I can't play video here, but can you deny killings of civilians and their homes / schools in drone attacks?
Why so much investigation for drone attacks, when we tend to accept anything against religious people by saying Aamana Sadaqna?
What do you mean by religious people? I do not consider Taliban as religious people, at least people following religion 'Islam'. As for investigation, that is what Islam teaches us, that to investigate first before commenting, accepting information/news, or accusing someone (Muslim or non-Muslim), so investigation is necessary. .... no Aamanna Sadaqna on anything :)
What do you mean by religious people? I do not consider Taliban as religious people, at least people following religion 'Islam'. As for investigation, that is what Islam teaches us, that to investigate first before commenting, accepting information/news, or accusing someone (Muslim or non-Muslim), so investigation is necessary. .... no Aamanna Sadaqna on anything :)
ulema who are being condemned on Malala issue. so you deny killing of innocent civilians and consider drone attacks justified?
Hamid Mir (active supporter of Taliban), Ansar Abbasi (He is expert in creating fake stories supporting Taliban and lies blatantly to fulfil his agenda that is Taliban oriented), Orya Maqbool Jan, Dr Shahid Masood (expert in creating drama out of nothing if it suits him), Talat Hussain (to an extend), even Kashif Abbasi (to an extend) ...
Amazing.....
Not anyone else believe what you believe. Bring me a single talk show example in 'support' of Taliban from any of anchor(not ansar abbasi and orya maqbool jan ) you mentioned above.
wait, you dont need to search if you assume thier shows on drone attacks are in support of taliban, I already agree.
Again, a columnist cant create hype not even anchors but supra libral media forces.
ulema who are being condemned on Malala issue. so you deny killing of innocent civilians and consider drone attacks justified?
What Ulema? So-called Ulema who do not condemn even suicide attacks or killing of innocent civilians intentionally?
No, I am not denying that some innocent civilians may have got killed due to drone strikes. Nevertheless, I believe all who got killed due to drone strikes were unintentional, hence their killing were accidental.
As for me considering drone attacks justified, then yes, I think that it is justified. I wrote about that in some of my other posts (without pinching words) why I consider that it is justified. I consider that all drone attacks are happening with consent of Pakistan government and Pakistan army, so they are not violation of Pakistan sovereignty. Actually, I believe that most who got killed due to drone strikes were terrorists (I gave figures in one of my posts with reference) and thus drone attacks is making Pakistan #secure and safe# from Taliban animals. else these animals would be killing more Pakistanis. Thus, in a way drone strikes is saving life of many Pakistanis by eliminating terrorists whom Pakistan forces are unable to eliminate.
As for those saying that Taliban are killing Pakistani civilians because drones are killing innocent civilians, than that is farce. Actual fact is that, it is mostly Taliban who are killing innocent civilians (they may have killed 10s of thousands innocent Pakistanis in all four provinces as well as Gilgit) ... and worse is that, all whom Taliban killed, they were intentional killings. If people would have risen due to innocent civilian killings then they would have stood against Taliban and not drone strikes or Pakistan army killing Taliban terrorists.
Check Hamid Mir call recordings on You-tube talking to Taliban leader and telling them that Khalid Khawja (whom Taliban abducted) deserve getting killed, who was later killed by Taliban. Shows how much close Hamid Mir is to Taliban.
Pakistani TV anchor and senior journalist Hamid Mir seems to have bitten off more than he can chew with the release of his recorded conversation with a close aide of Hakimullah Mehsud.
The Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence are said to be investigating what role Hamid Mir has played in the assasination of Retd Squadron Leader Khalid Khawaja, who was kidnapped by a shadowy outfit calling itself the ‘Asian Tigers’, part of the Pakistani Taliban (TTP).
The shocking audiotape of a conversation between Hamid Mir – one of the country’s top TV anchors – and a man purportedly linked to the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan, has revealed that negative information that Mir passed on to the Taliban could have led to the execution of Khalid Khawaja, the retired Air Force official allegedly killed by a group calling themselves the ‘Asian Tigers’.
The tape – which has Mir divulging dirt on Khawaja, ostensibly to someone who is going to cross examine him – was first posted by the Let Us Build Pakistan blog, and picked up by other online publications. It is still unclear who made the tape, with online speculation suggesting that it could be the militants themselves, or even intelligence agencies who released the recording.
Whatever the source may be, it is clear that one of the voices on the tape is Mir’s, a fact corroborated by his allusions to events such as his sacking from the daily Ausaf. In the tape, the person on the other end asks Mir for information on Khalid Khawaja. The content of the conversation suggests that this call was made before Khawaja’s execution earlier this month. Mir goes on to detail what he knows about Khawaja’s background, linking him to the CIA, an international network of Qadianis and an American named Mansur Ejaz, who, Mir claims, even offered to solve the Kashmir issue.
