Living in USA

[psyah]

Re: Living in USA

@Huma

It isn’t at fault here. There’s plenty of nonsense on the internet originating from countries that may or may not practise this law. So neither the country nor the law can be held responsible here.

The authorities and the governments however are at fault when it comes to neglecting right-wing extremism in the name of freedom of speech. Let me quote The Guardian - “Western democracies and their security agencies have focused almost exclusively on only one form of violent extremism. The far right may still pose less of a threat than al-Qaida-inspired groups, say, but our ignorance of this form of extremism is striking.” - Therein lies my tid peer with this law.

If someone was going around preaching radical jihad, no one would just say “Pfftt ignore, let him tell everyone to kill the infidels, he has a right to free speech”. Everyone knows the authorities would crack down on him and his associates (and rightly so). On the opposite end of the spectrum, no one cares to investigate people like Wade Michael who openly talk about mudering jews, blacks, asians, muslims etc, actively attend “hate events” all across the country, are known associates of “incredibly violent” supremacist organizations that despite being known to be violent are well-funded, well-established and no one cares to dismantle them.

Just like Osama was a hero to some loonies, Wade Michael also had plenty of supporters who praised their “brother”: “All I feel is loss and sympathy for a brother that was overwhelmed by pain and frustration. I could [sic] care less though for those injured and wounded other than Wade.” Another warned of future attacks: “There are thousands of other angry White men like Page, the vast majority of them unknown … When will they, like Page, reach their breaking point…?”

So the question, that I asked right after the Wisconsin tragedy and got no response, is that what criteria of a terror suspect do these people not fulfill? Had the authorities intervened in Wade’s activities earlier, perhaps those innocent lives could have been saved. Those who have even warned of future attacks, does anyone care to track them down? The Department for Homeland Security warned of an “explosive” growth in this form of extremism in a report in 2009 and no one took it seriously, some political parties even criticized the report. So clearly, no preventative measures are being implemented and this is my only beef with the authorities and the governments, who I think should do more than just show up to condemn and clean up the mess after these extremists attack the minorities.

What I expect them to do is I think quite reasonable and fair. Don’t let these psychos preach hatred and extremism, just like you won’t let a radical jihadist abuse the freedom of speech. Dismantle the neo-Nazi organizations, just like you’d crack down on a radical madrassa’s operations. It’s high time you started taking these bigots seriously because your own official departments have warned that they pose a significant domestic security threat. That 2009 DHS report even warned of radical “disgruntled veterans” and lo and behold in 2012 an Army veteran shoots six people dead. So it’s not like no one was aware of the threat, just that no one cared to take any action.This article by The Guardian pretty much spoke my mind – “Wisconsin teaches us that the challenge that now presents itself is to understand what “pushes and pulls” citizens to commit violence in the name of rightwing extremism, and to develop an effective response. To do this, we must first start taking violence from the far right more seriously.” – That effective response, the preventative (not just corrective) control measures, is what I’m looking for. Hopefully, that’s not too much to ask.

Well they are hiding behind this law … that was my point … If this law can be hid behind it needs amendment - it should have only been there to protect people who were wronged, not to protect people who do wrong. Everything you wrote is good … and fair!

It comes back to the double standards of the US administration again.

[psyah]

Re: Living in USA

You know what I thought was brilliant; that newspaper in the mid east (dunno which one but jsut read the article here on GS on someone blog) that ran satire cartoons from the muslim perspective for ten days.

That was protest, the was the attention we needed.

The riots in Karachi - what did they prove or how did they hurt the makers of this movie? What they did was further impress upon Non Muslims the stigma that Muslims are a violent peole.

We have so many parai likhai loag that combact the issues with brain then brawn - Thats the route that we should be taking.

I think that everyone on this thread agrees that the movie was wrong. No one is condoning the movie or the violence that happened due to it.

