Living in USA

[The_Jinx]

Re: Living in USA

Again, case of selective reading. You quoted part of my question and ignored the rest, which I was expecting.

I will shower you with one more Wiki link

**Freedom of speech - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

**

**

Freedom of speech** is the political right to communicate one’s opinions and ideas. The term freedom of expression is sometimes used synonymously, but includes any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used. In practice, the right to freedom of speech is not absolute in any country and the right is commonly subject to limitations, as with libel, slander, obscenity,[SUP]citation needed][/SUP] sedition (including, for example inciting ethnic hatred), copyright violation, revelation of information that is classified or otherwise restrained under gag agreement, and incitement to commit a crime.

I rest my case.

Let’s agree to disagree.

[psyah]

Re: Living in USA

@The_Jinx

psyah, I will have to disagree with you here. I have lived almost half of my life here and on the contrary, I have to admit that I have actually started thinking more critically than ever.

I have actually found this land to be more of a strainer where I have witnessed people oscilating from one extreme of faith to another. I have seen how nifaq comes right out of the people who otherwise were extremely religious back home and never missed any prayer; and how they changed their path towards destruction. Some of them even went to commit henious crimes such as drinking and fornication.

On the other hand, it had made people more closer to the religion too. Some people realized that their is no safety for them but to stick to the Religion.

Problems with Muslims is that we are people who acts by our emotions rather than the teachings of the Prophet (SAW).

The day Muslims will learn to “Rally” instead of “protest”, the reaction against their dislike will change too

Peace Jinx

I understand that there are exceptions … I know you to be among them … Alhumdulillah, but the response that you have given is not addressing the point that I was trying to make. The point I am making is that of American media and news, the film industry is Dajjalic in its approach - They have taken ideas directly from books such as Animal Farm and Brave New World and are implementing it on a global scale.

There are systematic methods being employed to ensure society graze like cattle - kept happy and productive and to have fights with one another - sports as well … these keep society from asking the government difficult questions.

Education - dumbing down - there are lots of criticisms regarding this
Nationalism - people are taught to love flag with emotional attachment
Films - Americans always win or are the heroes.
Freedom - given to the public within a given framework
Fear - Enough conspiracies are released to keep the people cautious of the administration

Faith is not what they control … they allow it fester in two main forms - radical right or ultra left … this ensures the infighting and alienating of one another.

It is not that everyone falls in to this but the majority are … I’m talking about their own people … not just the minorities. People are generally unable to work out what is hypocritical about the US policies within the US … Few try to make a stand … Look at the slogan: You are either with us or with the terrorists … This is a fallacy … There is always another option. It is possible to be with neither … Few raise this point …

Otherwise, there are ongoing East Coast and West Coast issues, when really the main issue is unfair treatment of both by the government … And the list goes on …

[queen_24]

Re: Living in USA

@Aceones

and something to add to what i said before, and to answer the original question, that is, how is USA responsible for it?

USA is responsible for it as USA projects itself to be responsible of taking down everything happening in every corner of world which goes against her “plans” and dream. USA is responsible because it happened on their land, just like USA said Afghanistan is responsible because osama was hiding there, even he was not even afghan. USA is responsible because this dreaded act of hate was only possible because of their faulty “freedom of speech” mess and their dual face towards the muslim world. yes USA is responsible for not doing enough.

THIS THIS THIS!!!

[queen_24]

Re: Living in USA

@kaka_in_usa

No matter how much you hate US it is still a land of free and hard working men.
There has to be a reason why all the harassed minorities from all over the world (including muslims) want to migrate to US.

Because US apnay mulk ke ilawa kahin sukoon rehne hi nahin deta!! hah!

[The_Player]

Re: Living in USA

@The_Jinx

Again, case of selective reading. You quoted part of my question and ignored the rest, which I was expecting.

I will shower you with one more Wiki link

**Freedom of speech - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

**

I rest my case.

Let’s agree to disagree.

“Commonly subject to limitations” but not always. And as I mentioned in my last post whether free speech is considered “slander” is up to the courts to decide. However, any free speech that may be derogatory to a group/person does not automatically become slander.

If someone considers any speech as slander, the remedy is to go to courts. Burning flags, consulates and killing people is not the answer.

[The_Jinx]

Re: Living in USA

@The_Player

If someone considers any speech as slander, the remedy is to go to courts. Burning flags, consulates and killing people is not the answer.

Find my post(s) where I said burning flags, consulates and killing people is the answer. You are assuming too much mate

Wish you had read all my posts.

and I understand the justification and excuses to not declare something that is a slander, a slander.

