Re: Why Pakis
Ya when it come comes to sucide bombings or going against west only then they consider all muslims as one big family...
Re: Why Pakis
Maybe it has something to do with us Pakis being the majority Muslim group in this country?
To Muslims temporal identities such as nationality are irrelevant, we believe that the Muslim Community is similar to a body, when one limb is in pain the whole body is restless.
This sentiment of brotherhood is abused in some people to recruit them as terrorists, cause for concern about the Muslim Community around the world is genuine but this isn’t the way to go about setting things right.
There is a similar example in Christianity [difference is today there’s a genuine reason why Muslims take up terrorism (I don't mean to justify it) unlike the Christians of then]. A mad man belonging to a deviant ‘Islamic’ cult once ruled the holy city of Jerusalem and he destroyed the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, this gave the European Christians and their clergy namely Pope Urban II an excuse to paint all Muslims as demons (old habits seem to die hard don’t they?) and happily ignoring the fact that Hakim’s successor actually had the church rebuilt and services and mass were back to normal, this Pope dude rallied the Christian countries against the Muslim World, so out they came from their dark miserable stone cold damp castles and off they went on their holy crusade (Jihad) against Muslims (who were at the time living in sunny warm cities in buildings of luxury and grandeur), the Christians didn’t have no rules of justice to guide them (unlike Muslims who must not harm non-combatants, kill animals & plants or desecrate non-Islamic sacred places) , the Christians were like barbaric animals when they entered the sacred city of Jerusalem, they killed anyone they got their hands on men, women, children, Muslim and Christian alike, they even went into churches and murdered the local Christians during worship, according to them even these were just foreigners.
We Muslims on the other hand can’t stoop to that level, we all know when there is injustice and cruelty being done even against a Kaafir we have been taught to say “Musalman ka dil hai…” “We’re Muslim, a Muslim heart can’t bare something so heinous” and today when we look around us it's some Muslims who've stooped so low..
Why “‘Islamic’ Terrorists” ?
Why do they have to focus on that one thing? From what we know, the 4 suicide bombers were all colored (3 Pakistanis, 1 Jamaican). Why don’t the news reports say that it was “colored terrorists” that were responsible? If a Goraa had done something to kill innocent lives, the media wouldn’t really emphasize the fact that he was a (former) Christian. They’d simply overlook that and move on to the other details of the type of person he was (i.e. any criminal record).
Example: Let’s say all of those suicide bombers just happened to be overweight as well as “Muslims”. People wouldn’t go around saying “the fat extremists”, they’d refer to them as “the Muslim extremists”. When, in fact, a suicide bombing killing innocent people is the farthest thing from the Islamic prespective of Jihaad.
Another Example: The suicide bombers have been identified as young males (ages 18-24, I believe). How come people haven’t labeled them as “Young Male Extremists”, and how come people aren’t threatened by any other young male when walking on the streets? Why are they blaming the Muslims?..as if these people are even a part of Islam, which they are not. They only see the fact that they are Muslims, and continue to emphasize that, until everyone begins to believe that this is what Islam is.
Re: Why "'Islamic' Terrorists" ?
you know the answer so SHHhhhh
Re: Why "'Islamic' Terrorists" ?
The label reflects the cause they are believed to have been used.
The IRA were catholics, but they never tried to use catholiscm as their cause, only irish nationalism, so they were identified as Irish terrorists.
The Tamil Tigers are hindus, but they don't claim to fight for the cause of hinduism, only Tamil nationalism, so they are labelled Tamil terrorists.
The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine is a group of communist arabs who fight for Palestinian nationalism rather than claiming any religious justification, and in their attacks they are referred to as Palestinian terrorists.
The label "Islamic" tend to be applied for Muslims who are not claiming a single nationalistic or political cause, but who are believed or suspected of using primarily religious justifications for their actions.
Re: Hasib…Why did you do it???
You call them the civilized purveyor of freedom and democracy…
Re: Hasib…Why did you do it???
My comment was in response to Goliko’s assumption. He asked the question why Hasib did it. Samaj aayee?
Re: Hasib...Why did you do it???
