Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
If you are not trolling, you appear to be making some pretty dangerous comments re:what this person deserves. I guess I justread you wrong.
Read some of the posts carefully, you might learn something.
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
Yeah all I am gonna learn is how to make judgments based on limited information and a lot of bigoted opinions. I rather see the facts and see the decision by the Saudi Courts before I pass a judgment.
This person deserves what the courts decide. The same applies in Europe or the US. Like the issue of the Hijab in France. The Courts decided it was legal to violate the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. I disagree with it but the courts have decided and their decision is binding. You can't violate the law just because you disagree with it.
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
When laws are barbaric and punishment could be death, decent people from all over the world should protest. You wanted proof that this person will be put to death. For that we certainly will have to wait. We can go by precedence. Is it reasonable to conclude that there is a good chance this person will be put ot death based on precedence. Yes. Haviing that opinion is not bigotry.
The only bigotry I saw was folks who felt the need to bring up the holocaust.
I think you are a decent guy - but sometimes I just shake my head at your comments.
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
Okay so who decides whats decent?
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
Just like p__n, decency is something that need not be defined. And you know it. If this is a debate, I will lose gladly. But if it is about decency, you will know what I am talking about.
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
Good to see what I am getting at and that is why you are not answering the question. If you say a certain community defines what is decent you are easily casting judgement on the rest of the world who disagrees saying they aren't decent or good people. That is arrogant and smacks of neo-colonialism. You know this very well that is why you don't want to get bogged down on such matter.
In matters of freedom of speech decency is used to vilify and insult the other group. Something you brought up yourself.
So if decency does not need to be defined, it doesn't matter what people think. The law is the law. You can not violate it just because you disagree with it. No matter how decent a person you are.
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
As I said, I have already lost theh debate to you. I stated decent people should protest at the prospect of this person being put to death. You want the definitioon of decency and who decides what is decent. I say - this is impossoble to pin down. One just knows what is the decent thing to do - to protest injustice - in this case - potential murder of this man.
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
Its not an issue of losing a debate or winning one. I care for neither. What I am trying to point out that when you start applying adjectives to how laws are decent or indecent you are applying an external judgment and frankly insulting those who disagree with you.
A discussion I was having with a friend who is a human rights officer. She openly stated that the Taliban were indecent for forcing women to hear the Burqa. I agree with her. Then I stated the French Government was equally indecent for forcing women not to wear what they want - the Hijab. However she and a majority of the west would find that perfectly acceptable. While most from the Muslim world and Asia would not.
The guy has not been put to death yet anyway. So you are making a preemptive judgement on stereotypes. And that is being decent?
Forcing a woman to take of clothes or wear clothes against her will is indecent. So anybody who doesn't protest this injustice is no longer a decent person?
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
Interesting that everybody has already said he is a dead man. Talk about being bigoted, judgmental and racist.
What is bigoted about it? Stating obvious isn't bigotry. Btw, if anything, its the religious zealous who are intolerance of others views.
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
Peace psyah,
Tell me this: Why does God who supposedly controls everything in the universe is so petty that he cares about things like who is tweeting about who/what? Btw, our existence in the universe on a galactic scale are totally insignificant.
Peace Shamraz Khan
As I said earlier ... it is not to do about God, but how our actions affect society. It is not befitting for us to entertain the notion that God s affected by the actions of humans ... For sure Allah (SWT) neither needs our prayers nor is adversely affected by any of our disobedience. He is High and Above all reproach.
Rather we need to pray for ourselves and Allah (SWT) prescribes it upon us for our own good. Likewise it is for our (societies) sake that we do not utter against Allah (SWT) and his prophet (SAW) to prevent the consequences of fitnah. Furthermore you are negating the words of Allah (SWT) when you say we are insignificant compared to the galactic scale - we share the form of the best of Creation - we are made in the best of molds, we have been given a great honour from Allah (SWT) and to diminish that may sound humble, but it is not accurate.
