..the department was considering charges under the Espionage Act,ā¦
ā¦a move which former prosecutors characterised as "difficult" because of First Amendment protections for the pressā¦
US Govt is pursuing charges under Espionage Act and not for hateful speech. Even that might be difficult since the First Amendment protection might protect Assange.
Like I pointed out to The Jinx earlier, people have the right to sue the film maker for making the film if the film hurt their sentiments. The US government does not have an obligation to prosecute the film maker since it was not directed against the govt.
***provided the publishers did not themselves break any laws in acquiring it ā ***Thatās the point! Julian Assange obtained it illegally but the NY Times published and had no hand in obtaining it. That is WHY Assange can get prosecuted but NY Times canāt.
What you say is true. But that is the problem with man made laws. They create problems. Hate speech may not be a US recognised crime, but it is a moral crime. Hate speech is prevented in the work place and schools, I'm sure, within the US. My approach to this discussion is to realise the inconsistency. There are levels of censorship that are in the US media. Speech is not free really. What would be the fate if an organisation set-up in the US campaigning for Islamic Shari'ah to be established in the US? The truth of "freedom" is that the populous are coached to think a certain way ... and 99% of the time that coaching ensures that the people will not think out of the box that was created for them ...
Consider a fruit seller he has all the different types of apples and he sells on the basis that you are free to choose ... If someone comes along and asks for an orange, he will not be able to comply, rather the people who come to his stall will not know about oranges they will be unaware that oranges exist. To them all the fruit in the world are represented by the variety of apples he has in his stall.
Yes hate speech is not a crime - but it should be. The US law makers have got it wrong. It is a law in other Western countries, not that they are necessarily any better. The western ideals have rid people of what they used to hold sacred. No longer are even parents considered sacred property in the US. Cartoons (mind altering) such as the Simpsons make it seem funny to insult parents ... There is no boundary to retaliate ... nothing is sacred anymore - on top of that Muslims will be hesitant to stoop to that low. We cannot go against our faith and insult another person's religion, our religion prevents us from that. So how do we react to being insulted? We can indeed ignore it. We can use it as an opportunity to educate or be even nicer. Some of us can do that ... I don't however blame the ignorant people among us from behaving ignorantly. They are merely reacting in the way they can ... it may be out of their control. It may be a ruse as well ... I dunno. The US aught to be consistent with their policies, or accept that some of their people will become under threat from the root causes of actions of some of their own people.
An organization can very much campaign for Shariah laws but they cannot be arrested or detained. Of course the campaign won't go very far because US law is uniform and pertains to everyone equally. The Jews can campaign for their Halakha law as well but that too won't go very far.
I can't believe how much people like to bash the US. TLK is right. Muslims enjoy the most freedom here as compared to any other nation in the world. We don't have to deal with the banning of minarets, publishing of cartoons mocking our Prophet (p.b.u.h) and being scrutinized for what we wear. Moreover all the aforementioned are **state acts!! **This was just some nobody who already had a criminal record and wanted to cause unrest amongst the Muslims yet people are bashing the US. It's unbelievable. Just shows people of our faith tend to have sheep mentality. Causes that actually require attention and are worthy of protests are ignored and acts that should just be condemned and ignored are given so much attention.
**provided the publishers did not themselves break any laws in acquiring it -- **That's the point! Julian Assange obtained it illegally but the NY Times published and had no hand in obtaining it. That is WHY Assange can get prosecuted but NY Times can't.
You ignored the legal expert's argument completely.
The point is that no matter how we twist the stuff, the fact remains the same that USA has nothing to do with the movie. If some people in USA are islam haters (like Bill Maher) then there are millions of USA haters sitting in Muslim world too. So the game is two way.
USA can have that movie ban? How? Under which law? Did they ban Passion of Christ when Jews objected to that movie? But even then, I can guarantee you that no public theater will release that movie. Private screenings are going to happen all around the world and there is nothing much you and me can do about that.
And no, movie is not a hate crime. Hate crime has two components; Hate and Crime, and under US law, no civil crime happened by producing that movie, so we all need to grow up about that. Hate crime consists of violence. Please read the definition of the phrase before we label this movie as Hate crime.
If anything, its up to Google (Youtube) to remove the movie trailer from their site. So my dear brothers and sisters, please boycott youtube and stop watching bollywood songs and star tv plus dramas on youtube for free. Oh what you said, you cant stop watching that on youtube, because you cant keep yourself away from cheap thrills that thumkay of munni badnam hui gives to you? In that case, dont expect US to help us. Grow up and help yourself and work on yourself.
This YouTube video was not produced by the US government. I hear so much garbage about how horrible the kuffar are in the US and the gora is out to get us and all that...how would you like it if those Muslims got arrested? Burqay wali aurtein....haye allah humaray bachon to tabah kardengay ye shaitan...why don't we arrest them too?
He condemned it, so do we.
You condemn it because he condemns it?
Sorry I don't understand your post about burqay wali aurtain.
The point is that no matter how we twist the stuff, the fact remains the same that USA has nothing to do with the movie. If some people in USA are islam haters (like Bill Maher) then there are millions of USA haters sitting in Muslim world too. So the game is two way.
USA can have that movie ban? How? Under which law? Did they ban Passion of Christ when Jews objected to that movie? But even then, I can guarantee you that no public theater will release that movie. Private screenings are going to happen all around the world and there is nothing much you and me can do about that.
