fighting undercover? lol. I dont even understand what you're implying here (actually, I never really understand your posts)..
If im not being honest, please dont bother quoting me trying to start an argument for the sake of it.
I have quoted your comments where you say you believe in secular humanism, don't believe in religion etc. Not sure why it is hard to believe. Why would anyone hide their beliefs anyway? The way i see it this topic is about loopholes in religions not any specific religion.
ok I am not really sherlock holmes, so I can be totally wrong, but only a Christian thinks it is an offence to call Jesus(pbuh)
a human, or not a son-of-God.
A hindu/mulmis atheist wont even know what it meant to Christians. I have converse with enough Christians to know her tone and arguments. Any ways we are not discussing people here.
Sorry Bella, he made me talk about you.
please stop your obsession with me. who cares what my religion is ? If i am a christian, why would I argue with someone over how normal and morally acceptable it is to be homosexual? why would i accept evolution if i were christian? lol, please read my posts before assuming im christian.
And please stop talking about me, I am not that important. this is really annoying Monk.
I know you dont see my posts. I give you your space. But we have interest in same sort of threads. So some time I have to quote you in order to continue discussion.
I hope you dont mind too much.
I think it just the assuming that she is something when she is not is the thing. when someone says they are a particular thing better to take their word than assume we know more about their life. Reading her comments i don't see anywhere where she has said she is Christian. I don't fully understand the logic of converting from being Muslim to Christian either? what does one gain? If she says she is a secular humanist and nt into any other religion maybe it should be accepted.
If someone was a Christian wouldn't they be trying to show how their religion is better or to proslytise? Nowhere have i seen Bella try to say that. Clearly she mentioned her beliefs are secular humanism which is not christianity.
Aur main she hoon and maine kuch nahi karaya aap se. i was just clarifying.
I think it just the assuming that she is something when she is not is the thing. when someone says they are a particular thing better to take their word than assume we know more about their life. Reading her comments i don't see anywhere where she has said she is Christian. I don't fully understand the logic of converting from being Muslim to Christian either? what does one gain? If she says she is a secular humanist and nt into any other religion maybe it should be accepted.
dude she does not want to be talked to or about. Stop please.
dude she does not want to be talked to or about. Stop please.
No she does not want you to misrepresent her. If I say something to clarify her point and she does not like it she will tell me. Or if the mods feel i say something out of order then I will stop. Think of it this way. I know you're a decent guy so you'll understand. If someone looked at your username and thought you were a Catholic or Buddhist celibate monk who lives secluded and you kept on clarifying to them that you are actually Muslim..but they don't believe you. I'm sure it would frustrate you. So by labelling her as a Christian when she clearly says she is not and there is no evidence to suggest that would logically also frustrate her. So please Monk ji stop please.
I think you understand and will keep this in mind next time..and i don't want to further derail this topic so i will stop there.
I just looked over the last few pages and bella’s comments but I did not notice any Islam bashing. Neither did I notice the word Islam. This topic is in the science and nature section and it is about loopholes in religion not a specific religion. So i don’t understand why you are bringing it back to that topic. It’s like you have eternally labelled someone from your perceptions of a person from one thread..which is now closed and everyone has moved on.
Look at how Psyah bhai interacts and is positive in talking to those who believe differently. Redvelvet also explains her points logically and is optimistic.
I think you were wrong. She did not divert any discussion, neither did she mention Christianity or Islam. By labelling someone you’re pushing them towards becoming a self fulfilling prophecy of that. Like you expect that to happen. Why not be positive? I don’t think someone who is a basher of any religion would notice any positives. Actually i have also made the mistake of assuming as well. Bella could very well believe in God and be a secular humanist. the 2 are not mutually exclusive. She can have deistic beliefs without belonging to any religion.
I posted this before and i’ll post it again. If you want her to mention positives make a thread about it and allow a platform for that. My last off topic comment.
Also what is interesting is the word “basher.” Where i am from if someone is a “basher” they are known to enthusiastically promote whatever subject they are “bashing.” So a bible basher is someone who is an evangelical who enthusiastically promotes and tries to convince others of their truth. Look at the meaning below. Bible-basher noun - definition in the British English Dictionary & Thesaurus - Cambridge Dictionaries Online
You too could make some good points if you don’t label people once you have formed an image in your mind.
