Re: Marital Rape…
S_S you do crack me up big time.
You make up scenario and ask question. 
It is like a lawyer asks a man:
“When did you stop beating your wife?” 
Re: Marital Rape......
What is so cracking up about it? yes, it is one's personal life, you can say better avoid asking such questions. ↲But. Your stance is too unrealistic, rigid and is about seeing things in black n white. ↲If you are doing it using Islam's name, then don't. You need to gain a lot more knowledge and compassion to speak fairly on this. Otherwise you are doing more harm. And yes this is not said to show solidarity with any of the fake feminists here or there.↲And diwana life is not about always winning arguments even if its a delusion with someone.↲
Re: Marital Rape......
Shawn about time to see your shrink. Or he kicked you off too. If you need aid you can ask gs diaspora too.
Re: Marital Rape......
No we will not.
We will not see eye to eye on this one until you agree in your own example ready to condemn the father who is not fulfilling the right.
You cannot fast forward and make people believe father is right in your scenario. First condemn the father please.
Did you not see how quickly some people skip this fact that denying to fulfill the right is wrong? :)
Those misguided women cannot have the cake and eat it too...who think they can deny their husbands anytime and for whatsoever pathetic reason they feel like.
They don't need to go all around the world blaming husbands looking for satisfaction outside marriage.
Pathetic reasons? There was a case here in Quebec, where a woman had given birth 2 months prior and still did not feel ready for sex. Her stiches had just healed, she was tired and simly did not want it. Her husband got really upset, tried to force himself on her and when she struggled too much, he basically told her to leave his house ( they r Arab btw and the girl is a friend of my cousin).
So in your opinion, this was pathetic of her?? Not him??
Re: Marital Rape......
.
Of course it’s made up. It’s made up because the entire thread is about intimacy between a husband and wife which you have absolutely no idea about considering your not married and probably have never been in any close proximity with a woman in an intimate scenario. Of course it’s made up just like everything you have said because you have absolutely no real idea about marriage and what it even is. If you had, you wouldn’t be cracking but enlightening us with a real perspective of real life experience of being a husband and partner to somebody.
Keep dancing in circles though, it’s quite entertaining for everyone.
Re: Marital Rape......
No we will not.
We will not see eye to eye on this one until you agree in your own example ready to condemn the father who is not fulfilling the right.
You cannot fast forward and make people believe father is right in your scenario. First condemn the father please.
Did you not see how quickly some people skip this fact that denying to fulfill the right is wrong? :)
Those misguided women cannot have the cake and eat it too...who think they can deny their husbands anytime and for whatsoever pathetic reason they feel like.
They don't need to go all around the world blaming husbands looking for satisfaction outside marriage.
WHOA!!!. Just because I gave the example of a father failing to provide for his child, you think that I approve of the father's behavior? Seriously, Diwana? Such behavior on a father's part is unjust and I do condemn it. But still Islam does not entitle the child to become physically aggressive with the father.
Similarly, a husband should not use force to have sex with his wife...such behavior is like that of an animal. Don't limit the definition of animal to failure of foreplay/affection because ine is so consumed by lust/passion, whatever. Expand your mind to be on the safe side. A muslim tries to be on the safe side....and thinks about all possible behaviors (including anger, violence, etc) that reduce his dignity and that of another person's. Islam has prohibited anger in general....Aqalmand k liye yehi hidayat kaafi hai....that the deen which admonishes against anger in general can NEVER justify a husband getting sex by by force/aggression.
Re: Marital Rape......
^^Married people are childless for only a while, once a child comes along shouldn't life revolve around raising the child, at this time this act becomes even more heinous as the victim now is the mother of your child, when our children were younger we did not have time to scratch our heads let alone time for hanky panky. What kind of a person will do something like that. There are hormonal changes after birth, Post Partum depression and stuff, loving family supports each other, people go to counselling together
Re: Marital Rape......
WHOA!!!. Just because I gave the example of a father failing to provide for his child, you think that I approve of the father's behavior? Seriously, Diwana? Such behavior on a father's part is unjust and I do condemn it. But still Islam does not entitle the child to become physically aggressive with the father.
