London Bombings (merged threads)

Hangout GupShup Cafe
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Re: Hasib...Why did you do it???

fayz, dont forget your unarmed wife and kids (see Iraq and Afghanistan) were brutally assaulted by this third person. Maybe your arse is in the hands of this third person and you like bending over and opening wide, but for the rest of us, it is quite clear that if the west does not stop meddling in the affairs of the muslim countries and does not stop supporting Israel blindly, and does not stop killing inncoent muslims every day in the name of sham democracy/freddom... there will be consequences...

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Re: Hasib...Why did you do it???

Sure, if this kind of retaliation can give you results then rape every woman and molest every child. You call this strategy..well good luck!

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Re: Hasib...Why did you do it???

^Just as the west is doing right now...remember abu gharib...the difference is...they raped men there...homos...

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Re: Hasib…Why did you do it???

Words of wisdom. :k:

Many Khaleeji Arabs left their riches to come fight for Afghanistan against the soviets and later settled amongst and assimilated into Afghanistani and Pakistani peoples and many of these and Afghan Mujahideen laid down their lives for the cause of Kashmir and Pakistan only to be betrayed by Pakistan.

If you’re talking about the Arab goverments then yes they’ll look towards their own benefit and side with the better i.e. India because they are just as Muslim as our goverment which would give arse just so that it can acknowledge Israel…

Jury duty
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‘Ordinary’ lives of bomb suspects

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4678837.stm

Three young men from West Yorkshire were killed in last Thursday’s bomb blasts in London.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41298000/jpg/_41298769_colwyn_afp203body.jpg Police cordoned off several streets in Leeds on Tuesday

Initially they would have been treated as victims. Now, they are suspected perpetrators of the UK’s first suicide bomb attack.

Personal details suggest they lived typically low-key, suburban, “ordinary” lives.

Shehzad Tanweer, 22, was born in Bradford but lived most of his life in the Beeston area of Leeds.

He was a sports science graduate whose only obsession, according to friends, was cricket.

In 2004, he was arrested for disorderly conduct and cautioned.

His father, of Pakistani origin, owns a fish and chip shop near their home on Colwyn Road.

His uncle, Bashir Ahmed, 65, said the family was “shattered” by the revelation that he appeared to have been involved.

**“He was proud to be British,” he said. "He had everything to live for. His parents were loving and supportive. **

“He was a very kind and calm person. He was respected by everyone.”

Neighbours described the graduate, who studied at Leeds Metropolitan University, as a “good Muslim”. Others said he was a “nice lad” who could “get on with anyone”.

‘Tearaway’

One friend said they played sport together only last week. “He’s the type of guy who would condemn things like that,” the friend said.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/start_quote_rb.gif We all knew them but I wouldn’t say I knew them well. They were just a very nice family http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/end_quote_rb.gif

Neighbour of Hasib Hussain

Yet, for all the tributes, it appears Shehzad Tanweer detonated a bomb on a Circle Line train between Aldgate and Liverpool Street stations which killed seven people, including himself, and injured over 100 more.

Living barely half a mile from Colwyn Road, teenager Hasib Hussain similarly had given friends and family little cause for concern.

The 18-year-old, reportedly a good friend of Shehzad Tanweer, is believed to have been a “tearaway” during his early teens before turning very religious about two years ago.

In 2004 he too was arrested and cautioned, for shoplifting.

Neighbours said he had lived all his life in Colonso Mount in the Holbeck area of Leeds. One neighbour described the family as “very nice people”.

He said: “We all knew them but I wouldn’t say I knew them well. They were just a very nice family.”

Ripped apart

Hasib Hussain had told his family he was going on a trip to London to visit friends.

But when he failed to return on Thursday, his parents reported him as missing to police.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/start_quote_rb.gif They seemed a right quiet couple http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/end_quote_rb.gif

Neighbour of Mohammed Sidique Khan

It appears he had in fact boarded the No 30 bus in London on Thursday armed with enough explosives to rip the double-decker apart, killing 13.

His driving licence and cash cards were found in the mangled wreckage of the bus.

Mohammed Sidique Khan, the third bombing suspect, lived in Dewsbury, a few miles south of Leeds.

He is believed to have been married with an eight-month-old daughter.

The 30-year-old had lived in Beeston but moved to Lees Holm in Dewsbury about five months ago.