Yes, we are small but the whole universe and everything in it combined is insignificant to Allah (SWT) all the same. As Allah (SWT) said in the Qur'an that He can present examples of things even smaller than a gnat ... so Allah (SWT) can be bothered to provide us examples of even a gnat and that we are told on that Day every atoms weight of good or evil we did we shall see it then - I'm sure a few tweets do qualify at least for us to be concerned with ... However I do not share the opinion of the Saudi scholars who say that death is issued even if the person seeks forgiveness and admits his mistake.
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
What is bigoted about it? Stating obvious isn't bigotry. Btw, if anything, its the religious zealous who are intolerance of others views.
You are prejudging an outcome based on stereotypes and religious dogma. Isn't that intolerance as well?
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
Someone's head is going to roll (literally) over this? :
"On your birthday, I will say that I have loved the rebel in you, that you've always been a source of inspiration to me, and that I do not like the halos of divinity around you. I shall not pray for you."
"On your birthday, I find you wherever I turn. I will say that I have loved aspects of you, hated others, and could not understand many more."
"On your birthday, I shall not bow to you. I shall not kiss your hand. Rather, I shall shake it as equals do, and smile at you as you smile at me. I shall speak to you as a friend, no more."
What do you see in the above? I see a thoughtful 23 year old beyond his years. I sense the disillusionment of a perceptive, inquiring mind. I also appreciate why he's a poet and editor. The man is a wordsmith. You have to be heartless, dogmatic, and utterly devoid of an imagination to believe this individual deserves to die, that he deserves jail-time, or that this is about protecting religion.
This is not even a case of reckless or malicious hate speech, a pastor burning the Quran, or incitement to violence. This is an opinion, and he has a right to express it. And he did so elegantly, no matter how controversial you find the content. Did he cause harm? No, I don't believe so. (Practically anything you say or do in a police state can and will cause an adverse reaction for that matter - where does it stop?). Did he cause offense? Obviously. But does the offense principle justify execution or imprisonment?
I don't believe this 23 yr old was high, or being stupid. His further comments reflect a larger realization about transforming Saudi culture and breeding tolerance: "I view my actions as part of a process toward freedom. I was demanding my right to practice the most basic human rights—freedom of expression and thought—so nothing was done in vain. I believe I'm just a scapegoat for a larger conflict. There are a lot of people like me in Saudi Arabia who are fighting for their rights."
Lending more insight into his personality (to me anyway) was this remark on women's rights in the Kingdom : "Saudi women won't go to hell because it's impossible to go there twice." He was also stopped by the Saudi authorities when he attempted to organize groups in solidarity with the ongoing Syrian/Arab uprising.
Peace chaibiskut
In early Islam and late pagan Arabia the words of poets were considered more severe than being fought in a battle with the opposition.
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
The guy has not been put to death yet anyway. So you are making a preemptive judgement on stereotypes. And that is being decent?
I am making an assessment based on presedence - because that is what one generally does. If the precedence is that the Saudis do not apply death penalty in such instances, than I am mistaken in my knowlede of saudi customs. But if the presedence is they have put people to death in such instances, than I am not being intolerant, just using commoon sense.
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
Blasphemy law in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Of all the examples listed of which there are a lot the only instance of killing for blasphemy was in 1992.
And you say you shake your head at my comments 
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
Its not an issue of losing a debate or winning one. I care for neither. What I am trying to point out that when you start applying adjectives to how laws are decent or indecent you are applying an external judgment and frankly insulting those who disagree with you.
A discussion I was having with a friend who is a human rights officer. She openly stated that the Taliban were indecent for forcing women to hear the Burqa. I agree with her. Then I stated the French Government was equally indecent for forcing women not to wear what they want - the Hijab. However she and a majority of the west would find that perfectly acceptable. While most from the Muslim world and Asia would not.
The guy has not been put to death yet anyway. So you are making a preemptive judgement on stereotypes. And that is being decent?