Similarly, a husband should not use force to have sex with his wife...such behavior is like that of an animal. Don't limit the definition of animal to failure of foreplay/affection because ine is so consumed by lust/passion, whatever. Expand your mind to be on the safe side. A muslim tries to be on the safe side....and thinks about all possible behaviors (including anger, violence, etc) that reduce his dignity and that of another person's. Islam has prohibited anger in general....Aqalmand k liye yehi hidayat kaafi hai....that the deen which admonishes against anger in general can NEVER justify a husband getting sex by by force/aggression.
Animals will be a vast improvement over this mentality, Males engage in courtship rituals and do amazing displays for the females and females select the males, in animal world females are the selectors, they are not forced to marry grey skin repulsive suitors.
Re: Marital Rape......
It is for this reason that this Hadith is a reminder to the wives to respect the contract they have signed ... Marital Rape is an oxymoron ... Because Marriage means Sex is now permitted and rape means it is not permitted ... The man or woman can easily prepare each other to become turned on to entertain each other's needs ... With may be a very few exceptions.
If a man beats his wife with or without sex or uses sex as a form of mental abuse then he is not doing zina ... He is doing zulm ... Because zina means where "sex is not allowed" ... It is merely a technical point that drives the appropriating punishment.
psyah bhai,
I think this is what makes any woman uncomfortable and want to disagree. Sex that has not been permitted by one of the parties is rape. Marriage does not mean a man can use his wife against her will. There's no mention of sex in a marital contract. Rape CAN happen within a marriage. Consent does not meant written permission only - it also means verbal and mental consent.
If he gets upset for whatever reason and decides to abuse his wife by forcing himself on her - it is rape because she is not a consenting party in that act. If a woman is not in her senses, its also rape.
Zina is sex with someone you're not married to. Completely different.
Re: Marital Rape......
.
Re: Marital Rape......
Peace All
I have only just seen this ... And I have not had the benefit of reading the whole thread ... From what PushtunWarrior posted ... The counters accusing the men of using the Hadith as justification for zulm on their wives is wrong.
First of all ... The Hadith proves that men are not allowed to beat up their wives ... For if they were allowed to beat their wives to submission then ..."a man going to sleep angry" is a mute point ... Only the men who are helpless will go to sleep angry ... LOL ... So it can be seen that this Hadith is given to a culture of men who utterly respect their wives ... So much so that if their wives say "no" then they become helpless.
It is for this reason that this Hadith is a reminder to the wives to respect the contract they have signed ... Marital Rape is an oxymoron ... Because Marriage means Sex is now permitted and rape means it is not permitted ... The man or woman can easily prepare each other to become turned on to entertain each other's needs ... With may be a very few exceptions.
If a man beats his wife with or without sex or uses sex as a form of mental abuse then he is not doing zina ... He is doing zulm ... Because zina means where "sex is not allowed" ... It is merely a technical point that drives the appropriating punishment.
So again I would like to stress those Hadith prove that men would go to sleep frustrated when their wives would say no to them (they would not beat them up) and hence a gentle reminder is given to prevent this and maintain the good relations between the couple.
the second point is that in the same set of Hadith the problem of the wife refusing is only relevant if the husband remains angry ... If she says no and he can live with it without getting angry then they are in the clear ... Just read the Hadith properly and all will become clear for all here too.
:)
If you go to court on charges of domestic violence in front of a strict female judge and your defence is that your honor I should be awarded a medal as I went to bed angry, that proves I am a good man, they will lock you up and throw away the key, mostly in psychiatric ward. If you so much as raise your hand and not even strike your wife you will be locked up here, remember the new order of the world, human rights trump religious rights.
Re: Marital Rape......
Sayyiduna Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “When a man calls his wife for sexual intimacy and she refuses him, thus he spends the night in anger, the angels curse her until morning.” (Sahih al-Bukhari & Sahih Muslim, See: Riyad al-Salihin, no. 281)
That's the hadith certain males misuse. My ex-mother in law kept repeating that one. Well, Islam also says that a husband should treat his wife with respect and honesty and make her happy too, just as she has to do for him. Which means amongst other things that she is not his sex slave. I think what they meant with this hadith was that certain nasty females use sex to harrass their husbands for one reason or another and that is not allowed and rightly so. Both the husband and the wife should treat each other with respect and I haven't seen many couples sincerely do that.
Shawns @ then that is the issue with girls family first, who forced her to marry. In islam, u can't force man / women to marry without their will. If girl agrees with her parents n married the man then their is no reason to love her husband.
