You seem to be very familiar, almost intimate, with this sewer dwelling lifestyle you speak of.
if you miss it so much just go back. If the rats let you back in that is. They might be too clean for you.
Its very sad that even with two usernames (that we now know of) you still couldnt be a half decent human being. By now you hace diminished any credibility you may have had. But you tried and thats what matters. Better luck next time!
Re: Marital Rape......
You seem to be very familiar, almost intimate, with this sewer dwelling lifestyle you speak of.
if you miss it so much just go back. If the rats let you back in that is. They might be too clean for you.
Its very sad that even with two usernames (that we now know of) you still couldnt be a half decent human being. By now you hace diminished any credibility you may have had. But you tried and thats what matters. Better luck next time!
Just flushed the toilet that ought to get rid of you..put you on ignore
Re: Marital Rape......
The fact that there is a *ing debate on whether marital rape exists or not says there is something wrong here. * NO MEANS NO KIDDOS. Your spouse is not obligated to screw you whenever YOU want to, it has to be a mutual thing.
Maybe you need to stop reciting that like a child yourself.
First no is what is problem in marriage to begin with.
Re: Marital Rape......
Diwana....we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this issue. I already knew you were going to severely limit your interpretation of "animal" to refer to being in a state where one is so caught up in passion that one skips foreplay and affection altogether. I'm not being emotional; I am not advocating that wives deny sex frequently without reason at the detriment of the marriage. I'm using my sense based on the above hadith. I don't care if you disagree, Diwana, because I am not trying to convince you.
I am not denying that a husband and wife don't have sexyal rights upon each other as some people in this thread are doing. Both partners DO indeed have such rights over each other.....but there is a prescribed manner for fulfilling those rights. It is the right of a child that a father provide for him. But if the father is not fulfilling that right, does that give the child the "right" or even "liberty" to punch dad in the face in order to get that "haq" from him? No, it doesn't.
I personally believe that a good Muslim husband would not try to limit/confine the interpretation of "animal" in the hadith.......and would instead use his God-given aqal and zameer......to ask himself k kya mera yeh ravaiyya/attitude/ jaanwar jaisa hai ya nahi...is it dignified and respectable or no? A man who desires to be "careful" with the Prophet's SAWS admonishment.....is going to think very carefully about his attitude/words/manner actions....not in a limited/restricted sense......but har tarha se.....har tarha se....in an overall sense....k is imy behavior befitting of a human being or is it brusque and lacking refinement and respect as that of an animal's behavior? Aik simple sa concept hai, you're turning it into rocket science. I vaguely recall reading other references of the Prophet SAW's guidance for men for during and after sex....and even they reflect consideration for the wife and her needs/desires. From A-Z...it's supposed to reflect consideration for your wife. So, when you say, "show some good emotions" ....that will not include an attitude/manner of roughness or disrespect toward your wife in any way. Baat khatam.
No we will not.
We will not see eye to eye on this one until you agree in your own example ready to condemn the father who is not fulfilling the right.
You cannot fast forward and make people believe father is right in your scenario. First condemn the father please.
Did you not see how quickly some people skip this fact that denying to fulfill the right is wrong? :)
Those misguided women cannot have the cake and eat it too...who think they can deny their husbands anytime and for whatsoever pathetic reason they feel like.
They don't need to go all around the world blaming husbands looking for satisfaction outside marriage.
Re: Marital Rape......
Passionate:
You have been posting long before me and while I undertand you might be frustrated, you should make some efforts to make your point despite either calling someone idiot or hoping as trolling.
I can bet if you look at the matter objectively and sincerely, all my posts were responsibilities and rights of BOTH men and women and criticism was against both husbands and wives.
Some people with obvious agenda love to incite women by inciting them for being mistreated by either Muslims or Pakistanis and some women fall in to their traps with terrible results.
Re: Marital Rape......
You should be sorry. Reading all your posts in this thread has been a terrible experience for me.
This unfortunately is the stance of the majority in Pakistan, how else do we get numbers as high as 90 percent women admitting to have been abused, the best strategy is to try to keep these kinds of abusive creatures away from our society, thankfully in our province I see a lot of work visas issued to foreign nationals but I think some violent countries are excluded, this kind of mentality is isolating the country and the world is closing their doors on them, who would want people with this mentality in a civilised society and in their neighbourhood.
Re: Marital Rape......
Another example of savagery against women.
Islamabad : The assault on 10 women in Pakistan's Punjab province, with one being stripped naked and paraded through a village, is due to "misogynistic attitudes to women, an assumption by men that they can sexually harass women with impunity", a daily said Wednesday.