Now the emotional response, mera sohnai Pyar Nabi Ki shaan mey koye kuch bhi keh de until the day of Qayamat he'll remain the reason Allah created this world. No matter what anyone says Prophet's (PBUH) name will remain alive in this world.

Insaan rasthai may har bounkthai kutai ko chup nahee karwatha. You move on.

Baat ye nahein hai ... ke hum kuttey ko chup karana chah tey hein ... baat ye hai ke ... jo hamarey saat bachey chal rahey hein hummey dekh kar unhen aisa lagey ke kuttey ko kuch nahein kaha - kya uss kuttey sey hummey darna chahiyey hai? Nahein, kuttey ko dara kar un bachon ko tassallee mein daalna chahiye hai ... ke chahey wo bhonk raha hai, lekin hum nahein dartey ...

It is important to express a strategic condemnation to inform the kuffar that we are not diluted Muslims who have lost their faith ... But we care for people and are civilised, but don't mess with us ...

[TLK]

Re: Living in USA

@psyah

. Some of the blame of the killed US consulates should be on filmmaker.

Slowly slowly lets distribute the blame of that killing on everyone so nothing left on the people who actually did the killing

Attack on consulate and killing of ambassador can be taken as act of war by US. Now if USA retaliates back in more aggressive way, then again it would be USA’s fault, somehow.

[TLK]

Re: Living in USA

"I'm not hurt but I condemn it"....what sort of logic is that? lol

I am hurt so lets kill every American person that I see and destroy every American building that I can.

lol lol

[heart_beat_1]

Re: Living in USA

11 pages and counting ! :--)

[Reha]

Re: Living in USA

are Goray prophets of Allah?

Agree with you Muniya but I've seen few people on GS saying muslims should have completely ignored the movie.

hareem,

I am not trying to be insensitive but I can't stomach the thought of letting some fool tell me that my Prophet (saw) is this or that.

I feel as if we're better than that...we can't possibly be that naive or stupid...people say things about Islam ALL the time...its been YEARS now. It hasn't changed my mind or made me less of a Muslim. If anything, its made me a little tougher than before. Its made me think a billion times before I open my mouth now. Because now, more than ever before Muslims are judged by what they do and what they say.

We talked about this for 11 pages now...does anyone ever get this riled up for a good cause? Nah. Because those are boring and this is interesting. The things that deserve importance are not important but somehow a low budget YouTube film made HEADLINES.

That bothers me. It shows our priorities. It shows that we're not really concerned at all about OUR future or what difference we're making or even how far we're getting as an Ummah.

[pinks]

Re: Living in USA

TLK, you're generally quite samhajdaar, so i dont get WHY you dont understand that the reaction (which was very wrong) is related to the history of American attitude (read torture) towards the muslim world... you keep repeating how is the film US's fault, you're not getting the issue is a much larger than the film in question.

[ninja_hattori]

Re: Living in USA

@The_Player

“Commonly subject to limitations” but not always. And as I mentioned in my last post whether free speech is considered “slander” is up to the courts to decide. However, any free speech that may be derogatory to a group/person does not automatically become slander.

If someone considers any speech as slander, the remedy is to go to courts. Burning flags, consulates and killing people is not the answer.

Those who are burning flag are not us residents to sue the producer in us court…
And killing of ambassador is debatable issue but you are trying to blame it on protesting muslims…good for you:k:
While you are respecting freedom of speech you are denying right to peaceful protest…
and burning of us flag is not a violent act…

[hareem01]

Re: Living in USA

I am hurt so lets kill every American person that I see and destroy every American building that I can.

lol lol

You're insulting the majority of muslims who carried out peaceful protests or spoke against it. We shouldn't see things in black and white, as I said majority of US people are nice people but there's a flaw in American policies.

I don't know....may be you're just trolling.

[hareem01]

Re: Living in USA

hareem,

I am not trying to be insensitive but I can't stomach the thought of letting some fool tell me that my Prophet (saw) is this or that.