[The_Player]

Re: Living in USA

@The_Jinx

Find my post(s) where I said burning flags, consulates and killing people is the answer. You are assuming too much mate

Wish you had read all my posts.

Thats was not directed at you, but was more of a general comment Should have been clear by my use of the word “someone” instead of “you”.

[TLK]

Re: Living in USA

@Ma_Mooli

USA is responsible for a lot worse than a movie. The protests were not just about the movie, that was merely a trigger.

ok dude if you insist.

[cherryontop]

Re: Living in USA

On one end you guys want the US to apologize for the movie. On the other end you guys claim the protests are in response to a much bigger issue. So should the US apologize for the atrocities that have been committed around the world or for the movie??

Secondly, this movie is not a hate crime. A hate crime is when a person is actually hurt due to their race, religion or ethnicity. No one was hurt here. Hate speech is protected by the Constitution. No one has ever gotten arrested for expressing a view no matter how hateful it is. People living in other parts of the world just fail to comprehend this. In fact the second amendment is hurting the US and giving rise to domestic terrorism but since the right to own a gun has been explicitly stated in the Cobstitution, an amendment is required to prevent easy access to guns.

And people need to stop pulling laws out of thin air. Holocaust denial may be a crime in Europe but it’s definitely not a crime in the US. I can be standing at the corner of Times Square distributing pamphlets about Holocaust denial and there is nothing the US can do. And for all you people saying saying anything against blacks is a crime…wrong again! The KKK is still an active organization and just recently the ACLU even represented the KKK coz they were denied the right to put up some sign somewhere. whether you agree with this absolute freedom is besides the point. It’s the law of the land.

I don’t know why people living in the UK are all praise for their country when it is just as much responsible for the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. At least the US was a target of Al Qaeda. The UK had nothing to do with the war yet one push by the US and they went right into Iraq and Afghanistan. Countries all over the world are US puppets and shouldn’t be but such is the world dynamics these days. People just live to jump on the ‘let’s bash the US’ bandwagon and fail to see where their own leaders and people are at fault. Typical victim mentality.

[hareem01]

Re: Living in USA

@cherryontop

On one end you guys want the US to apologize for the movie. On the other end you guys claim the protests are in response to a much bigger issue. So should the US apologize for the atrocities that have been committed around the world or for the movie??

Secondly, this movie is not a hate crime. A hate crime is when a person is actually hurt due to their race, religion or ethnicity. No one was hurt here. Hate speech is protected by the Constitution. No one has ever gotten arrested for expressing a view no matter how hateful it is. People living in other parts of the world just fail to comprehend this. In fact the second amendment is hurting the US and giving rise to domestic terrorism but since the right to own a gun has been explicitly stated in the Cobstitution, an amendment is required to prevent easy access to guns.

And people need to stop pulling laws out of thin air. Holocaust denial may be a crime in Europe but it’s definitely not a crime in the US. I can be standing at the corner of Times Square distributing pamphlets about Holocaust denial and there is nothing the US can do. And for all you people saying saying anything against blacks is a crime…wrong again! The KKK is still an active organization and just recently the ACLU even represented the KKK coz they were denied the right to put up some sign somewhere. whether you agree with this absolute freedom is besides the point. It’s the law of the land.

I don’t know why people living in the UK are all praise for their country when it is just as much responsible for the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. At least the US was a target of Al Qaeda. The UK had nothing to do with the war yet one push by the US and they went right into Iraq and Afghanistan. Countries all over the world are US puppets and shouldn’t be but such is the world dynamics these days. People just live to jump on the ‘let’s bash the US’ bandwagon and fail to see where their own leaders and people are at fault. Typical victim mentality.

So you think we don’t criticize Pakistan? Fail.

[The_Jinx]

Re: Living in USA

@cherryontop

No one has ever gotten arrested for expressing a view no matter how hateful it is.

I smiled at the naiveness in these words. Really?

I have seen people with extreme views and having hint of saying US war against Talibans is unjustifed in the mosque, getting round up by FBI under Patriotic act. Some of them never seen the daylight and are considered “missing” now. Did they not have freedom of speech?

[cherryontop]

Re: Living in USA

Aren’t you in the UK? Why don’t you criticize the UK for being a US puppet and invading every country the US sets its eyes on.

Not directed at you but people on this forum just don’t like to argue based on facts. They love to state their own opinions and prejudices without any facts backing it up and when the other person actually does bring up a fact, their response is downright absurd and hilarious.

[hareem01]

Re: Living in USA

@The_Jinx

I smiled at the naiveness in these words. Really?