Neighbours said he worked with disabled children and his wife was involved with education.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41298000/jpg/_41298847_birthcert2_203.jpg Shehzad Tanweer was born in Bradford and brought up in Leeds

One neighbour said she had seen the pair just a few days before the bombings. “They seemed a right quiet couple,” she said.

Another neighbour said:** “I never knew he had a religious background. I go to the local mosque and have never seen him there**.”

Documents belonging to Mohammed Sidique Khan were found in the debris of the Edgware Road blast, where seven people are so far confirmed dead. Police are still searching for clues as to the identity of a fourth man, suspected of killing at least 21 people and injuring hundreds more on a Piccadilly Line train near Kings Cross station.

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Re: ‘Ordinary’ lives of bomb suspects

Doesn’t sound “very religious” to me.

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Re: 'Ordinary' lives of bomb suspects

^
I were gonnu say.

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Re: ‘Ordinary’ lives of bomb suspects

What is this…like the 5th thread opened on the same topic?! :bummer:

but atleast icono’s giving us links, yh

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Re: Hasib…Why did you do it???

R U nuts? who’s yor bro? Indians or Arabs? Arabs treat you worse than chaprasis

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Re: Hasib…Why did you do it???

Ahmadjee on one hand you are saying that the influence of war isn’t impacting enough, and on the other, you are basing your logic on the naivety of the mislead youth..what is it exactly..?

This was a planned attack and to a greater extent showcast of the gravity of destruction. You may argue all you want that why didn’t they think about the innocent civilians, or least had recognized the fact that likely muslims or pakistanis would also die in this attack. Well, why should they when one is giving his own life ? More importantly, the number of people or who would be killed is completely insignificant in this equation. It may sound callous and brutal, but to the bombers, only one thing meant the most, to mirror the same kind of annhilation on the streets of london as it is felt by the muslims around the world, and in iraq on daily basis and that’s it!!

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Re: Hasib...Why did you do it???

I think there was something out of ordinary happening in these young people's lives. Something that may not be so apparent to others but had changed them deeply the way they viewed their lives. It was not Iraq war or anything of that nature. Sometimes you only need an excuse to go over the edge. That's exactly why fanatical and radical ideas about beliefs or idealogies are dangerous. They can tip someone off the edge because of their extraordinary power of context. People who are at the stage of being "tip-able" only need a conviction that's beyond their power of reasoning or negation to go overboard. Religion, nationality, ethnicity, race all that are such ideas that are not controllable by reasoing but are embedded more deeply in terms of how a person is and can convince someone with troubled view of his life easily.

Why is it that millions of Muslims accross the globe are not on up and arms because of Iraq war but only few handful people have an agenda against the West? There is again a distinction. Few handfuls sitting at the top of such "organization" vs likes of youth in London bombing, young and brought up in the West. They both have different powers of conviction.

The nature of these incidents in not much different than an individual killing his whole family going overboard that we read in newspapers every now and then. In layman's word it's called wackiness.

What I find more tragic are the people who insist that it's a "logical" (not justifiable) cause and effect mechanism because Iraq war or other such events. I think the reason they insist as such is because deep down they do want America to be punished or "learn a lesson" (which is a natural impulse since most of the people don't go about tying bombs around their bodies to blow civilians up but at the same time are enraged due to atrocitious US foreighn policies and advancements so it's an understandable vent at human level). But then why I call it tragic? It's tragic because it goes towards logical justification of cause and effect dynamic of war and reaction, which may be a tipping factor on the onset but I do not think these young men commited suicide bombing out of sympathies for Iraqi people or Muslims in general. I can understand a young man doing that whose whole family was carnaged in war but not someone living distantly and brought up in an open society. So let's not justify that by calling it sympathy for the Muslims 'cause it's definitely not.

This is more like the case of that American white Jihadi who was later caught in Afghanistan during Afghanistan war.

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Re: Hasib…Why did you do it???

Now what’s this :

Tanweer, from Leeds, spent time at Markaz-e-Dawa, a notorious religious school in north Pakistan. Fellow bombers Mohammad Sidique Khan, 30, and Hasib Hussain, 18, are also thought to have visited religious schools in Pakistan.Aldgate bomber Tanweer paid his visit during a three-month stay ending in February.Pakistani authorities have quizzed his father’s relatives in Faisalabad to try to trace his movements.Bomber Hussain has also been to Pakistan in the last year. It is not known if he met Tanweer.