An editorial in the News International said that in Missan Kot Buaa in Muzzaffaragarh, 10 women of a single household were assaulted and one of them stripped naked and paraded around the village.
"It is impossible to imagine the sense of pain and degradation that all these women felt, a pain exacerbated by the fact that none of them was personally responsible for or involved in the incident that led to their public disgrace," it said.
They were attacked after the son-in-law of one of the women was accused of kidnapping a married woman.
"...it is clear that at the root lie misogynistic attitudes to women, an assumption by men that they can sexually harass women with impunity, and the primitive belief that a man's 'honour' is somehow resident in the female body and that to strike at the man one strikes at the woman," the editorial said.
The daily took exception to "a national tendency in agencies of law-and-order to turn a blind eye to what they regard as 'family matters' - and this includes murder, abduction, rape and incest - and leave things alone for the family to sort out among themselves according to whatever the local custom and practice may be".
"For many men, women are part of their portable property, mere chattels to do with as they will. They may be repositories of male honour - but women experience that in the breach rather than the observance. The shame inflicted on these innocent women is a shame we all share - but need to feel more keenly for anything to change," it added.
Pakistan has an estimated population of 180 million, half of whom are women.
Re: Marital Rape......
Bhai: We have kkf for that already. A least post the link...from your very authentic source.
Your love for Pakistanis is so much that it cannot be measured.
Re: Marital Rape......
And if you read at least my posts, those have very valid points.
It is very pathetic that some women AND MEN think even after marriage they can and should be able to live so called independant lives and can deny each other what they agreed upon at least as two consenting adults ....in vast majority marriage scenario.
I think women have a responsibility to fulfill a man's needs as do men in Islam. Absolutely. Its hard to expect loyalty if you keep using sex against your partner.
What I think some are not understanding is..........nothing warrants brutality.
And what sex means to each of the sexes.
For a man, intimacy is sex. For a woman, its called making love.
Each have a right to be fulfilled the way they desire. If a man wants his wife to be act like a stripper in the bedroom, sure. And if she wants him to be Rhett Butler...he's gotta deliver.
Seeeeeeeeeempal.
Re: Marital Rape......
I think women have a responsibility to fulfill a man's needs as do men in Islam. Absolutely. Its hard to expect loyalty if you keep using sex against your partner. ** What I think some are not understanding is..........nothing warrants brutality. ** And what sex means to each of the sexes.
For a man, intimacy is sex. For a woman, its called making love.
Each have a right to be fulfilled the way they desire. If a man wants his wife to be act like a stripper in the bedroom, sure. And if she wants him to be Rhett Butler...he's gotta deliver.
Seeeeeeeeeempal.
There has not been anything said about brutality and hence I had no reason to respond.
But since you mentioned: Brutality is not acceptable by me in any sense against women and neither Islam agrees with that.
Your blue sentence is very much appreciated. And I think you have got some understanding of my position from earlier posts or agree with them. You can be a perfect wife, I guarantee it. . :)
No. Intimacy is not ALWAYS sex for men and just for your kind information, women even in marital situation do not ALWAYS look for love making.
Take a moment next time and ask some married women, they do not ALWAYS mind being treated like sex objects by their husbands. Trust me on this one.
That is why there is no set standard which is set by Islam.
There is a hadith where it is addressed to men to go to their wives as they be pleased. (Women are like your tilth, and go to your tilth as you wish).
But then there is admonition to any act which makes a man treat woman in disrespectful way.
Hence:
Much to the surprise of Anti-Muslims, and Anti- Islam posters ( one of them just posted on rights of homosexual just to be trolling again and again)......
I must say that **Islam brings the BEST combination of freedom and responsibilities to the people of world.
**
Re: Marital Rape......
**Both men and women are responsible of taking care of each other.
If denial is to be made, then a very nice and proper way has to be used.
Like I said earlier in a different way: If the denial cannot be accepted by other partner then
1- Either they should not have been in marital relation to begin with.
2- But if they still are then other partner should not deny.
3- Hell will not break lose and sky will not fall if a woman or man genuinely try to satisfy other partner if it is demanded.
Learn to please your partners IDIOTS!
4- ONLY so called maaadern women and liberated people are so blinded with their extremist anti-marriage or anti religious ideas that they keep bringing inflammatory and stupid idea like marital rape.
5- And some gullible women keep falling in these ideas WITHOUT thinking.
6- ALL women need to be respected.
7- And even those women who ask for and enjoy being treated as sex objects in marital relation, should be treated as such.
Now roll your eyes all you want on point #7.
**
Re: Marital Rape......
Sure, but if a man or a woman cheats on their spouse because they are not getting satisfied...they will still be answerable for their acts because sex outside of marriage is after all a sin.