I think a mistake a lot of liberal/munafiq degenerate muslims and their counterparts in the west make is to look at this conflict through the prism of religion....At its most primordial state these are essentially political conflicts, hence not bound by religious/islamic legitimacy, but sustained through objective-driven necessities....Both sides aim to inflict maximum damage on the other through whatever means available to them.....and since muslims are profoundly inadequate in the tools of modern warfare and dont have the luxury to indiscrminately and efficiently pulverize their sworn enemies from the safety of 30K feet, they have no choice but to resort to low-intensity assymetrical techniques.....
Re: Why "'Islamic' Terrorists" ?
^ Where's the evidence of their justification? All we know is that they let off bombs on public transportation. They gave no specific reason why.
Re: Why "'Islamic' Terrorists" ?
Ivelost my kiwi and am now loosing will again.
WHERE ARE YOU CHOTAI
Re: Why “‘Islamic’ Terrorists” ?
lets not get into the technicalities of it. Most of the muslims out there need to get out of denial and no i am not talking about the river in egypt 
Re: Why "'Islamic' Terrorists" ?
can you stop stalking me? Thanks.
Re: Why "'Islamic' Terrorists" ?
hiccy and gammu, get a room.
Pink Panther, its because they themselves use the justification that what they are doing is Islamic and for the Cause of God, and that its jihaad.
Right now, the London Bombers are SUSPECTED to be terrorists that use Islam as justification, but the investigation is still going on.
Now if you want to ask why they're suspected, its because the actions follow a pattern that is seen by other terrorists using Islam as justification.
"Islamic terrorists" is a misnomer, because they're not Islamic (adjective describing terrorism). They're USING Islam. But the media wont give up on that term, because it takes a lot longer to say "Terrorist that misuses Islam as an excuse".
Re: Why “‘Islamic’ Terrorists” ?
I dont like used goods. Thanks.
Re: Why “‘Islamic’ Terrorists” ?
PCG - yea true, and i wouldn’t be surprised that they find terrorist groups out there that are linked to this, and use jihaad as an exscuse.
hiccup - kiwi? 
have you been talking to queer lately? 
Re: Hasib...Why did you do it???
Outy, insurgents have probably killed more people in Iraq than America but I don't see no mujahid heading toward baghdad stopping the insurgents or someone like yourself condemning them as strongly as you do America on the net.
It's gullible to think that there is a sense of unification among Muslims at any level. Muslim like to believe they are being crushed by systematic aggression by America. This has become part of their psychology. They need a scapegoat for their own incapacities.
Three young kids who won't know what 'Islam' is if it bit them on the ass out to take revenge for their bratheren Muslims' out of helplessness and frustration???? gimme a break.
Re: Hasib...Why did you do it???
I remember reading Insha's book, in which he had said something like.. "Khood sey kaam karwana bahut asaan hai, lekin kisi aur sey kaam karwana bahut mushkil. Bilkul aisa hi jaisay khoob ko marna bahut asaan hai lekin kissi aur ko marwana bahut mushkil. Mamooli Gernal(?) aur sipahi mein bus yehi faraq hai"
this guy was obviously brain-washed, rather than asking why he did what he did, we should be asking who can brainwash someone to kill themselves.. killing others is very easy but killing urself is harder!
In my opinion, we Muslims are afraid .. afraid to be a minority.. and that is causing some real problems.
May Allah(SWT) guide us all and help us in helping those who are frustrated.
Re: Hasib…Why did you do it???
The lone true conservative voice in America…In complete contrast to the neo-conservative facist christian zionist who hold a foreign entity’s interes more paramount then their own country’s…
Why Are They Killing Us
By Patrick J. Buchanan
© 2005 Creators Syndicate Inc.
Who carried out the London massacre, we do not know. But, as to why they did it, we are already quarreling.
President Bush says that the terrorists are attacking our civilization. At Fort Bragg, N.C., he explained again why we are fighting in Iraq, two years after we overthrew Saddam Hussein. “Iraq is the latest battlefield in this war,” he said, in “a global war on terror.”
“Many terrorists who kill … on the streets of Baghdad are followers of the same murderous ideology that took the lives of citizens in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania. There is only one course of action against them: to defeat them abroad before they attack us at home.”
Bush was echoed by Sen. John McCain. Those terrorists in Iraq, McCain told Larry King, “are the same guys who would be in New York if we don’t win.” We fight the terrorists over there so we do not have to fight them over here.
But is this true?