I think that organized religion tries to train our thought process by giving examples. Like the Islamic belief that Allah loves us 70 (not 60 from what I hear) than a mother loves a child. Just like Phil mentioned, how can one measure love so what the statement means is that Allah's love is way beyond even the immeasurable. Having said that, I also wonder then, that why would Allah punish the one he loves to that extent in the fires of hell. Again, the representation of punishment is to instill fear in us...and on the other hand, we are told that Allah is so merciful that he can forgive ANY sin except "shirk" which means association of other gods with his being. So that leads me to the other question that MangoMan had...that why would Allah care if we worshipped him? Again, all that is meant for us as a guideline to lead somewhat pious lives in the path of Allah so we can eventually go to jannah or lead reasonably stable lives in this duniya.
I think that the loopholes come from the interpretations we learn from for there are many and some are utterly confusing and questionable. A lot of what we learn in religion is common sense... don't steal, don't lie, pay back your debt, be accountable, be kind... but Islam is divided into 2 areas: Huqooq ul Ibad and Huqooq Allah, the first being the rules of dealing with people or people's rights, and the second meaning the rights of Allah. The Huqooq Ibad are pretty much common sense and similar in every religion. The Huqooq Allah are specific to Islam...such as fasting in Ramadhan, Hajj...etc. Most of the stuff is self explanatory but if you like to think and analyze, then surely you'll find tons of loopholes.
Look at how Psyah bhai interacts and is positive in talking to those who believe differently. Redvelvet also explains her points logically and is optimistic.
I think so too.
It takes a strong person to admit that. All of us have those moments where we get it wrong. I do like some of your entertaining posts. Let's bury the past of that thread and start fresh.
@Niksik, I noticed you had capitalized the first letter of the muslim god. While representing other Gods with lower case g. Would capitalizing the g in other Gods be the unforgivable shirk sin you referred to?
It takes a strong person to admit that. All of us have those moments where we get it wrong. I do like some of your entertaining posts. Let's bury the past of that thread and start fresh.
At the risk of taking away Monk's street cred, he is a gentleman. Hard to understand. But a gentleman nonetheless.
Seriously though his posts are more than entertaining. When he chooses to his posts are deep.
Niksik i agree with your points. Do you think fear of punishment is necessary for someone to follow a path though? Isn’t love of Allah(swt) enough? I think of the female Sufi Rabia Basri and how she was motivated by love alone rather than fear. Sometimes i find today that some people pray in order to obtain material things, or a job or for their studies rather than praying because for love of Allah(swt). Sufi Noor - Rabia Basri ki Dua - Urdu Version - YouTube
Sometimes i wonder whether heaven and hell are actually completely physical or whether they are states of mind.
Re last sentence , very interesting. There is a school of thought that the Mahabharata didn't actually happen. It is simply the good vs evil that plays out within each individual. Though personally I would reverse the roles in the epic.
Similarly the elusive god we search for doesn't exist as an entity. It is the Atman. The Self.
Re last sentence , very interesting. There is a school of thought that the Mahabharata didn't actually happen. It is simply the good vs evil that plays out within each individual. Though personally I would reverse the roles in the epic.
Similarly the elusive god we search for doesn't exist as an entity. It is the Atman. The Self.
Interesting. So it was like a play with people playing different roles and giving an overall message. What would you reverse? I like the philosophy behind religions. It is like the good and evil or the good/shaitan within us all. I like the spiritual message behind many Sufi sayings and poems. Also i like the part in the gita where it says why do you worry, you weren't born with anything and you will leave without anything. All the emotions-sadness, happiness, grief, anger were obtained on earth.Then why is there so much tension,stress about losing or gaining things? It's all transient anyway. Rather than dwell or drown in the emotions it's better to personally observe those feelings and control the behaviour resulting from it. In a way it's a bit like CBT. The fruit of one's actions is not completely in our hands..all we can do is diligently do our work and hope those other factors (like fortune, luck etc) controlled by a higher power work in our favour.
How do we know what he wants? “And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me” (The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation). So if Quran is his book and Quran says he wants us to worship him than I assume he does want us to worship him.
We are not speaking on God’s behalf. We are trying to make sense of the things that people say on God’s behalf.
If your love for your mom and dad is real, then why do you you love others too? Why do we have so many different forms of love. ? Why we cant see it and test it like we can test gravity
Love and truth are two different things. With love, people have options. They can chose who they love. With truth, you don't have options. Its obvious. Whether I love or hate gravity, when I jump, I will fall back to the ground. If religion was true, it would not be a matter of choice. Whether people liked it or not, they would have come to the same conclusion.