Just wanted to add that in the pre-partition politics of Indian Sub-Continent, the only politician brave enough to face and criticise the British was none other than Hazart Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah. Please remember, had he not been there, there would have been no Pakistan, and all over zealous separatists would have received the same fate as Khalistan.
For your kind perusal, I am quoting a para from a book highlighting the fact that unlike so many big shots, he was the only one who held the British Bull by its horns;
"The British hated this "Bolshevik", as Willingdon called him in 1918. A proposal to deport Jinnah to Burma was mooted twice, by Willingdon and his successor George Lloyd. Jinnah attacked Britain's economic exploitation of India. The Home Member of the Viceroy's Executive Council, H. Haig, called him "the arch enemy of the British Raj". Jinnah constantly took a principled stand on terrorism. He denounced the crime but pleaded for redress of the wrongs that drove people to it. He told the Viceroy on September 23, 1918: "It was said by the Honourable Home Member that these are not political matters, but crimes. With the utmost respect, I beg to differ from him. These are political matters and very much so. You must remember that in India before 1906 there was no such thing as criminal conspiracies of revolutionary characters ... . The cause of this, My Lord, is that there is discontent, there is dissatisfaction, there is unrest. Might I say, My Lord, that it is partly, if not wholly due to your policy .... "
Quoted from "Jinnah in Indian History" by A. G. Noorani.
And their sacrifices were ultimately shown to have accomplished nothing. Jinnah, who worked within the British Imperial system to achieve the Muslim League’s goal of an independent Muslim homeland, was far more effective than any of those individuals who opposed the system and worked outside of it.
Britain, unlike Apartheid South Africa, had a government system that tolerated peaceful dissent in the manner led by Jinnah and the Muslim League and that allowed such peaceful dissent to be effective as a means of implementing change.
In achieving independence without resorting the the use of force or suffering, Jinnah and the Muslim League emulated in British India the same success as colonial leaders in Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa 50-80 years earlier.
All of these nations did not give an inch of sacrifice but still became independent from the superpower that ruled them. Like Jinnah and the Muslim League, they patiently worked with the system, within the system, for decades to achieve nationhood without sacrifice.
good one Che. I think there is a far better chance of the many million ethnic afghan refugees in Karachi being deported to Afghanistan than Karachi being annexed by the most backwards, ethnically intolerant, economically failed states on this planet.
So why don’t you go back to doing what Afgans are good at, trading Hash for AK’s and using the money to decorate their caves.
BTW, did I ever mention that the Afghan NATIONAL AIRLINE is banned from operation in the EU due to lack of standards, joining other notable progressive states like Mozambique, Swaziland and Sierra Leone, LOL congratulations.
I will suggest my friends here that instead of spitting ethnic hatred here, please prove your point with rational arguments and historical evidences.
As for "winning freedom from a super-power through logic", these are only apologetic excuses aimed at concealing deap-seated inferiority complex. The fact of the matter is, there was not a single genuine freedom fighter in Muslim League that suffered a single day of ordeal for demanding independence from the superpower of its time. Almost Muslim Leagures were British title holders, khan bahadars, nawabs, and sirs, etc, who collaborated with the British colonialists. Sir Agha Khan, who established Muslim League, was an Ismaili even not considered a Muslim by mainstream Islamic Society and Muslim scholars. The man was very close to British imperialists.
British imperialists played a pivotal role in organizing and helping Muslim League especially during 1930s and 1940s. Even Pakistan Reosultion was authored by Choudri Sir Zafarullah Khan upon directives from Lord Linghthow which was ultimately adopted by Muslim League in its meeting on March 23, 1940. Choudri Khaliquzaman, who seconded the resolution, writes in his book, "Pathway to Pakistan" that he was feeling so guilty that night for having seconded a resolution, the author of which was not known and which was never discussed on any forum of Muslim League before, that he couldn't sleep. Actually, Choudri Sir Zafarullah Khan had requested Lord Lingthow not to reveal his name as the author of the resolution draft lest common Muslims become suspecious due to his Qadiani background.
The point is, what happened was a part of the scheming of the great powers of that time to further their strategic interests. Bacha Khan was a true hero that stood for his principles, high human values, and tolerance througout his life and whose views have been vindicated by time.
Last time I checked failed state index it showed Afghanistan at position 10th slightly better than the 9 states that topped the list.
