McPendo, how religious or not someone is and whether or not they will expect you to follow suit is hardly random. Religiosity or lack thereof is an issue many people feel rather strongly about and are unlikely to compromise on after marriage (and rightly so as religion is quite personal). This will affect various facets of your day to day life and must be considered before "giving it try."
That said, I think the crux of the OP's problem is that she doesn't seem to know what she wants really. If the gentleman is more liberal and not as religious and open to things such as dating, then he is a terribly immoral creature not worthy of marriage. However, if he is more conservative and on the religious side, he is narrow-minded maulvi not worthy of marriage. The same indecisive pattern is evident when discussing other qualities as well.
McPendo, how religious or not someone is and whether or not they will expect you to follow suit is hardly random. Religiosity or lack thereof is an issue many people feel rather strongly about and are unlikely to compromise on after marriage (and rightly so as religion is quite personal). This will affect various facets of your day to day life and must be considered before "giving it try."
That said, I think the crux of the OP's problem is that she doesn't seem to know what she wants really. If the gentleman is more liberal and not as religious and open to things such as dating, then he is a terribly immoral creature not worthy of marriage. However, if he is more conservative and on the religious side, he is narrow-minded maulvi not worthy of marriage. The same pattern can also be seen when discussing other characteristics as well. It's either one or the other, and she can't seem to see the bigger picture.
She's a muslim she's expected to follow certain Islamic moral Values. I am a muslim myself I wouldn't want my wife wearing skirts and partying and drinking every weekend. If she has a problem with that then she has a problem in general. If she cannot follow that then perhaps she should marry a Gora (Now I'm not talking about PCG). I am a very opened minded person myself but you gota draw a line somewhere being a Pakistani Muslim.
If OP's choice is strictly muslim and he tells her not to do certain things and asks her to wear Burqa and wear gloves then that's pushing it. But I agree with you, PCG doesn't know what she wants. That's why I said to give someone a try who knows she might like him.
She's a muslim she's expected to follow certain Islamic moral Values.
I agree with you that being Muslim, one is expected to observe certain values. However, different people interpret those values a bit differently. You're not comfortable with your wife wearing skirts of any kind. Someone else may not be comfortable with their wife wearing shorter skirts but may be fine with them wearing looser, ankle length maxi skirts. Those are the types of differences I am talking about. I was not referring to extreme differences such as whether or not some is alright with going out partying and getting drunk 4 nights a week.
I agree with you that being Muslim, one is expected to observe certain values. However, different people interpret those values a bit differently. You're not comfortable with your wife wearing skirts of any kind. Someone else may not be comfortable with their wife wearing shorter skirts but may be fine with them wearing looser, ankle length maxi skirts. Those are the types of differences I am talking about. I was not referring to extreme differences such as whether or not some is alright with going out partying and getting drunk 4 nights a week.
Maxi skirts are fine Arab women wear that all the time. As long as she covers herself. What PCG is looking for is herself, she basically want someone who's a muslim who has same moral values as herself. She shouldn't then go and search for extreme end of the spectrum she should find someone within her social circle who's more open to westernized stuff etc.
Am sure PCG can speak for herself, but based on her posts, its not that she doesn't know what she wants. She knows for certain what she doesn't want. And when she sees something she doesn't want in a guy, turns him down ( maybe rightly so ).
Putting on knee-length skirts isn't any worse than showing arms for Muslims btw.. we just have an aversion to legs in our culture.. Wearing little cap-sleeves and then pointing fingers at girls wearing skirts for showing their calves is slightly ridiculous..
^It's common-sense.. We were instructed to cover full arms AND full legs.. If we're not covering our arms how can we honestly tell other people off for showing their legs? I've only seen this in desi culture and it makes sense as our style of dress makes showing legs a taboo..
In Arab countries it's not so uncomon for women to wear knee-length or midi skirts (look at Arab airlines' uniforms for a quick easy reference as to what is and isn't acceptable in terms of their culture).. No-one really makes a huge distinction between showing legs and arms the way we do..
My mum once complained about Arab women doing it, saying it didn't look decent.. When I said 'what about wearing a saree and showing your tummy' like half the aunts in my family do she just went quiet.. Shows how subjective ppls ideas on modesty are.. It might be frowned on in our culture but like I said a Muslim woman is meant to cover her arms and legs.. Showing the latter is NOT considered worse than the former so if you're doing one you're really not in any position to be judging the other..
FYI, I get turned down way more often that I turn others down.
Again, want to clarify that the guy in this scenario is not like his extended family. But his parents' bros/sisters and their kids are beard-touting, niqab wearing folks, who only talk religion, know no other topics to discuss, and he isn't allowed to see/talk to any of his girl cousins, so literally, some of his girl cousins he has not talked to since they were 14. So, if literally that girl walked by him one day, he wouldn't know he is related to her.
I just find that odd. I don't know how much of an influence extended family has on a marriage, or furthermore on your future kids such that extended family culture should be a factor in a decision.
I mean I dunno if I want my daughter to know she has second cousins who act/dress like that, I don't want these things to be normalized for her, because they're just extreme.
They don't always have or even want to have that much influence..
Some are happy with those just being their own personal choices..