A file on their movements will be passed to London and is seen as important in the hunt for any other militants planning possible suicide bomb attacks in Britain.Tanweer arrived in Pakistan last December and stayed in Lahore, a hotbed of Islamic fundamentalism.He went to Markaz-e-Dawa, the religious school, or madrassa, co-founded by al-Qaeda leader bin Laden and built on a 190-acre site at Muridke, 30 miles from Lahore.It contains a mosque, an iron foundry, a garment factory, a woodworking centre, three residences for recruits, and 30 schools. It is also said to house a computer centre.

It turns out religious fanatics and preaches a message of hate against the West. Bin Laden had a house there until he went on the run in the early 1990s.Intelligence experts believe in addition to teaching the Koran, the school runs a 21-day course covering assassinations and bombs.Major General Afsir Karim, writing in the Asian Journal on International Terrorism, said of Markaz-e-Dawa: “Thousands of people assemble there during recruitment rallies. The importance of jihad is drummed in and emotional speeches and rhetoric move people to tears and frenzied chanting.” He alleges some students get specialised instruction in sabotage.It is reported in Pakistan that most of the world’s terrorist leaders visit the school. Among those to stay was Ramzi Yousef who bombed the World Trade Center in 1993.

Guards blocked the entrance road yesterday and turned away all strangers.Tanweer also visited Jamia Manzoorul Islamia, a madrassa in Lahore. It was also heavily-guarded yesterday. Bearded men carrying AK-47s checked every person entering the school’s mosque. One said 1,200 students studied religion at the school. A nearby shopkeeper said dozens were “foreigners”. A source confirmed: “It appears Tanweer spent some time at Markaz-e-Dawa and at another militant seminary in the city.” It is speculated in Pakistan that he may have fallen into the clutches of Jaish-i-Muhammad, or Army of Muslims, radical Islamists behind dozens of suicide attacks.

It is banned in Pakistan, but sources said yesterday it operates under the cover of a madrassa.The group also runs military training camps in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bosnia and kidnapped British UN worker Annetta Flanigan at gunpoint in Kabul last October.She and two other UN workers were repeatedly threatened with beheading before being released unharmed after 27 days.Pakistan is likely to come under renewed pressure to crack down on seminaries, but such moves are sensitive as previous attempts to curb their activities have sparked huge protests by religious zealots.Meanwhile, an acquaintance of Edgware Road bomber Khan yesterday claimed the former teacher had visited Afghanistan and Pakistan for military-style training.The man, who refused to be identified, told the BBC he regarded Khan as a “fruitcake” who often voiced anger over the effects of Western foreign policy in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan. Unaware of his death, he contacted police last weekend to tell them he believed Khan may be indoctrinating younger people.

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Re: Hasib...Why did you do it???

Abdullah Bhai, have you ever seen the programs where the preacher is preaching about the Promised Land and the crowd of hundreds is humming in the praise as if they have the Holy Ghost in 'em? Do you really think the Holy Ghost is in them? Or is it just the influence of the surroundings? Do they see the Promised Land in front of them or are they mesmerized by the rhythm?

What about the Shias who walk in the streets every Moharum bleeding themselves in groups, mourning Hazrat Imam Hussain? Do you think they feel it more than other Muslims standing by or sitting at home? I don’t think so. They are psyched to be part of the group in showing their mourning & be praised for the wounds they inflict on themselves.

Same is the case of these men. Sympathizing with their deeds or glorifying their efforts without following their footsteps is hypocrisy.

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Re: Hasib…Why did you do it???

Roman: you need to step out of the fantasy world and into reality. In fact you are part of the minority that has either failed to understand the dire consqeunces of unjustified adventurism and based their notion on false altruism as to what the American ideologies truly represent. Every single reasoning, supporting the American war, posted here has been continuously based on the bogus logic that Muslims are causing carnage in the western hemishphere if they have this deepened vendetta and feud against the American values and West as a whole. It does not hold true in the broader sense.

In fact, it’s just the opposite. The radical voices which you are following are no less evil and deceitful. The same voices which have riled up fanatically destructive sense of pride and nationalism in america in order to use its immense potential and might for their own under-lying evil gains and create havoc in the Middle East. What’s happened in London is merely a reaction to it.

The culprit is not the US or the West, it’s actually those in the backrground that seek to cause rift and division by perplexing the actual facts, and masking it so their own broadly deep and hideous objectives can be realized..

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Re: Hasib…Why did you do it???

FG, I think the correct term is “alleged mass murderer”, unless of course you have seen the “damning” proof of his guilt. Also, what do you call an armed person who invades and kills innocent civilians in the name of democracy?. Just curious

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Re: Hasib...Why did you do it???