The hash inflated the foreign bank accounts of some “pure momins” and financed vital defence projects of certain countries. You should also research why was BCCI, Bank of Credit and Commerce International, Pakistan named Bank of Crooks and Criminals International and later banned.
Thity years of war and there still is an Afghanistan as a country. Imagine what have happened to other countries if they underwent a war even for six months!
aplologies LOD. Rereading my post, I made some assumptions and stereotypes that are unfair. But fact is fact and I hope you are’nt holding your breath for Karachi to become the capital of greater Afghanistan
I would suspect the 15 million or so non-Pashtun residents of the city may have some objections
As for failed states, Pakistans recent economic achievements and the growth that anyone who goes to Karachi\Lahore\Islamabad can see would indicate, Afghanistan is’nt even in our stratosphere. There is a reason any Afghan with a donkey leaves Kabul for Karachi or Lahore to find work, and it aint the ISI thats behind that
As for the long years of war and Afghanistan still being a country - my freind, I think that has more to do with no one one caring to break it apart than anything else. Afghanistan is, and always will be, nothing more than a buffer state. In Western eyes, a barren land locked resource poor country - its only real purpose is to provide safe corridor for possible future pipelines shipping Central Asian (former USSR) oil to Western markets via ports in Pakistan.
The Pashtun bashing needs to stop. Anil Khan, it seems that you are constantly trying to prove that you are some highly educated superior Pakistani who is too good for "ignorant" Pashtuns. I have met so many of you bihari/muhajir Pashtuns who take so much pride in having the last name Khan and try to gloat in front of others by showing Pashtun ethnicity. Unlike you, a Pashtun would never show such disrespect to their own ethnicity. As a Pashtun, I do not want to seperate from Pakistan and I am very much a nationalist, however, I am proud of my ethnicity and would never refer to my fellow people as "lalas"(diction is crucial in order to present yourself as a professional, improve your vocabulary). You say you are a muslim first but quickly disrespect other people's religions; maybe you need to reassess your interpretation of Islam because you present yourself as ignorant. I bet you cannot even speak a word of Pashto and have no idea about our culture so please refrain from speaking in PASHTUN discussions until you learn more about us. Also, alot of you have shown great disrespect to Sara for being a female and that is unacceptable. All of you "educated" people should take a lesson on manners, it will help you to develop what we Pakistani's call TEHZEEB.
What makes you think I'm from Bihar or am a Mohajir? I was born in Karachi with a background from Peshawar. Secondly, how is being called a "lala' disrespectful? Many people have called my unlce Lala in terms of respect; the part that is disrespectful is when I said they are uneducated which is a FACT. I know the truth hurts but you have to deal with it. Thirdly, No I don't speak pashto but that is not pre requisite for you to be a pashtun; it depends on your heritage and fortunately (or unfortunately; however you look at it) mine is Pashtun.
The term "lala" is not an actual dictionary term but more like a slang word which can be used in different situations. As far as my knowledge goes, this word is used to refer to a individual as a dummy in a playful manner. If, however, you call someone a uneducated lala, it is disrespectful. If your telling me that you used this term in a respectful manner while fully bashing Pashtuns in your post then you are contradicting yourself. Furthermore, most of Pakistan is uneducated and was uneducated at the time of partition, we got our right to self determination and so should anyone who wants it. Pashtuns, Balochis and Sindhis are oppressed and being uneducated does not mean that they should sit there and continue to be violated. Your reasons for the the creation of Bangladesh shows that you have no idea about the struggle of the Bengalis and the struggle of the various ethnicities living within Pakistan today. I appoligize for offending you by calling you a bihari/mahajir but you do speak their language and have no knowledge of your own, you have assimilated into their culture and have no knowledge of your own, and finally you have disrespected Pashtuns and their culture, therefore, you are a Pashtun by descent and nothing else. If you do identify yourself as Pashtun then that is your right but do not disrespect us or any other religious or ethnic groups.
When speaking about Bangladesh, I was doing so from a Pakistani point of view that it was geographically impossible for us to defend that territory. Whatever I've said about the Pashtuns is not fabricated and is a fact in reality: Most of them are jahil and uneducated. Now, if you take that as an insult that is your perogative but it doesn't change reality.
Secondly Khan bhai, you and I haven't had much interaction so you don't know that Aneel Khan doesn't respond well to orders. I will do or say what I want (within limits) and un-par gawars like yourself can do NOTHING to stop me.
