Lahore Metro Train : Orange Line

Wish they would also invest in some cultural institutions… Lahore needs more museums, libraries etc. Parks like this should have such places as the center point. A cultural complex, like akin to Trafalgar square in London etc.
Perhaps a Botanical gardens in this area.

Med911 · February 19, 2016, 10:38pm

Re: Lahore Metro Train : Orange Line

Jolie:

I’m not asking for dictatorship here, so please can you please stop excessively dwelling on it.

Patience does not mean lethargic stagnation, and complacent and anti-intellectual mindset that relies on time to fix everything instead of encouraging nation to always analyse things and strive for better. People will only fix democracy when they realise that democracy needs to be fixed, and the ways it could be fixed. If they don’t have the knowledge of what a functional, quality and transparent democracy looks like – how will they strive for it? How on earth we will have debates and exchange of ideas on democracy – if opposition to bad practices are considered a threat to democracy?

Yes today people are more politically aware (thanks to a military dictator, ironic right?) because a certain fraction of society has refused to adhere to that uninspired mentality - they really do believe that things could be be better and they would only get better if they raise their voice. If your house tap is leaking, would you try to fix it as soon as possible, or sit there and think that as long as there is no flooding in the house, it is okay if the tap is leaking indefinitely- at least we have a tap. So yes that attitude has to be dumped, and thankfully there are people who are shunning this attitude.

Middle East was far more developed than Pakistan can be in the next 50 years. They had the best roads, never ending highways, biggest housing blocks, tall buildings, massive population, natural resources, rich elite, and affluent middle class, utmost pride in their language and heritage, but unfortunately it was their complacent mindset with mediocrity, corruption, inequalities, secrecy, injustice, bad governance and Human Rights issues that became their downfall. Exactly the kind of mentality to fund in large section of Pakistanis.

So the point is, if concrete development and building of highways was everything, then Middle East would have been a heaven on earth today, and yes, likes of Saddam, Assad and Mubarak held 'elections' too.

I love your response. Classic. Typical stuff they say for rape, child abuse and virtually every crime in Pakistan. Name the crimes that actually gets 'proven' in the court in Pakistan.

I didnt say anything about a dictatorship...

Yes we need a strong opposition... But an opposition that is pragmatic and reasonable. Dharnas and threats are not conducive to the promotion of democratic norms. And being antagonistic about everything, just for the sake of it, isn't helpful either. The metro bus for example, is something that is needed... Why oppose something that is clearly of benefit to the masses? Besides, even the KP govt is now ready to build a similar BRT system in Peshawar, despite having heaped scorn on the same in Lahore.

There are two factors needed for development... They work in unison. You need social, political and economic stability, and you need the physical infrastructure to facilitate that process. You cant have social integration without motorways and rail. Cities can offer employment but only if they can integrate and manage the people that live in it.. you cant have that without mass transit. Likewise, you cant build physical infrastructure without sociopolitical stability... Case in point, Balochistan has neither sociopolitical order, nor infrastructure. When they try to build the infrastructure, security becomes a deterrent. When the try to imporve the social factors, the lack of infrastructure is a deterrent. So another words, you need to have both to function.

As far as the arabs are concerned, many would be envious of Pakistan. They have built a lot of infrastructure, but because they havent evolved politically, and havent empowered their own people, they remain backwards despite their world class infrastructure. Look at the Saudis, you know their worried about what will happen once their oil dries up and they can no longer afford to pay their people...

And whether you like it or not, all crimes, from electoral fraud to rape and abuse, also have to be proven... Assuming guilt without evidence or a trial,negates the very purpose of having a Judiciary. I mean its simple stuff, if you assume others guilty of something without evidence, what to stop others from assuming the same of you? Its what seperates civilization from barbarity. Should we just reinsitute the old trial by ordeal stuff if you think Pakistans courts are inefficient? You know, if she burns then she be a witch!

Jolie · February 20, 2016, 12:18am

Re: Lahore Metro Train : Orange Line

Med911:

I didnt say anything about a dictatorship...

Yes we need a strong opposition... But an opposition that is pragmatic and reasonable. Dharnas and threats are not conducive to the promotion of democratic norms. And being antagonistic about everything, just for the sake of it, isn't helpful either. The metro bus for example, is something that is needed... Why oppose something that is clearly of benefit to the masses? Besides, even the KP govt is now ready to build a similar BRT system in Peshawar, despite having heaped scorn on the same in Lahore.