At one point, the voice on the other end claims to have abducted Khawaja. Here, Mir volunteers further information linking Khawaja to the Lal Masjid operation, saying that Khawaja and his wife were the ones responsible for the death of Ghazi Rasheed and the humiliating capture of Maulana Abdul Aziz and his family. Mir then urges the man to cross-examine Khawaja about his relationship with Mansur Ejaz, Qadianis and a CIA agent named William Casey.
Mir also mentions Javed Paracha – the Kohat-based PML-N lawmaker who offered to mediate Khawaja’s release. Towards the end of the tape, the voice on the other end says that he will relay the information (that Mir has given) to Hakeemullah Mehsud.
Below is the transcript (English Translation) of the entire conversation:
Hamid Mir: Many bombings are being carried out.
Unidentified man: Let’s see. There will be more of them. There are some in the pipeline. What do they (government) say about the operation in Orakzai? Will they stop it or not?
HM: No, they say it would not be stopped, rather they say they will also start an operation in North Waziristan and 40,000 troops will leave in a couple of days.
UM: In North Waziristan?
HM: Yes.
UM: Do you have any report on Khalid Khawaja etc.
HM: They say Khalid Khawaja Saab is in custody of one Azam Afridi in Darrakhel.
UM: Yes, yes Tariq Afridi (correcting HM).
HM: They are in Tariq Afridi’s custody.
UM: OK.
HM: Yes.
UM: So, are they men of the government or ISI?
HM: Who?
UM: These, Khalid Khawaja and Colonel Imam.
HM: Khalid Khawaja, according to my opinion, is not an ISI man, rather he is a CIA agent, an American CIA agent and he has links with the Taliban leadership.
UM: Yes, he met with Hakimullah and others when he came here last time.
HM: I personally know that Khalid Khawaja has links not only with CIA but he is also a front man of Mansoor Ijaz who belongs to a very big international network of Qadiyanis. Once he came to me along with Mansoor, who had a briefcase with him, and Khalid Saab told me that Mansoor is a key representative of the US government, so arrange his meeting with Syed Salahuddin, who is a mujahideen leader, and he along with him would resolve the Kashmir issue.
UM: All right.
HM: But I asked him what charm or magic lamp does he posses for the resolution of the Kashmir dispute. He said he had links with the Indian government and (Atal Bihari) Vajpayee Jee, which surprised me. I didn’t arrange the meeting, but I asked Mr Salahuddin who said Khalid Khawaja is sending messages that you should directly talk to India and the US on the issue and exclude Pakistan from it.
UM: All right, all right.
HM: After that, Mansoor Ijaz also asked me: Are you with us or not? I said, “I am not with you.” Then he conspired against me and got me sacked from the Daily Ausaf when I was its editor. So, I think Khalid Khawaja not only has links with the CIA but he is also an agent of the Qadiyanis, and I am very sad that he used to go to the Tribal Areas and meet leaders there.
UM: But now, I think, the Taliban have caught him and have demanded $10 million for the journalist.
HM: Do you know what part his (Khalid Khawaja’s) wife played in Lal Masjid?
UM: No, but it was something negative.
HM: It was that Maulana Abdul Rashid Ghazi Saab – may Allah bless him with a place in heavens. What he told me in his last days was, do you know that he did not completely agree with Maulana Aziz.
UM: Yes, yes.
HM: Mr Abdul Rashid Ghazi wanted to save the students inside the mosque and for that he showed flexibility and said, “I am ready to surrender on the condition that those who are with me will not be arrested and will be released.” But Khalid Khawaja’s wife was pressurised so much by Ume Hassaan that Maulana Abdul Aziz, without asking his brother, came out in a burqa, and Khalid Khawaja was involved in it (call disconnected).
UM: Assalam-o-Alaikum!
HM: Yes,
UM: The call got disconnected.
HM: Ok.
UM: So, what were you saying about his wife?
HM: Yes, I was telling you that his wife pressurised him so much that Ghazi Saab said, “She says we have to fight, just fight for martyrdom.” After that Mr Khalid Khawaja came out of the mosque and his wife also fled, Khalid Khawaja’s wife.
UM: Yes, we heard that she had fled after that.
HM: Yes, she ran away and then Maulana Abdul Aziz also came out in the burqa.
UM: I think, he insisted for that.