Forcing a woman to take of clothes or wear clothes against her will is indecent. So anybody who doesn't protest this injustice is no longer a decent person?
if you ask muslim women about burqa can you tell what will be their answer ?
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
if you ask muslim women about burqa can you tell what will be their answer ?
i think same that will be of hindu sadhwis when sadhwis will be asked about sex?
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
OK - this is encouraging - if only one person has been killed in Saudi ever for blasphemy, and if this act falls under blasphemy, there is hope for this person’s life. (Have a good week 
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
In Islam, there is supposed to be no compulsion in religion. Yet there is a sin of apostasy.
There are also numerous hadith that tell us that the prophet never pursued any sort of retribution on those that insulted him. Yet this guy is about to be put to death?!?!
Those in charge have the option of choosing to apply the part that says there is no compulsion in faith, hence the guy is innocent. Secondly, if he did insult the prophet, then one only need to follow the example of the Prophet (as you rightfully pointed out we should do according to the koran), then once again the guy should be forgiven.
Yet they willfully choose not to judge the man along those lines, the parts of Islam that emphasize forgiveness, but instead have decided he should be punished.
This all seems less to do with the teachings of Islam, and more to do with hatred and intolerance for anyone with divergent opinion.
As far as Harm is concerned. In the US, you are free to post hateful speech. There is no law against holocaust denial. Anyone can post anything, even on the hour of 9/11, and there is no law to prevent you. The state is obliged to defend those rights, should you be threatened with physical harm over such things.
The only thing preventing such speech is common decency. So you are free to insult whoever you like, but eventually you will be shunned into silence. So people like the pastor in Florida are free to burn whatever he likes, but he is considered a quack the mainstream and so you wont hear anything of him…
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
Again, this constitutes offensive comments against a religious figure, not incitement to hatred or violence. We tend to equate offense with incitement. Who was he inciting hatred against and how? Libel doesn't even apply here, because you cannot prove the statements that he won't pray to the Prophet, or hates aspects of him to be true or untrue - i.e. this isn't slander or a false accusation. What part of his speech was threatening? Who is the individual or group he was intimidating? Nobody but him was put in danger due to his comments.
He also did not expect the extent of the reaction his tweets produced - intentions count in prosecution - which he expressed in a public statement after deleting the tweets. I do not see intent to cause a riot here, or the encouragement of violence or discrimination.
There's a difference between criticism/questioning of religion/religious figures, and incitement to hatred, and to conclude the former leads to the latter is inaccurate. Defamation (which doesn't even apply here) of religions/prophets is not inconsistent with the right to freedom of expression in the international community. You can extract an apology, but you cannot criminalize people for causing "hurt feelings." You can, however, do whatever you like with him under national blasphemy laws.
He said he won't pray for the Prophet in a fictitious dialogue. So bloody what? Why does his honesty scare us? You can't force anyone to pray to God, let alone for mortal Messengers. You cannot shield the content of any religion or philosophy from criticism or debate - if it's worth its salt it will stand up to scrutiny. The road to understanding includes critical inspection, unless we believe God wants us to be sheep. He said he hates how divinity is attributed to the Prophet - something the Prophet forbade himself. What would the Prophet do had this been said to his face? Would the Prophet react like we do?
Pink elephant in the room : why do ambiguously defined blasphemy laws exist in Muslim countries in the first place? Any law that protects beliefs/ideas instead of people is a bad idea, not to mention a legal and moral swamp. If the UK repealed its blasphemy law in '08, so can Pakistan.
Re: Malaysia deports Saudi journalist accused of insulting prophet
Saudis won't do that. It would have been another case if the culprit was a non-Saudi Muslim.
Interestingly, some of the criticism directed at him by his fellow countrymen includes not being 'Saudi enough' - he has Turkish roots.
(But that's not racism, it's a conspiracy by the enemies of Islam to make Saudis look bad. Someone in the West secretly commissions the Saudi ruling class/clergy/sections of society to behave like bigots).