May ALLAH grant us peace.
True, but even then a person doesn't always want to have sex. Even a loving wife can be ill or very very tired (especially after giving birth and having smaller children or having to look after his huge family all day long which also requires a lot of work and tires the wife since she is not a robot . . . ) or she just wants to spend time together for once not having to have sex.
Re: Marital Rape......
That's the hadith certain males misuse. My ex-mother in law kept repeating that one. Well, Islam also says that a husband should treat his wife with respect and honesty and make her happy too, just as she has to do for him. Which means amongst other things that she is not his sex slave. I think what they meant with this hadith was that certain nasty females use sex to harrass their husbands for one reason or another and that is not allowed and rightly so. Both the husband and the wife should treat each other with respect and I haven't seen many couples sincerely do that.
True, but even then a person doesn't always want to have sex. Even a loving wife can be ill or very very tired (especially after giving birth and having smaller children or having to look after his huge family all day long which also requires a lot of work and tires the wife since she is not a robot . . . ) or she just wants to spend time together for once not having to have sex.
I am not sure if this mentality is willing to treat women as human beings frankly, they are treating women worse than animals, here if you kick a dog you go to Jail, there are shelters for dogs where they get safety and caring. What happens to a man who abuses his wife in Pakistan..NOTHING
Re: Marital Rape......
What is so cracking up about it? yes, it is one's personal life, you can say better avoid asking such questions. ↲But. Your stance is too unrealistic, rigid and is about seeing things in black n white. ↲If you are doing it using Islam's name, then don't. You need to gain a lot more knowledge and compassion to speak fairly on this. Otherwise you are doing more harm. And yes this is not said to show solidarity with any of the fake feminists here or there.↲And diwana life is not about always winning arguments even if its a delusion with someone.↲
OK.
The question asked by S_S was personal...as she (I assume this person is either a female or an extremist feminist or acting like one even if a male..not sure)
I had the choice to ignore or answer in light way.
I decided to answer in light way as it did make me laugh.
rainydays or whomever you represent as a multi,...
*READ carefully once for all:
*
1- It is not about winning any argument.
I agree with people a lot of time and only when they make sense or at least try to make sense. Period.
2- Stupid and illogical arguments, positions and laws regardless of how many people in the world agree to, will stay stupid and illogical. There is nothing I can do about it.
3- People is one part of the world do not agree to the laws in another part of the world.
4- People in same country do not agree to what their other countrymen living in another part of the SAME country agree upon.
5- from the beginning I talked about BOTH genders and I have mentioned this fact in my earlier post.
6- Go and read the thread before accusing me for being rigid.
7- The femanazis or so called fake liberators of of women are the ones who only spoke about women and wives.
Pathetic reasons? There was a case here in Quebec, where a woman had given birth 2 months prior and still did not feel ready for sex. Her stiches had just healed, she was tired and simly did not want it. Her husband got really upset, tried to force himself on her and when she struggled too much, he basically told her to leave his house ( they r Arab btw and the girl is a friend of my cousin). So in your opinion, this was pathetic of her?? Not him??
If you read my posts above, I never condoned any aggression towards any woman including wife.
Islam also does not allow aggression. Neither do I.
All throughout, I said there is no room to deny spouse his or her sexual need.
What is wrong with that?
NO.
When you gave example of this "Arab" man who acted irrationally and tried to force himself over his wife, that is plain and simple wrong.
(I am agreeing with your story here, just to agree with, otherwise, I am aware of Muslims, Pakistanis and Arabs made up stories and bias against them )
But if you read my posts above, you should have noticed what I said.
I said the marriage must have been in trouble even BEFORE this kind of event happens.
What makes a wife deny her husband sexual advances...despite she had baby of two months and stitches etc etc, as you described is not necessarily be true.
When marriage is on healthy term, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN try their best to please each other regardless what condition they are in.
In your scenario: Both were idiots. Regardless of who was more wrong or less. And, the husband was a jerk.
To be fair, you should make her responsible for creating the issue so big that a jerk ended up showing his jerkiness.
If denial has to be made then it has to be made in polite manner...and not making other partner feel disgusted, rejected or angry at least mentlly.
Moral:
Do not get blinded and be one sided.
Re: Marital Rape......