I have seen people with extreme views and having hint of saying US war against Talibans is unjustifed in the mosque, getting round up by FBI under Patriotic act. Some of them never seen the daylight and are considered “missing” now. Did they not have freedom of speech?

Not to forget Julian Assange.

[cherryontop]

Re: Living in USA

For heavens sake Julian Assange did not exercise freedom of speech!! He stole classified documents which is a crime. Freedom of speech involves the expression of your own thoughts and opinions!

[hareem01]

Re: Living in USA

@cherryontop

For heavens sake Julian Assange did not exercise freedom of speech!! He stole classified documents which is a crime. Freedom of speech involves the expression of your own thoughts and opinions!

It’s not stealing. It’s journalism.

*The Washington Post reported that the department was considering charges under the Espionage Act, a move which former prosecutors characterised as “difficult” because of First Amendment protections for the press.[SUP][71]](WikiLeaks - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][73]](WikiLeaks - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Several Supreme Court cases have previously established that the American constitution protects the re-publication of illegally gained information provided the publishers did not themselves break any laws in acquiring it.[SUP][74]](WikiLeaks - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Federal prosecutors have also considered prosecuting Assange for trafficking in stolen government property, but since the diplomatic cables are intellectual rather than physical property, that approach also faces hurdles.

*On threats by various governments toward Assange, legal expert Ben Saul argues that founder Julian Assange is the target of a global smear campaign to demonise him as a criminal or as a terrorist, without any legal basis.[SUP][82]](WikiLeaks - Wikipedia)[/SUP] The U.S. (Center for Constitutional Rights - Wikipedia) has issued a statement highlighting its alarm at the “multiple examples of legal overreach and irregularities” in his arrest.[SUP][83]](WikiLeaks - Wikipedia)[/SUP]

[cherryontop]

Re: Living in USA

@The_Jinx

I smiled at the naiveness in these words. Really?

I have seen people with extreme views and having hint of saying US war against Talibans is unjustifed in the mosque, getting round up by FBI under Patriotic act. Some of them never seen the daylight and are considered “missing” now. Did they not have freedom of speech?

Care to enlighten what people have been arrested and are still in prison
for stating anti American views?? I don’t know of any so how do you? Also the Patriot Act was enacted during a time of war and yes freedom and rights were abused but this country was in a state of panic and took whatever steps to ensure their citizens were safe. I don’t agree with the ramifications of the Patriot Act but that Act pertains to war on terror so it’s an entirely different matter.

Jimmy Carter wrote a book about Israel being an apartheid state and it was published and was available throughout the country. Again freedom of speech! there is no bias against it.

[cherryontop]

Re: Living in USA

@hareem01

It’s not stealing. It’s journalism.

Maybe to you it’s journalism but again as per law, a country’s classified documents are its property and stealing them and publishing them is a crime. Just like hacking is a crime, its NOT freedom of expression.

[psyah]

Re: Living in USA

@cherryontop

On one end you guys want the US to apologize for the movie. On the other end you guys claim the protests are in response to a much bigger issue. So should the US apologize for the atrocities that have been committed around the world or for the movie??

Secondly, this movie is not a hate crime. A hate crime is when a person is actually hurt due to their race, religion or ethnicity. No one was hurt here. Hate speech is protected by the Constitution. No one has ever gotten arrested for expressing a view no matter how hateful it is. People living in other parts of the world just fail to comprehend this. In fact the second amendment is hurting the US and giving rise to domestic terrorism but since the right to own a gun has been explicitly stated in the Cobstitution, an amendment is required to prevent easy access to guns.

And people need to stop pulling laws out of thin air. Holocaust denial may be a crime in Europe but it’s definitely not a crime in the US. I can be standing at the corner of Times Square distributing pamphlets about Holocaust denial and there is nothing the US can do. And for all you people saying saying anything against blacks is a crime…wrong again! The KKK is still an active organization and just recently the ACLU even represented the KKK coz they were denied the right to put up some sign somewhere. whether you agree with this absolute freedom is besides the point. It’s the law of the land.

I don’t know why people living in the UK are all praise for their country when it is just as much responsible for the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. At least the US was a target of Al Qaeda. The UK had nothing to do with the war yet one push by the US and they went right into Iraq and Afghanistan. Countries all over the world are US puppets and shouldn’t be but such is the world dynamics these days. People just live to jump on the ‘let’s bash the US’ bandwagon and fail to see where their own leaders and people are at fault. Typical victim mentality.