Islam does not excuse infidelity under any circumstance - be it man or woman.
At the end of the day, if he wants to be pleased, he has to be willing to please as well.
Romance, love, care, concern, setting the scene, making the mood for intimacy, whatever she wants...all of these things are part of pleasure.
Re: Marital Rape......
Sure, but if a man or a woman cheats on their spouse because they are not getting satisfied...**they will still be answerable for their acts **because sex outside of marriage is after all a sin.
*Islam does not excuse infidelity under any circumstance - be it man or woman. *
*At the end of the day, if he wants to be pleased, he has to be willing to please as well. *
Romance, love, care, concern, setting the scene, making the mood for intimacy,** whatever she wants**...all of these things are part of pleasure.
Yes, agreed.
Re: Marital Rape......
Maybe you need to stop reciting that like a child yourself.
First no is what is problem in marriage to begin with.
??????
So, if one night a spouse is too tired to screw and the other one wants to, that shows their marriage is declining because they are refusing sex?
If one just is not in the mood to do it, their marriage is declining because they are refusing sex?
To you, a good marriage is saying yes to sex * every time *one spouse wants it.
What the hell?
Re: Marital Rape......
??????
So, if one night a spouse is too tired to screw and the other one wants to, that shows their marriage is declining because they are refusing sex? If one just is not in the mood to do it, their marriage is declining because they are refusing sex? To you, a good marriage is saying yes to sex * every time *one spouse wants it. What the hell?
There is no post of mine which says denial itself is an indicator for marriage declining. Read above in my post # 297, where I clearly wrote "if denial cannot be accepted".
Re: Marital Rape......
Peace All
I have only just seen this ... And I have not had the benefit of reading the whole thread ... From what PushtunWarrior posted ... The counters accusing the men of using the Hadith as justification for zulm on their wives is wrong.
First of all ... The Hadith proves that men are not allowed to beat up their wives ... For if they were allowed to beat their wives to submission then ..."a man going to sleep angry" is a mute point ... Only the men who are helpless will go to sleep angry ... LOL ... So it can be seen that this Hadith is given to a culture of men who utterly respect their wives ... So much so that if their wives say "no" then they become helpless.
It is for this reason that this Hadith is a reminder to the wives to respect the contract they have signed ... Marital Rape is an oxymoron ... Because Marriage means Sex is now permitted and rape means it is not permitted ... The man or woman can easily prepare each other to become turned on to entertain each other's needs ... With may be a very few exceptions.
If a man beats his wife with or without sex or uses sex as a form of mental abuse then he is not doing zina ... He is doing zulm ... Because zina means where "sex is not allowed" ... It is merely a technical point that drives the appropriating punishment.
So again I would like to stress those Hadith prove that men would go to sleep frustrated when their wives would say no to them (they would not beat them up) and hence a gentle reminder is given to prevent this and maintain the good relations between the couple.
the second point is that in the same set of Hadith the problem of the wife refusing is only relevant if the husband remains angry ... If she says no and he can live with it without getting angry then they are in the clear ... Just read the Hadith properly and all will become clear for all here too.
:)
.
.
[quote="TheObviousTroll, post:10, topic:306365"]
??????
So, if one night a spouse is too tired to screw and the other one wants to, that shows their marriage is declining because they are refusing sex? If one just is not in the mood to do it, their marriage is declining because they are refusing sex? To you, a good marriage is saying yes to sex * every time *one spouse wants it. What the hell?
There is no post of mine which says denial itself is an indicator for marriage declining. Read above in my post # 297, where I clearly wrote "if denial cannot be accepted".
[/QUOTE]
[quote="TheObviousTroll, post:10, topic:306365"]
??????
So, if one night a spouse is too tired to screw and the other one wants to, that shows their marriage is declining because they are refusing sex? If one just is not in the mood to do it, their marriage is declining because they are refusing sex? To you, a good marriage is saying yes to sex * every time *one spouse wants it. What the hell?
There is no post of mine which says denial itself is an indicator for marriage declining. Read above in my post # 297, where I clearly wrote "if denial cannot be accepted".
[/QUOTE]
Then answer the question. That's what their asking lol. If denial cannot be accepted then what does that mean? Who has the authority to make the next move to claim what is theirs supposedly?
Ps. You still have not answered my question.. What have YOU done about the whole thing of your spouse not wanting it or vice versa. I'm asking for a real life experience not theoretical of he/she should do this. Real life experiences please.. What did you do?
I can hardly imagine diwana being the submissive type..
Re: Marital Rape......
Peace All
.. Marital Rape is an oxymoron .......
:)
That's what I say. :)