Few Americans have given more thought to the motivation of suicide-bombers than Robert Pape, author of “Dying to Win: The Logic of Suicide Terrorism.” His book is drawn from an immense database on every suicide-bomb attack from 1980 to early 2004. Conclusion: The claim that 9-11 and the suicide-bombings in Iraq are done to advance some jihad by “Islamofascists” against the West is not only unsubstantiated, it is hollow.
“Islamic fundamentalism is not as closely associated with suicide terrorism as many people think,” Pape tells the American Conservative in its July 18 issue. Indeed, the world’s leader in suicide terror was the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka. This secular Marxist group “invented the famous suicide vest for their suicide assassination of Rajiv Ghandi in May 1991. The Palestinians got the idea of the vest from the Tamil Tigers.”
But if the aim of suicide bombers is not to advance Islamism in a war of civilizations, what is its purpose? Pape’s conclusion:
[S]uicide-terrorist attacks are not so much driven by religion as by a clear strategic objective: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland. From Lebanon to Sri Lanka to Chechnya to Kashmir to the West Bank, every major suicide terrorist campaign – over 95 percent of all incidents – has had as its central objective to compel a democratic state to withdraw.
The 9-11 terrorists were over here because we were over there. They are not trying to convert us. They are killing us to drive us out of their countries.
Before the U.S. invasion, says Pape, “Iraq never had a suicide attack in its history. Since our invasion, suicide terrorism has been escalating rapidly, with 20 attacks in 2003, 48 in 2004 and over 50 in just the first five months of 2005. Every year since the U.S. invasion, suicide terrorism has doubled … Far from making us safer against terrorism, the operation in Iraq has stimulated suicide terrorists and has given suicide terrorism a new lease on life.”
Pape is saying that President Bush has got it backward: The Iraq war is not eradicating terrorism, it is creating terrorists.
The good news? “The history of the last 20 years” shows that once the troops of the occupying democracies “withdraw from the homeland of the terrorists, they often stop – and stop on a dime.”
Between 1982 and 1986, there were 41 suicide-bomb attacks on U.S., French, and Israeli targets in Lebanon. When U.S. and French troops withdrew and Israel pulled back to a six-mile buffer zone, suicide-bombings virtually ceased. When the Israelis left Lebanon, the Lebanese suicide-bombers did not follow them to Tel Aviv.
“Since suicide terrorism is mainly a response to foreign occupation and not Islamic fundamentalism,” says Pape, “the use of heavy military force to transform Muslim societies … is only likely to increase the number of suicide terrorists coming at us.”
What Pape is saying is that the neocons’ “World War IV” – our invading Islamic countries to overthrow regimes and convert them into democracies – is suicidal, like stomping on an anthill so as not to be bitten by ants. It is the presence of U.S. troops in Islamic lands that is the progenitor of suicide terrorism.
Bush’s cure for terrorism is a cause of the epidemic. The doctor is spreading the disease. The longer we stay in Iraq, the greater the number of suicide attacks we can expect. The sooner we get our troops out, the sooner terrorism over there and over here will end. So Pape says the data proves. This is the precise opposite of what George Bush argues and believes.
How would we defend our vital interests in the Gulf?
Answers Pape: As we did in the 1970s and 1980s. By getting our troops out, removing the cause of suicide-terror, leaving behind stocked bases and putting U.S. carrier and air forces over the horizon to ensure the Gulf oil flows. But unless and until American troops are withdrawn from the Middle East, the suicide attacks continue.
Re: Hasib...Why did you do it???
^ It seems like I may have to buy this book......
Re: Hasib...Why did you do it???
right now all i have on my mind is how easy it would be for someone to frame ANYONE..
think about it.
Most Pakistanis visit Pakistan every year or two
Most do visit a mosque during their stay
Some may even visit some religious institutions
some may go to some ijtimah
Somoene somewhere DOES know someone else who may be going to a more notorious institution.. hence a link
Almost all condemn the atrocities committed by perpetual war.. most if not all are unhappy about Muslim countries being the target of violene.
Most if not all have expressed these feelings to someone in private or on a public forum.
NOW tomorrow.. if you are a Muslim/Pakstani and your name suggests as much. you could just vanish and your remains discovered in a bomb blast.. you have NO WAY to prove you weren't a perpetrator but just a casualty.. The tiniest of detail in your life could be put under a microscope to paint you a terrorist..
Just imagine how easy it is!!!