HM: Yes, he had done all this. After that Maulana Abdul Aziz was arrested and Mr Abdul Rashid Ghazi telephoned me and said, “Now, I don’t have any option. Now, my family and ulema have been defamed as my brother was arrested in a burqa and presented on Pakistan Television. This is a large stain which can only be removed with my blood.” So, he lived up to his words and sacrificed. So, Khalid Khawaja and his wife, anyone may know or not, they will have to answer before Allah Almighty.
UM: He, recently, came here and met my companions. He was saying, “You can work in Pakistan as we say, if you want to. I can arrange your ‘setting’ with an admiral in Mianwali. So, you should not burn US containers in Pakistan, you can rob them and sell them to a person recommended by us.” He was saying, “We would provide you everything for carrying out activities in Pakistan.”
HM: Do whatever you want to with the containers, burn them or rob them, I have nothing to do with it. But ask him what relationship he has with Mansoor Ijaz and William Casey? William Casey was the chief of CIA.
UM: Right, right.
HM: He (Khawaja) himself has confessed in front me that he had links with William Casey. Ok! Leave William, ask him about the Qadiyanis, because I personally believe that Qadiyanis are worse than infidels, what kind of links does he have with Qadiyanis? What relationship does he have with Mansoor Ijaz? Why does he use his money? Why does he go everywhere with him when he comes to Pakistan? Why does he bring him to the mujahideen?
UM: Yes, he has a son in al Qaeda.
HM: Yes, his son would also be a spy like him.
UM: Yes, I talked to the shaikhs about him. They said they were keeping him on the sidelines.
HM: His biggest betrayal to me was that there was a mujahid, Abdul Rehman Al Canady.
UM: Yes, there was one Canady.
HM: He was martyred in North Waziristan. He came to me with Canady’s wife and a daughter, saying Canady’s son, Karim, is at Rawalpindi’s CMH and is injured and the army had arrested him. He asked me to arrange a meeting between the injured and his mother. I said this is very difficult for me and I can’t do this because already they are all against me. But, he said all that you need to do is to arrange a meeting between a mother and her son. So, I arranged it with a lot of difficulties and sent the woman to Rawalpindi CMH, but when she reached there she took a camera out of her burqa and asked her son to record a message that he is innocent, has no links with anyone and has been kept here illegally. She was arrested there because a nurse saw her and seized the camera from her. But I was held responsible for all of it as they told me that I had sent this woman. It was revealed after her arrest that the woman had a Canadian passport and had visited Canada two months ago. After that I faced a lot of difficulties. The Canadian government released the woman and her daughter and then she went back to Canada. In Toronto, she held a press conference and admitted that she worked for the CIA. Now Khalid Khawaja has a long beard and his wife wears a full veil so people like us, who are involved in worldly affairs and have committed sins, believe that if we will help them, we might be forgotten for our sins. When these kinds of people betray us, we lose confidence on the religion itself.
UM: Absolutely, neither we are wrong nor is the army, but people like him have created the difficulties.
HM: However, if he is somewhere, ask him at least that you used the name of Abdul Rehman Canady, you worked with Mansoor Ijaz, you have worked William Casey. And there is one Javaid Ibrahim Piracha, who has a very big seminary in Kohat.
UM: Yes, yes.
HM: You all know the services of Piracha Saab. So, he fraudulently invited Piracha Saab in Islamabad and told him he wanted to arrange his meeting with a prominent personality. He took him to the US deputy foreign minister at Serena Hotel and said, “He is Mr Piracha and he can arrange your talks with the al Qaeda and Taliban.” Piracha Saab is a well-educated person. I observed that he was betrayed and came out of the room and escaped from there. Then he called me and said, “You were right about him (Khalid Khawaja).”
UM: Right, right. He went to him last time.
HM: Yes, Piracha Saab told me about that. He said, “He came to me and Col Imam was also here and told Col Imam that don’t go anywhere with this guy.” He (Piracha) said, “What can I do if he comes here and I can’t force him out of my house, but you don’t go anywhere with him.” Mr Piracha said Col Imam didn’t want to go with Khalid Khawaja, but he forced him to go with him.
UM: Right, maybe to use as human shield. But Shah Abdul Aziz, that MNA of Kirk, is supporting him a lot. He was meeting everyone here and asking for his release.
HM: He would have fooled Shah Abdul Aziz.
UM: Yes, he was asking people to release him and said you may keep the journalist, whose ransom will be paid to you by him.
HM: Ok! His release depends on them who have kept him, but convey them these three questions that what is your link with Mansoor Ijaz, whose father fled with the atomic secrets of Pakistan. Mansoor Ijaz’s father was an atomic scientist and he fled to the US with the atomic secrets of Pakistan. Once he (Ijaz) offered Benazir Bhutto a quid pro quo deal in 1995 that all the debts of the country will be forgiven, if she recognised Israel. That means he was also an agent of Israel.