Peace cherryontop

What you say is true. But that is the problem with man made laws. They create problems. Hate speech may not be a US recognised crime, but it is a moral crime. Hate speech is prevented in the work place and schools, I’m sure, within the US. My approach to this discussion is to realise the inconsistency. There are levels of censorship that are in the US media. Speech is not free really. What would be the fate if an organisation set-up in the US campaigning for Islamic Shari’ah to be established in the US? The truth of “freedom” is that the populous are coached to think a certain way … and 99% of the time that coaching ensures that the people will not think out of the box that was created for them …

Consider a fruit seller he has all the different types of apples and he sells on the basis that you are free to choose … If someone comes along and asks for an orange, he will not be able to comply, rather the people who come to his stall will not know about oranges they will be unaware that oranges exist. To them all the fruit in the world are represented by the variety of apples he has in his stall.

Yes hate speech is not a crime - but it should be. The US law makers have got it wrong. It is a law in other Western countries, not that they are necessarily any better. The western ideals have rid people of what they used to hold sacred. No longer are even parents considered sacred property in the US. Cartoons (mind altering) such as the Simpsons make it seem funny to insult parents … There is no boundary to retaliate … nothing is sacred anymore - on top of that Muslims will be hesitant to stoop to that low. We cannot go against our faith and insult another person’s religion, our religion prevents us from that. So how do we react to being insulted? We can indeed ignore it. We can use it as an opportunity to educate or be even nicer. Some of us can do that … I don’t however blame the ignorant people among us from behaving ignorantly. They are merely reacting in the way they can … it may be out of their control. It may be a ruse as well … I dunno. The US aught to be consistent with their policies, or accept that some of their people will become under threat from the root causes of actions of some of their own people.

[hareem01]

Re: Living in USA

@cherryontop

Maybe to you it’s journalism but again as per law, a country’s classified documents are its property and stealing them and publishing them is a crime. Just like hacking is a crime, its NOT freedom of expression.

copy pasted again for you.

*The Washington Post reported that the department was considering charges under the Espionage Act, a move which former prosecutors characterised as “difficult” because of First Amendment protections for the press.[SUP][71]](WikiLeaks - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][73]](WikiLeaks - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Several Supreme Court cases have previously established that the American constitution protects the re-publication of illegally gained information provided the publishers did not themselves break any laws in acquiring it.[SUP][74]](WikiLeaks - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Federal prosecutors have also considered prosecuting Assange for trafficking in stolen government property, but since the diplomatic cables are intellectual rather than physical property, that approach also faces hurdles.

On threats by various governments toward Assange, legal expert Ben Saul argues that founder Julian Assange is the target of a global smear campaign to demonise him as a criminal or as a terrorist, without any legal basis.[SUP][82]](WikiLeaks - Wikipedia)[/SUP] The U.S. (Center for Constitutional Rights - Wikipedia) has issued a statement highlighting its alarm at the “multiple examples of legal overreach and irregularities” in his arrest.[SUP][83]](WikiLeaks - Wikipedia)[/SUP]*

[Reha]

Re: Living in USA

@hareem01

Most Americans are nice people but there are certain hate groups continuously coming up with hateful material against American Muslims and Islam and that will eventually lead to more hatred. Bill Maher is one of the examples…the stuff he says he wouldn’t be able to say that against Jews or black minorities. My question is why some of you living in America can’t criticise your country for having hypocritical policies? And yes people in east are savages and uneducated but guess what this movie was made by a person living in apparently the most civilised nation.

This YouTube video was not produced by the US government. I hear so much garbage about how horrible the kuffar are in the US and the gora is out to get us and all that…how would you like it if those Muslims got arrested? Burqay wali aurtein…haye allah humaray bachon to tabah kardengay ye shaitan…why don’t we arrest them too?

@hareem01

errr no.

Criticism is one thing but mocking a prophet who’s loved by billions of people of a faith should not be acceptable. I’d say American president and few others who condemned the movie are better people than muslims living in America. At least they had the guts to call a spade a spade and they didn’t just “ignore” it.

He condemned it, so do we.

@Aceones

and something to add to what i said before, and to answer the original question, that is, how is USA responsible for it?

USA is responsible for it as USA projects itself to be responsible of taking down everything happening in every corner of world which goes against her “plans” and dream. USA is responsible because it happened on their land, just like USA said Afghanistan is responsible because osama was hiding there, even he was not even afghan. USA is responsible because this dreaded act of hate was only possible because of their faulty “freedom of speech” mess and their dual face towards the muslim world. yes USA is responsible for not doing enough.

By this theory, US is also responsible for 9/11 and the weakened Islam all over the country, rap music, mini skirts, heart attacks and Alzheimer’s. Anything else?