My ex-sil had two aunts who wore burqa but they were lovely.. Always kind to me and never pushed me to cover more.. I used to just wear tracksuit bottoms when they were over lol, not even salwar khameez and there were no nasty comments or judging.. I liked them.. If they had a more rigid and less-accepting personality obviously that would have been a nightmare to deal with..
The factor to consider is not whether the guy is like his extended family, but how much influence, if any, his extended family has on him. More important than extended family is whether his parents are equally religious and how much influence they have on him. As in, does his parents' approval and/or opinion play a role in the decisions he makes?
If the guy is more independent, there shouldn't be any issues. However, if he is the sort that must consult his parents before making even the most minute of decisions and is heavily influenced by their opinion, it should be rather obvious that disagreements may arise.
If his immediate family is also like that then its reasonable to expect that u will have to keep track of things atleast in front of them to show them respect. As in unkay saamnay shalwar kamiz pehenni hae. Or don't be friendly with ur bils. Only be conversing mostly with the ladies in the family, not be randomly giving ur Worldy suggestions and alternative pov when in the family. Basically u will be expected to restrict ur true personality only to ur hubby and be somebody else in front of everyone else (generally speaking u will have to master this art whether u marry this guy or not, but in this case it will probably be to a higher extent). When meeting relatives u will have to do all that and dress conservatively in front of them too. Now how liberal theyre willing to accept depends on how conservative they are and also how ur potential devrani/jithani have set by precedence.
To most of people it is awkward, but Shariyee parda is like that mehram and na-mehram concept should be clear,
These days our life styles has changed too much to an extent that we cannot imagine how the life of those strict families would be...
but personally i know many educated and sophisticated families , who fulfill shariyee parda, and their ladies are doctors/engineers/professors , with naqaab,
If you call them " close minded family " then better not to marry their son, because they will not change in future, why should they?
infact if you are ready to follow them , then say "Yes" otherwise say"No"
The boy seem " ok" because he doesn't wear Burqaa, apart from burqaa, u will also find ladies as normal , i guess.
Anyway, wedding is a BIG BIG decision, so think 1000 times before you decide
And what's wrong with wanting someone with the same moral values as yourself? I think it's the key to most marriages otherwise there will be clashes, unless the wife is the quiet type who molds into anything.
Maxi skirts are fine Arab women wear that all the time. As long as she covers herself. What PCG is looking for is herself, she basically want someone who's a muslim who has same moral values as herself. She shouldn't then go and search for extreme end of the spectrum she should find someone within her social circle who's more open to westernized stuff etc.
^It's common-sense.. We were instructed to cover full arms AND full legs.. If we're not covering our arms how can we honestly tell other people off for showing their legs? I've only seen this in desi culture and it makes sense as our style of dress makes showing legs a taboo..
In Arab countries it's not so uncomon for women to wear knee-length or midi skirts (look at Arab airlines' uniforms for a quick easy reference as to what is and isn't acceptable in terms of their culture).. No-one really makes a huge distinction between showing legs and arms the way we do..
My mum once complained about Arab women doing it, saying it didn't look decent.. When I said 'what about wearing a saree and showing your tummy' like half the aunts in my family do she just went quiet.. Shows how subjective ppls ideas on modesty are.. It might be frowned on in our culture but like I said a Muslim woman is meant to cover her arms and legs.. Showing the latter is NOT considered worse than the former so if you're doing one you're really not in any position to be judging the other..
Agreed that a muslim woman is meant to cover her arms and legs and hair and everything else properly.
I don't know what is considered more worse, But common sense also says that half sleeves are not the same as (let's say) wearing a tanktop. There are gradations.
It's also a fact that 'uncovering' happens stepwise. Woman who are ok wearing skirts won't worry about (half)naked arms either.
Finally legs are considered more haba haba than arms in all cultures. Not just in our culture.
Ok, you meet a great guy. He seems pretty balanced.
But then you find out his whole extended family, and I mean all of them - both mom and dad's sides - are super conservative, burqa walis with niqabs, and in fact he hasn't talked to any of his lady cousins since they were like 12, because he is their na-mehram, and he also doesn't know what they look like.
Would you marry into such a close minded family, although the guy is ok, (and so you assume the parents will be ok)?
who is the one that is close minded? you just judged a whole family on the basis of their appearance....anyway I think if you think that matter then heck no do not marry into a family you already have such negative strong views about...aint gonna work...
And what's wrong with wanting someone with the same moral values as yourself? I think it's the key to most marriages otherwise there will be clashes, unless the wife is the quiet type who molds into anything.
Well religion specifies which moral values one must have. If you profess to be a Muslim and a Pakistan then you should adhere to certain moral values.
Ok, you meet a great guy. He seems pretty balanced.
But then you find out his whole extended family, and I mean all of them - both mom and dad's sides - are super conservative, burqa walis with niqabs, and in fact he hasn't talked to any of his lady cousins since they were like 12, because he is their na-mehram, and he also doesn't know what they look like.
Would you marry into such a close minded family, although the guy is ok, (and so you assume the parents will be ok)?
I don't see how you eqaute 'burqa walis' and 'niqab wali's with close minded.
That's actually kinda rude.
But if you're worried that his family wouldn't accept you or wouldn't let the guy speak to you...well, would you be able to give him enough credit to stand up for himself?