do. I’ve read news articles of how some females are just as nasty as males. In the Netherlands they even opened a safe house for males who are being mistreated by females. It’s not exactly the same as what males do to females, but it’s still abuse. Some males were beaten too.

And rape even is done by females, because I read in the news how Belgian nuns were being questioned now about abusing boys! So yes, some females are just as horrible as certain males. It does happen both ways. I even had an internet friend who told me his ex-wive abused and used him. Now he has a better life, alhamdulilah.

And still, most of the horrible things are still done by males. It’s the society which allows them many things and then they become worse. I’ve seen that, literally. Males do something, everyone finds excuses, including their mothers and sisters, then they become more and more worse because hey, they have the power and are allowed everything. That is their way of thinking.

I will never completely understand them for that. I have been in the position of being able to be racist, I refused, I have been in the position of doing nasty things, I didn’t. I have had horrible life experiences, yet I wasn’t horrible to others.

People always make excuses when people abuse others, they say things like ‘oh, he or she was raised that way’ or ‘oh, he or she was abused himself or herself’, but I don’t buy that. I have had horrible experiences yet I didn’t harm other innocent people. Even if someone is telling certain males their nasty behaviour is allright, they should still use their own head and think about their actions, think about how cruel they can be and stop doing all that.

[Sahdia77]

Re: Marital Rape…

Belgian nun sexually abused a boy
New Belgium nun child sex abuse case | News24

We cannot say females never do something horrible and we can never only put the blame on males, even if they do these kinds of horrible things far more often and they are often more horrible and cruel in their actions, females can be cruel and horrible too in similar ways even.

I couldn’t find this one in English, it’s about safe houses for males in the Netherlands in Dutch, you can use google translator for a rough translation and the Dutch reading Guppies will understand:

Blijf-van-mijn-lijf voor mannen, overbodig of hard nodig? | HP/De Tijd

NOVA - detail - Uitzendingen

DPG Media Privacy Gate

This is about a gay male who is in a safe house for males because his family wants to kill him for being gay:
Blijf-van-mijn-lijf voor mannen, overbodig of hard nodig? | HP/De Tijd

Depressing that males and females become victims of abuse, but there is also hope for a better future.

Link for males to receive help if they are in an abusive relationship

Domestic Violence Against Men: Help and Resources - HelpGuide.org

[Scherbatsky]

Re: Marital Rape......

This thread is turning into mental rape.

[Shak]

Re: Marital Rape…

@Scherbatsky

This thread is turning into mental rape.

---

Restored attachments:

[diwana]

Re: Marital Rape......

very obvious from this thread:

1- One sided bashing against men is not a problem but talking about BOTH men and women with their responsibilities and rights and their general attitude towards each other .........is not acceptable for some irrational so called freedom lover women.

2- All throughout I never agreed to any man abusing a woman in any form...physical or psychological.

3- I will say again and as Psyah put it well, marital rape is oxymoron term.

Just like

Gay-Marriage

Pretty-Ugly

Religious-murder

Manly woman

Mercy Killing

Natural Makeup

etc.

Why not make following terms:

God fearing atheist

Expensive shopper at Walmart

Conservative liberal

Liberally conservative

Intelligent queer

[diwana]

Re: Marital Rape......

**Women need more that just visual to become intimate. Most of the more religious men I have met are not very attractive and its usually those who use Islam to find other women. The bearded ones - hands down unattractive to me. It might work for others.

The burden of appearing nice is always on the female. If a marriage lacks intimacy, look at the wife. Its men who complain about women using sex against them.

This thread is about women using sex against a man which leads to him raping her. Let's stay focused:

A woman - much like a man - has needs.

If a woman is rejecting intimacy with her husband...there's a reason for it. That reason CAN be fatigue, exhaustion, etc. But not always. If this is happening all the time, she just isn't interested.

** *That sounds more like certain people...I don't know anyone who is afraid of water. Man or woman. *

*The sweat smell is a man thing...its guys who's armpits stink like a sewer...just ask the married girls since they do husband's laundry. *

That was a typo...she feels really bad about herself.

Women cannot force themselves on a man - but they can definitely initiate things if they wanted their husband enough.

My point is...if you're married and your wife does not initiate intimacy or enjoy it with you or makes you wait for weeks...do something about it. The correct thing to do: be rational, think maturely, see that something is lacking, remedy it and try again.

*Men and women ARE required to satisfy each other no matter how many wives a man has. *

No diwana, the answer is not always going to be in another woman's arms because someday men and women will get old and the number of arms willing to accept them will also dwindle.

**That is also another thing which makes a woman bold enough to say no...who will want this guy? He doesn't look good, take care of himself, doesn't care about a woman's needs, etc. Who will keep him? Janay do. Kahan jaye ga?

Aur sach mein...kahin nahin jata.

Please stop playing the blame game here. The thread is about marital rape and all I am doing is giving a woman's perspective because no one ever talks about how important intimacy is for Muslim women in a marriage**.

So now you are generalizing against men that ONLY their armpits smell. :D

For your kind information, human body creates sweat regardless it is of a man or a woman. Sweat glands work in both sexes. Trust me on that one. ;)

Stop creating this nonsense idea that men are the only ones who smell.

There are plenty of women who stink and wear clothes which they wore a few days or months ago in a different party or occasion without washing them..just because they cannot wash them to begin with, and their clothes still have sweat smell which can be smelled from few feet away despite their perfume. Sorry to say. :(

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Marital Rape......

Why so much anger towards women diwana? For someone of your stature I expect better. Is this how you view women at work too? Smelly lumps of flesh?

Please remind me to not be your patient.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Marital Rape......

And while you're leaning about the physiology of male vs female sweat glands ... Please take a rotation at a women's clinic or rape center or ER, and you can hear the stories yourself.

I don't get how sometimes docs can be the most inhumane. Women aren't lumps of flesh that disobey God's commands to do it as a darn duty. They are human beings. Unfortunately some guys don't get. Ideally they end up alone but even now can manage to nab vulnerable women into their abuse.

You can mock feminism all you want. It's a movement that has allowed every woman a choice in this matter which even Islam has given them but people like yourself blind them towards. They're taught it is their muslim duty to take a beating. That's BS.

We women don't need to be in these relationships. My sincere Dua is these women get out of them and stand on their own feet and the laws of their country actually protect them!