UM: Yes, he used to ask my companions to work in Pakistan “as we say”. Actually, the killings of brigadiers in Rawalpindi might have been arranged by him, I think.
HM: It might be possible, but I have been watching this guy for the last 13 or 14 years and he is a suspected man.
UM: OK. Inshallah, I will meet Hakimullah in two or three days and talk to him about all this.
HM: All right
UM: Thank you so much.
HM: Assalam-o-Alaikum!
UM: Assalam-o-Alaikum!
so if someone is condemning attack on malala and not condemning attack in karachi or attacks by drone is ok with you?
then opposite should be ok with you right?.........:)
Yes its perfectly fine with me. See its nothing polictical, but not everyone is on top of all the news. Like in my case, beleive it or not, my only source of desi news is GS. I dont read Desi online newspaper, I dont have GEO or ARY at home, I dont have any close relative in Pakistan whom I would talk to every week, I am not even active on Facebook, so when I learn about state of affairs in Pakistan, I learn from GS. I did not know of any students killing happening in Pakistan till OP started this thread. Similarly I did not know about Malala till someone started a thread in PA.
Point is, there are people like myself, who are not aware of every event happening in Pakistan, so they will react only on what they stumble upon on an online forum. That means that if someone is not aware of Karachi killings, but is only aware of Malala incident then we cannot say that 'hey, go and update yourself about everything happening in Pakistan before you condemn this event'.
so if someone is condemning attack on malala and not condemning attack in karachi or attacks by drone is ok with you?
then opposite should be ok with you right?.........:)
Oh now I know what you mean.
Sure it should be OK with me. But not condemning is one thing, and justifying is another. Former is being indifferent, latter is defending the attackers.
Sure it should be OK with me. But not condemning is one thing, and justifying is another. Former is being indifferent, latter is defending the attackers.
sub kuch perh ker ..molvion ko k ley bura bhala ker ker thread say aram say wapis jana tha ..app bhool gaye .
[quote="“kakaballi, post:25, topic:270799"”]
jo molvi hamain shia ya sunni honay ya music sun-nay pe maartay hain, un key baray main kya hukum hai?
[/quote]
mujhay to app zinda lag rahay hain ..kia app mar chukay hain kissi molvi k hatoon ?
[quote="“Ali_Syed, post:16, topic:270821"”]
I dont know whats being discussed in this thread…
[/quote]
aray app na haq thread parha .. app k ley tha he nahi kuch …
[quote="“Ali_Syed, post:13, topic:270693"”]
Dont worry jin molvion ki aap himayat kar rahay ho woh hum sub ko maar kar marain gay
[/quote]
main to jin ki himayat ker rahee hoon woh is duniya main hain hee nahi /…lakin app zinda hain ..hayrat hai !
[quote="“TLK, post:34, topic:270821"”]
Bas aap se yehi sunna thaa. Agar aaj sare ulema srif yehi keh dain ke Taliban kee ghaltiyon se hamaara taaluq nahi to quom khush naa ho jaa’ai?
Awaam ka ghussa isi baat ka tou hai. Taliban to wehshi hain, hum sab jaante hain. Ulema are our leaders and we look up to them so they can say ke haan beta, in ki yeah harkat ghalat hai. Maine tou aaj tuk khula bayaan kahi nahi parhaa kisi aalim ka talibaan ke against. aap kehti hain tou hum maan laite hain
[/quote]
main bhi awaam hoon . is thread k himaayti bhi awam hain …
perhnay ki kia bat kertay hain app … or sunnay ki kia bat kertay hain
WOW … Hamid Mir and his Hatred of Qadiyanis … Keep it up
BTW it Zia-ul-Haq who agreed to work with Israel (on US insistence) to get the Egyptian Weapons (Israel got hold of during the War) of Russian Origin to hand them over to Afghan Mujahedins … and the rest as they say is History
it would be a surpirse if you could explain about kashif abbasi
Anyhow, let’s talk about Hamid Mir.
Hamird mir is man of ‘rating’. “Rating k leay sala kuch bhi karay ga” is what people of his own channel say about him. Hamid Mir has stopped making Ansar abbasi a mandatory part/guest of his shows since his stance turned religious. So portraying Hamid Mir as Taliban supporter is simplicity of thought.
One irony I learned long time ago about Taliban apologists and other religious extremists is that they could lie unabashedly if it suits them in anyway. So not sure if these pics are actually those of drone victims and not those of Taliban terrorism. They could be.