WHOA!!!. Just because I gave the example of a father failing to provide for his child, you think that I approve of the father's behavior? Seriously, Diwana? Such behavior on a father's part is unjust and I do condemn it. But still Islam does not entitle the child to become physically aggressive with the father.
Similarly, a husband should not use force to have sex with his wife...such behavior is like that of an animal. Don't limit the definition of animal to failure of foreplay/affection because ine is so consumed by lust/passion, whatever. Expand your mind to be on the safe side. A muslim tries to be on the safe side....and thinks about all possible behaviors (including anger, violence, etc) that reduce his dignity and that of another person's. Islam has prohibited anger in general....Aqalmand k liye yehi hidayat kaafi hai....that the deen which admonishes against anger in general can NEVER justify a husband getting sex by by force/aggression.
You could have spared me from a long lecture by just agreeing that you do condemn the father denying care to his child or children.
Re: Marital Rape......
You could have spared yourself the writing of your own long post and the writing of my own lengthy one if you gad read my previous posts carefully and understood there was no need for such a clarification from my end. Most people, I believe, would have understood that I condemn it and could have filled the gaps on their own and would not have requested that it be spelled out for them.
Re: Marital Rape......
You could have spared yourself the writing of your own long post and the writing of my own lengthy one if you gad read my previous posts carefully and understood there was no need for such a clarification from my end. Most people, I believe, would have understood that I condemn it and could have filled the gaps on their own and would not have requested that it be spelled out for them.
Ok, not arguing with you...simply meant that someone clearly says first person in the chain of reaction of disastrous result is the one who denies or finds excuse to deny....and especially IF there is no legitimate reason to deny.
And even if there is some reason, there will always be means and methods to please counter person. And if the denial is made in proper and nice way, there will not be any escalation of the argument to become a ground for divorce.
**I am completely against of those who say a woman can deny her husband sexual gratification anytime and with any excuse she wants.
And I am totally against husbands to act like that also.
**
Re: Marital Rape......
P.S. Thanks for good moderation by a mod or by an admin member.
Re: Marital Rape......
Pathetic reasons? There was a case here in Quebec, where a woman had given birth 2 months prior and still did not feel ready for sex. Her stiches had just healed, she was tired and simly did not want it. Her husband got really upset, tried to force himself on her and when she struggled too much, he basically told her to leave his house ( they r Arab btw and the girl is a friend of my cousin). So in your opinion, this was pathetic of her?? Not him??
OK.
If you read my posts above, I never condoned any aggression towards any woman including wife. Islam also does not allow aggression. Neither do I.
All throughout, I said there is no room to deny spouse his or her sexual need.
What is wrong with that?
NO.
When you gave example of this "Arab" man who acted irrationally and tried to force himself over his wife, that is plain and simple wrong.
(I am agreeing with your story here, just to agree with, otherwise, I am aware of Muslims, Pakistanis and Arabs made up stories and bias against them )
But if you read my posts above, you should have noticed what I said.
I said the marriage must have been in trouble even BEFORE this kind of event happens.
What makes a wife deny her husband sexual advances...despite she had baby of two months and stitches etc etc, as you described is not really true.
When marriage is on healthy term, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN try their best to please each other regardless what condition they are in.
In your scenario: Both were idiots. Regardless of who was more wrong or less. And, the husband was a jerk.
*To be fair, you should make her responsible for creating the issue so big that a jerk ended up showing his jerkiness.
*
[QUOTE]
If denial has to be made then it has to be made in polite manner...and not making other partner feel disgusted, rejected or angry at least mentlly.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
To be fair, you should make her responsible for creating the issue so big that a jerk ended up showing his jerkiness.
[/QUOTE]
Blaming the victim much?? Whether you agree with the definition of marital rape or believe that there can be any sort of sexual abuse in a marriage or not, what the man did in the case Nina described, is still domestic abuse. HIm forcing himself onto his wife who has barely healed, is NOT HER fault. It is entirely HIS fault. There is no room for "regardless of whose fault it was" because it was CLEARLY his fault. If a man feels disgusted, rejected and angry at his wife who is in pain and cannot have sex then the problem is again with the mental state of that man not with the woman.
You say that a marriage is about a man and woman fulfilling each other's needs. Well those needs aren't just sexual. If the man needed sex in Nina's example, then the woman needed love and care. You need to grow up and get your head out of whatever the hell kind of twisted land it currently resides in.