I think Muslims around the world are in a state of confusion and disarray. Most of us have two questions on our mind:

1- Where did we go wrong?
2- Who did this to us?

After centuries of being one of the prime civilizations in the world, we have become the underdogs. Unconsciously, many of us are thinking where is our God and why His help is not coming. We were only 1300 compared to more than 3000 in previous times and were able to overcome our enemies but it is not happening anymore. Why are the angels not coming to help us anymore? To me answer is in the Quran. There are two Suras:

1- God help those who help themselves.
2- You will only get what you will make efforts for.

Muslims are disillusioned these days that the help of God is automatically available to them just because they are Muslims. At the moment exactly the opposite is true. It seems Gods help is with the non-Muslims.

For those of you who have little knowledge of what is going on in Pakistan, there are two major Islamic ideologies prevalent in Pakistan at the moment. One group thinks that Jihad with the west is the answer because the downfall of Muslims is coming from them. There is another non-violent majority group as well, which says that there is no use of going to Jihad in present times. Because we are not good Muslims ourselves, whenever we will go for Jihad against non-Muslims, we will be utter losers because help of God will not be there. The first Jihad necessary is the Jihad with your own self. Cleanse yourself of all the evils first. I tend to agree with the later.

I think the state of sorry affairs Muslims are in these days is not because of West, it is our own doing. You just have to look at the state of the Muslim countries these days to realize this. I completely disagree that these countries are in such a state because these countries are being controlled by the West. We have to take responsibilities for our own actions and not throw it on the others. We blame the West for supplying arms for fuelling the wars between Muslims. Even if West supplied the arms, we used arms against our own brethren. I cannot comprehend how people can support Saddam or any other dictator for that matter.

Again I completely fail to comprehend the strategies of these suicide bombers from Al-Qaeeda or any where else. They are living in a box with limited knowledge and vision. I fully blame Al-Qaeeda for what happened in Afghanistan and Iraq. In recent times, they have done more harm to the Muslims than anyone else. The recent bombing in London will serve no other purpose than to create more problems for the Muslims around the globe.

The Ottomans realized too late that most wars can be won without raising a sword. It is time we realize that as well.

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Re: Hasib…Why did you do it???

“Oh you who believe! Take not as (your) Bitanah (advisors, consultants, protectors, helpers, friends) those outside your religion (pagans, Jews, Christains, and hypocrites) since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severly. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed we have made plain to you the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses) if you understand.”

Surah Al-Imran, Verse 118.

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Why Pakis

OK,i did say this in another thread but got no comments so i am posting this question again.

Why do Paki Brits have carried out these attacks(if they have)?and the one couple of years ago in Israel?

Why no Palestinian or Iraqi hasn't done this when they r the one in direct conflict with Bush&Blair

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Re: Hasib…Why did you do it???

And this my friends, sums up in two lines why muslims today more than ever need a khilafat.

ahmadjee, before the US of A became what it is today it was not a single entity. It was many different states who made a pact to save each other’s ass in times of trouble. Now i dont know what 13 states existed back then but lets say for example if say someone attacked California, the people of all other states will be bound to relaliate, and hence they all join forces to combat the attacker.

Similarly when a muslim is wronged or harassed, it is only normal for another muslim (even if hes at the other end of the globe) to feel the pain. If you can’t feel the pain for those innocent civilians who are being openly savaged in front of the whole world then you really need to check your heart. The reason why we ‘modern and liberal’ muslims driving our SUV’s don’t feel responsible for other people’s pain is because we are divided and there is no sense of cohesion. We don’t give a rats ass about anybody else’s sufferings. And those of us who do give a rats ass unfortunately are using the very wrong means to retaliate.

Abdullah K is not justifying the suicide bombings. They were wrong and if those guys really did blow up the bombs, they will be held as murderers in the court of Allah. However it often helps to view motives behind such acts. Theres a human side to every murderer and you have to understand where theyre coming from. If its a cause worth killing yourself for, theres gotta be some substance to it.

I agree 100% on the fact that this woulda never happened if the UK had not been involved in the invasion of Iraq. It is unfortunate that it had to come to this. May Allah have mercy on us all.

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Re: Why Pakis

please dont use the word paki, its offensive to quite a few people especially british pakistani's

Well these british suicide bombers obviously regard the palestinian/irqi problems as their own since all muslims are one big family and maybe thats why they took the decision to carry out suicide bombings.