Bottome line is: All the pashtuns who do not want to be associated with Pakistan should pack up their sh*t and get the F out of Pak zameen; leave NWFP; it will be put to use to house the rest of the loyal Pakistanis.
It was not geographically impossible to defend our territory. Why dont you check the death tolls for Bengalis; there was enough man power to kill thousands if not millions of Bengalis. Maybe if our soldiers were not busy raping women and committing a genocide, we might not have lost the war. If India had not interfered, the situation would have been different; our army just was not strong enough, Bottom Line! I never claimed that your remarks towards Pashtuns are fabricated, I said that they are disrespectful. As far as me giving you orders, I have made suggestions, I have no aspiration to control you or anyone else on this board. Do not make this more then it is. If you feel that by using vulgar language you can enforce your arguement, your incorrect. I am Pashtun too and if your stubborn and dominate, I am twice that. I hope you have not taken this personally because there are no ill feelings on my part. Anyway, I really enjoyed this discussion; Just remember that this is a message board and nothing else.
Khan bhai, there is no doubt that what our soldiers did was wrong but don’t you think if East Pakistan was in someway geographically connected to West Pakistan there would not be a Bangladesh? I think the whole outcome would’ve been different.
There is no arguing what I’ve said regarding pashtuns is disrespectful but so is the idea of breaking Pakistan into smaller pieces. Don’t you find it offensive that members of our community are disloyal to Pakistan and actually want to separate?
Khair, we’re both Pashtuns and I’ve no hard feelings toward you either. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
You don't seem to understand what nonsense you posted about the creation of countries and seem adamant about what you said was correct.
You have some obcession about man-woman relation as it relates to Islam. Since you are listening to a lot of media crap about treatment of women. Somehow, I am compelled to say you are not looking at things practically. If you claim to be superior then you prove to be equally stupid too by posting such comments on this forum here and there.
A geographical connection would have made a major impact on East/West Pakistani relations, however, so many other factors must be considered. It was not impossible to keep Pakistan united even with the 2000 km gap dividing it. From day one the issue has been about rights and equal representation. Bengalis were treated as third class citizens; Bengal was more of a colony and less of a province. Bengalis were going to leave eigther way; if we were geographically connected to them maybe our army could have occupied their state for a longer period of time, however, according to our mistreatment their seperation was inevitable.
The problem today is that we have a Muhajir/Punjabi elite that runs a dictatorship in our nation. Although this government has brought Pakistan into a more financially stable situation, the insurgencies and violations being committed in Balochistan and Waziristan are hard to ignore. It is always upsetting when different groups speak of leaving Pakistan but how can we blame them? We need to restore democracy, grant local languages official status and give our people their voices back. I wish Pakistan the best but I am for the people, not the governments because with out Balochis, Pashtuns, Punjabis, Sindhis and Muhajirs there really is no Pakistan.
The problem today is that we have a Muhajir/Punjabi elite that runs a dictatorship in our nation. Although this government has brought Pakistan into a more financially stable situation, the insurgencies and violations being committed in Balochistan and Waziristan are hard to ignore. It is always upsetting when different groups speak of leaving Pakistan but how can we blame them? We need to restore democracy, grant local languages official status and give our people their voices back. I wish Pakistan the best but I am for the people, not the governments because with out Balochis, Pashtuns, Punjabis, Sindhis and Muhajirs there really is no Pakistan.
What bullcrap. A large chink of your army has been Pathan, we've had pakhtoons rule as democratic leaders and military dictators for the majority of our history. The biggest cricket hero ever for Pak is a pathan. FATA is lawless as it always was, they don't allow anyone in and neither do they pay our bills, so there is NOWAY development can ever get there, the people DONT want it -- yeah, the tribal, warring pathans living next door to Junglistan in that tribal region don't want their tribal areas to be developed. Talking about language, Urdu is the spoken/written medium throughout most of Pakistan and was the language which powered the movement which made this nation. And by the way, Chapal Kababs are almost the official cuisine of Pak now, they're just everywhere. Go around Islamabad and there are so many pathan influences, all these ethnicities have only enriched our culture, from music, food, language the arts to everything else. What more could anyone ask for? :S
good one Che. I think there is a far better chance of the many million ethnic afghan refugees in Karachi being deported to Afghanistan than Karachi being annexed by the most backwards, ethnically intolerant, economically failed states on this planet.