Secondly, one should be able to see the difference between victims of drone attacks and attack on people like Malala. When US executes drone strikes, it never says that it is doing it only to kill innocent civilians. It might not care if civilians get killed but that never is the purpose of those strikes.
On the other hand, when Taliban attacked Malala then they clearly said that they wanted to kill just HER, an innocent civilian. And that they will kill her father too.
Drones have been every effective in eliminating terrorists. Without these drones it would have taken even more number of civilians to be killed before they could be eliminated.
Instead of stopping drone attacks, what is needed by Pak government is to increase the intelligence sharing with US to select proper targets. This will result in less number of innocent people become victims of these attacks.
One irony I learned long time ago about Taliban apologists and other religious extremists is that they could lie unabashedly if it suits them in anyway. So not sure if these pics are actually those of drone victims and not those of Taliban terrorism. They could be.
Brother Khoji I feel same is true with so called liberals, who can deny anything to prove their point. You probably forget to have a look at report from Telegraph, which is not supported by religious people.
[QUOTE]
Secondly, one should be able to see the difference between victims of drone attacks and attack on people like Malala. When US executes drone strikes, it never says that it is doing it only to kill innocent civilians. It might not care if civilians get killed but that never is the purpose of those strikes.
[/QUOTE]
For murder of a person is same. I don't accept excuses that what was the intention of murderer. These liberals on one side says that war should be last resort and have made others countries war fields for their fowl agendas. By your analogy, if someone attack national assembly to kill few corrupt politicians, that would be justifiable.
[QUOTE]
On the other hand, when Taliban attacked Malala then they clearly said that they wanted to kill just HER, an innocent civilian. And they will kill her father too.
[/QUOTE]
That is condemnable but doesn't justify killing of thousands in drone attacks.
Drones have been every effective in eliminating terrorists. Without these drones it would have taken even more number of civilians to be killed before they could be eliminated.
Instead of stopping drone attacks, what is needed by Pak government is to increase the intelligence sharing with US to select proper targets. This will result in less number of innocent people become victims of these attacks.
Drones have been effective to create anger in tribal area, which is providing easy recruitment facilities to Taleban. Jab kisi ka apna na-haq maara jata hai, phir uss main ache bure ki tameez nahin rehti... you probably know the psyche of tribal people for getting revenge.
So if Americans are killing our children, it is justified that the taliban kill them as well?
who said that?
This thread is about unequal media coverage and lack of political support against killings caused by drones and people being killed due to suspicion that they belong to Taleban.
Brother Khoji I feel same is true with so called liberals, who can deny anything to prove their point. You probably forget to have a look at report from Telegraph, which is not supported by religious people.
Extremists could be anywhere. Blind prejudice is not associated with religious or non-religious people.
I have not seen the report from Telegraph. My comment was more general in nature.
[quote]
For murder of a person is same. I don't accept excuses that what was the intention of murderer.
[/quote]
Ok. I can't change your mind. But I believe intention is everything. Killing of an innocent person when trying to target a criminal is also bad. But even worse is killing an innocent person deliberately and then make it a religious duty for everyone by citing religion as the source of this crime. Big difference.
Also, Americans don't say that they will use drone strikes to kill innocent civilians throughout Pakistan. But Taliban say just that. They will kill anyone who supports education of girls and opposes them all over the country. In this sense, this attack on Malala is not just an attack on one girl but the beginning of attacks everywhere. If this evil is not nipped right now then it will haunt us in future.
[quote]
These liberals on one side says that war should be last resort and have made others countries war fields for their fowl agendas.
[/quote]
That is true about American Zionist neo-conservatives. And these are the people who hate to be labeled as 'liberals'. Liberals are their enemies.
This thread is about unequal media coverage and lack of political support against killings caused by drones and people being killed due to suspicion that they belong to Taleban.
Unequal? Yes, I get pissed off by media's unequal coverage to certain events as well. E.g. Shoaib Malik's wedding etc. But media organizations are not like the elected members of parliament who are answerable to anyone. They are businesses. They show what they think brings profit. I don't like what they show sometimes, but then I switch to another channel which I think is showing something more sensible and thats how I protest, hurt their business.
Bringing the name of a 14 year old kid, alleging her of being a traitor, CIA agent, that she wasn't even shot, that she is faking, that she is involved in a conspiracy is a very wrong way of protesting against media's double standards. Why bring Malala in this hole debate of media's double standards? why not think about its implications on her? why not think that we are hurting a little child by bringing her name in this controversy? Let the child live in peace and find other ways of protesting against media's UNEQUAL coverage or the hypocrisy of the govt or that of the USA. If the media, USA, our govt or anyone else is using Malala's situation to their advantage, lets still not hurt OUR child.
.