There are two factors needed for development... They work in unison. You need social, political and economic stability, and you need the physical infrastructure to facilitate that process. You cant have social integration without motorways and rail. Cities can offer employment but only if they can integrate and manage the people that live in it.. you cant have that without mass transit. Likewise, you cant build physical infrastructure without sociopolitical stability... Case in point, Balochistan has neither sociopolitical order, nor infrastructure. When they try to build the infrastructure, security becomes a deterrent. When the try to imporve the social factors, the lack of infrastructure is a deterrent. So another words, you need to have both to function.

As far as the arabs are concerned, many would be envious of Pakistan. They have built a lot of infrastructure, but because they havent evolved politically, and havent empowered their own people, they remain backwards despite their world class infrastructure. Look at the Saudis, you know their worried about what will happen once their oil dries up and they can no longer afford to pay their people...

And whether you like it or not, all crimes, from electoral fraud to rape and abuse, also have to be proven... Assuming guilt without evidence or a trial,negates the very purpose of having a Judiciary. I mean its simple stuff, if you assume others guilty of something without evidence, what to stop others from assuming the same of you? Its what seperates civilization from barbarity. Should we just reinsitute the old trial by ordeal stuff if you think Pakistans courts are inefficient? You know, if she burns then she be a witch!

I haven't read more than a quarter of your post because the highlighted bit just shows we are just going round and round in circles, with you not even trying to get the point, and I think it's time to make this post my last post of this conversation.

In this whole conversation I have mentioned numerous times why Metro got criticized. You just see Metro as a big shiny red bus, you think it's the best thing ever and should not be criticised at all no matter what. While there are people who like to think outside of the box and can argue that Punjab Metro project (not the need for an effective bus system) is a shady project because the way its records and dealings have been handled, making it the most expensive bus project in the world (with all records conveniently burned). The project adds nothing to the revenue; in fact government pays 50 billion every year to run it. Now don’t talk about passenger saving Rs.10 as some massive achievement when government imposes many other indirect taxes on essential items to get money. And billions wasted on Metro annually means that the government has no money left to spend on education, health and other departments.
I’m sorry if all this in depth analysis sounds like criticism for sake criticism. Your posts have been full of contradiction. On one hand you talk about political awareness and development, but on the other hand you want none of Sharif brother’s shiny projects to be questioned.

I am pretty sure there were groups in Arab countries that simply did not allow the population to question their rulers on the merit of their shiny infrastructure projects, and therefore the population could not grow politically because all actions of their governments were made to look absolutely fine in every context. They were made to feel great about themselves by looking at their roads and building blocks. They weren’t allowed to think outside the box. Pakistan can’t afford this Arab world culture, where you push infrastructure down people’s throats, and say here, take it, it’s the best hing ever and now don’t utter a word.

As with KPK, first of all, you really need to learn to differentiate between mass transit bus service and Sharif style Metro project. Yes, KPK has thrown heaps of criticism on Sharif brothers’ Metro Project and that they are under healthy pressure to find a much cheaper, viable and cost effective project to prove their point and vindicate all their criticism, and I appreciate this. Not that Sharif brothers will release their NFC, Net Hydel Project and gas royalties so they can have a decent budget.

So this is where you and I differ. I believe that genuine criticism is absolutely vita for political growth and awareness, and it leads to improvement in future projects and it leads political and economic awareness. Don’t insult yours and mine intelligence by only seeing dharna as the only face of opposition.

Med911 · February 20, 2016, 3:45am

Re: Lahore Metro Train : Orange Line

Jolie:

I haven't read more than a quarter of your post because the highlighted bit just shows we are just going round and round in circles, with you not even trying to get the point, and I think it's time to make this post my last post of this conversation.

In this whole conversation I have mentioned numerous times why Metro got criticized. You just see Metro as a big shiny red bus, you think it's the best thing ever and should not be criticised at all no matter what. While there are people who like to think outside of the box and can argue that Punjab Metro project (not the need for an effective bus system) is a shady project because the way its records and dealings have been handled, making it the most expensive bus project in the world (with all records conveniently burned). The project adds nothing to the revenue; in fact government pays 50 billion every year to run it. Now don’t talk about passenger saving Rs.10 as some massive achievement when government imposes many other indirect taxes on essential items to get money. And billions wasted on Metro annually means that the government has no money left to spend on education, health and other departments. I’m sorry if all this in depth analysis sounds like criticism for sake criticism. Your posts have been full of contradiction. On one hand you talk about political awareness and development, but on the other hand you want none of Sharif brother’s shiny projects to be questioned.

I am pretty sure there were groups in Arab countries that simply did not allow the population to question their rulers on the merit of their shiny infrastructure projects, and therefore the population could not grow politically because all actions of their governments were made to look absolutely fine in every context. They were made to feel great about themselves by looking at their roads and building blocks. They weren’t allowed to think outside the box. Pakistan can’t afford this Arab world culture, where you push infrastructure down people’s throats, and say here, take it, it’s the best hing ever and now don’t utter a word.