I feel as if we're better than that...we can't possibly be that naive or stupid...people say things about Islam ALL the time...its been YEARS now. It hasn't changed my mind or made me less of a Muslim. If anything, its made me a little tougher than before. Its made me think a billion times before I open my mouth now. Because now, more than ever before Muslims are judged by what they do and what they say.

We talked about this for 11 pages now...does anyone ever get this riled up for a good cause? Nah. Because those are boring and this is interesting. The things that deserve importance are not important but somehow a low budget YouTube film made HEADLINES.

That bothers me. It shows our priorities. It shows that we're not really concerned at all about OUR future or what difference we're making or even how far we're getting as an Ummah.

You are among the posters of this 11 pages thread.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Living in USA

@The_Player

Thats a separate issue.

Your point about US discriminating between hate speech directed against Jews vs. Muslims is incorrect.

A lot of negative feelings against the US are based on such misinformation spread by people who claim to know it all.

@hareem01

It was Mohnnad’s post I commented on. Maaf karo Southie uncle.

Southie Uncle kahan se aa gae?

[Kinzz]

Re: Living in USA

11 pages, 211 posts.

Per na bat ka sar hai abhi tak koi na pair.

[_MuNiYa]

Re: Living in USA

The movie maker was arrested.
For breaking parrol (sp) and using over 13 alias'

So this gentleman isn't actualy a very ideal citizen to begin with.

[The_Player]

Re: Living in USA

@ninja_hattori

Those who are burning flag are not us residents to sue the producer in us court…
And killing of ambassador is debatable issue but you are trying to blame it on protesting muslims…good for you:k:
While you are respecting freedom of speech you are denying right to peaceful protest…
and burning of us flag is not a violent act…

So whats the solution ? Protest “peacefully” in some country other than US and destroy public property there ? Or offer a bounty on the film maker’s head like the Pak railways minister has done ?

Protesting peacefully is everyone’s right, but often times these protests become violent.

And I agree with you that burning US flag is not a violent act per se, but it can definitely be injurious to health :hmmm:

Pakistani protester dies from smoke inhalation after burning US flag

[Muzna]

Re: Living in USA

I wonder what would happen if the film maker were dropped on the streets in Pakistan......let's talk about that.

[X2]

Depends on which street and what time.

Would be safe at Fajr time because very few ppl bother to go to the masjid, and I suppose those that do will not be violen

[The_Jinx]

Re: Living in USA

@Muzna

I wonder what would happen if the film maker were dropped on the streets in Pakistan......let's talk about that.

Looking at the pathetic and uneducated mindset from the history, I would not be surprised if he is burnt alive.

Strictly Islamically speaking, he should be tried in the court and no single person should be allowed to take law in his hand. Anyone, in the presence of govt. run by muslims, who takes the law in the hand clearly goes against the teachings of the Prophet (SAW).

[Le_Pakistan]

Re: Living in USA

@Muzna

I wonder what would happen if the film maker were dropped on the streets in Pakistan......let's talk about that.

Why divert the attention to Pakistan?
What will you gain by wondering about that?
How is that related to this all?

It smells like challo America ki dumb bach jaye gi, let's go after Pak instead.

[X2]

Actually the thread has veered from the topic from the get go.

It had 4 main components

1-The movie
2- US govt's response as it pertains to movie
3-Reaction by Muslims in Pakistan and other places
4- Impact on American Muslims

If I start counting the posts that stayed on topic, we would be 3 pages max.

However Muzna's post work with point #3 above so it stays truer to the thread than many other posts by many esteemed members in this thread

[Muzna]

Re: Living in USA

@Le_Pakistan

Why divert the attention to Pakistan? What will you gain by wondering about that? How is that related to this all?

It smells like challo America ki dumb bach jaye gi, let's go after Pak instead.

If all you can see in my post is an attempt to divert attention and save America ki dumm then you have missed the point.