And no, movie is not a hate crime. Hate crime has two components; Hate and Crime, and under US law, no civil crime happened by producing that movie, so we all need to grow up about that. Hate crime consists of violence. Please read the definition of the phrase before we label this movie as Hate crime.
If anything, its up to Google (Youtube) to remove the movie trailer from their site. So my dear brothers and sisters, please boycott youtube and stop watching bollywood songs and star tv plus dramas on youtube for free. Oh what you said, you cant stop watching that on youtube, because you cant keep yourself away from cheap thrills that thumkay of munni badnam hui gives to you? In that case, dont expect US to help us. Grow up and help yourself and work on yourself.
I see Americans as the flag-bearers of "free speech" so why do you guys bother when the muslim world bashes America? It hurts, doesn't it?
You ignored the legal expert's argument completely.
Umm the 'legal expert' is a professor in Sydney and is not an expert in US law. He is a human rights lawyer and he will be as much against arresting Salman Rushdie as he would be arresting Julian Assange. The Center for Constitutional Rights is also a non profit advocacy group that represents Julian Assange so obviously they will speak out against his arrest. The fact of the matter is Assange stole classified documents. I don't know why you can't see the distinction....he stole someone's property...that is a crime.
I'm sure she means we all condemn it and haven't given this movie the time of day beyond that. That is the most appropriate response to such a despicable deed. Give it any more time and you're playing into the hands of the perpetrator.
I see Americans as the flag-bearers of "free speech" so why do you guys bother when the muslim world bashes America? It hurts, doesn't it?
We aren't burning flags and chanting 'death to the Muslim world' so clearly we aren't hurt to that degree. No one ever argued against rebutting hate speech. That is most welcomed. Hate speech needs to be countered through peaceful rebuttals and civilized debates.
It's alright cherry. I get it. I get the whole point of this thread. Americans are free to say the most hateful things about anything and anyone but others aren't. :)
We aren't burning flags and chanting 'death to the Muslim world' so clearly we aren't hurt to that degree. No one ever argued against rebutting hate speech. That is most welcomed. Hate speech needs to be countered through peaceful rebuttals and civilized debates.
So you see the whole Muslim world burning flags and chanting death to America because you saw in this in news? And also, you see yourself separate from the Muslim world?
You can name and shame a prophet because itās your right but as soon as you criticize a country (Amreeka) for its notorious laws you get labeled as a savage and sheep and what not!
It's alright cherry. I get it. I get the whole point of this thread. Americans are free to say the most hateful things about anything and anyone but others aren't. :)
But that's the thing...you don't get it :) and given the direction this thread is going, you'll never get it and that's perfectly fine.
Others aren't allowed to say hateful things because their own country prohibits them from doing so. They should come to the US and can freely engage in hate speech! Yay!
So you see the whole Muslim world burning flags and chanting death to America because you saw in this in news? And also, you see yourself separate from the Muslim world?
It's called sarcasm. Just because we were responding to the US bashing doesn't mean it hurts us terribly to see the US under attack on an online forum. You're the one who separated us when you claimed why we get hurt when the Muslim world bashes America. We are very much Muslims but it's sad to see that in order to be a good Muslim we have to be blatantly anti-US.
Where did we say it was OK to name and shame our Prophet?!! The movie has been condemned and mocked throughout the media!We are just not insecure as to let some B rated movie affect our love for the Prophet or shake our faith in our religion.
Your argumentative skills are severely lacking. Please argue based on facts and not on the basis of ''lets bash the US sentiments.
It can be argued that the US made people like Bill Maher come to existence. It can be argued that the spin the administration developed to create an al-Qaeda enemy has lent itself to people like these extreme right-wingers to have developed. Just because the US keep the US Muslims sweet it does not mean the Muslims there should necessarily stay silent and not protest to the administration about the rights of all humans. They may treat their citizens well, but they sure donāt care about Islam, in fact the administration fear and even hate Islam. Their actions show it.
Why can we allow ourselves to be divided across the line of US Muslim and non-US Muslim?
Can we seriously say US keep us sweet therefore the US are sweet? Some of us have woken up, and chosen to go back to sleep again.
Thanks but I donāt fancy spewing hatred. And itās great that Americans have the right of free speech but itās a shame to see how they have abused it again and again.
I think it does hurt your feelings otherwise you wouldāve completely ignored all the US bashing. Just like Muslims couldāve ignored the movie. I donāt think criticizing Pakistanās policies makes me anti-Pakistan so I donāt know where did you get this idea from.
My comment was directed at TLKās post but you answered it but itās interesting to see how Americans canāt let others use the free speech. No one here is burning flags or chanting death to America so why the hostility towards their opinions?
Where did we say it was OK to name and shame our Prophet?!! The movie has been condemned and mocked throughout the media!We are just not insecure as to let some B rated movie affect our love for the Prophet or shake our faith in our religion.
Your argumentative skills are severely lacking. Please argue based on facts and not on the basis of ''lets bash the US sentiments.
I'm not necessarily talking about "you" as in you. My conversation is mainly directed at US laws and policies. I have nothing against you. lol
I might be lacking the skills because I'm not much of an arguer/debater. But your lack of understanding towards muslims reaction to the movie is apathetic. You think we feel hurt because we are insecure and weak in our iman? Seriously? You know what? I give up.