As with KPK, first of all, you really need to learn to differentiate between mass transit bus service and Sharif style Metro project. Yes, KPK has thrown heaps of criticism on Sharif brothers’ Metro Project and that they are under healthy pressure to find a much cheaper, viable and cost effective project to prove their point and vindicate all their criticism, and I appreciate this. Not that Sharif brothers will release their NFC, Net Hydel Project and gas royalties so they can have a decent budget.

So this is where you and I differ. I believe that genuine criticism is absolutely vita for political growth and awareness, and it leads to improvement in future projects and it leads political and economic awareness. Don’t insult yours and mine intelligence by only seeing dharna as the only face of opposition.

I guess im missing the point. well, good talking to you as always... :) Hope this opposition adds something of value to the process.

arshad5 · February 20, 2016, 5:28pm

Re: Lahore Metro Train : Orange Line

Any project that benefits the poor general public must be appreciated. The only people against this project seem to be people that drive around in cars or have a political motivation in opposing it. This project is an investment and not a cost.

desert_bird · February 21, 2016, 7:47am

Re: Lahore Metro Train : Orange Line

**Lahore Orange Line Metro Train

**Official render

**Yard and Depots

**

Jolie · February 21, 2016, 10:28pm

Re: Lahore Metro Train : Orange Line

It's good talking to as well, I don't remember when was the last time we had a long meaningful exchange.

But one thing I would like to say in regards to KP's mass transit is that if KP government can make a 23km bus lane with air conditioned buses for Rs.12 billion without any subsidy, in comparison to Punjab 50 billion Metro's plus 5million a day subsidy, I'd say their scrutiny of Punjab Metro was completely valid and well worth it!

But that's the reason why Federal government isn't giving them the land for the routes because cost and transparency comparisons of KP Bus project and Punjab Metro cost will really really hurt the Noon League.

Chaudhry_sahab · February 22, 2016, 12:11am

Re: Lahore Metro Train : Orange Line

Serious BS. You are so blind in hate of Govt that you have lost your senses! Grow up, get some medication or something.

Jolie · February 22, 2016, 12:26am

Re: Lahore Metro Train : Orange Line

Piss off. Give the name of medication your blind corrupt self had been taking so I can also fall in love your Ganja Lord and start uttering BS that pleases you.

The post wasn't even for you, you .................. If you are going to get abusive for no reason, then you deserve to be treated the same way.

Chaudhry_sahab · February 22, 2016, 12:27am

Re: Lahore Metro Train : Orange Line

Like I give a rats a$$ what you can do, I am just pointing the fact here that is quite evident in your posts full of hate and BS. Live some, will ya ?

Jolie · February 22, 2016, 12:32am

Re: Lahore Metro Train : Orange Line

What pointing facts? You restored to abrupt personal attacks like a retard. This is how all patwari work. I could have given you the same treatment for your shtty propaganda and hatred for PTI/KPK, but I largely ignored all your pro PMLN BS.

Your corrupt Ganja lords are simply not giving KPK the land they need to build the routes. Now show your gutter mentality and recommend medication like everyone is in the same boat as you. Again, I could have treated you in the same manner with your non-stop shtty pro PMLN/Punjab and anti KPK rubbish.

Chaudhry_sahab · February 22, 2016, 12:47am

Re: Lahore Metro Train : Orange Line

Blah Blah Blah! Just know new sherrif in town and wont let run people amok about BSing facts. Period. Your hate for this Govt is so much that you just resort to a level of crap that is unprecedented. Any way carry one, We will fix your lies and BS one thing at a time. You simply are not going to have a free run any more. By you I dont mean just you, but all pseudo intellects whose soul purpose is to hate some one. such is the seed of hate imran has planted among us that there is no limit to pissing from mouth just because you lost the elections and just because you hate this Govt. You will lose again and I am here to stand up to lies of your kind. Game on!

Jolie · February 22, 2016, 12:56am

Re: Lahore Metro Train : Orange Line

Hahaha. You sound like a kid trying to act like superman on internet....I'll do this, I'll do that. LOL Maybe it's the effect of your medications.

Listen we used to couple of really passionate patwaris on this site, but the traffic has generally gone down. So don't flatter yourself the first of its Nawaz Sharif fanboy, there are couple of closet ones.

Debate with information and logic and passion all you want, and I'll happily respond. But if you are going to act like a jahil dumbass and quote tweets with one liner personal attack. This new sheriff will be crying for his bail soon enough.

Yes there are more than enough morally corrupt Punjabis who will vote these crimianl brothers in. The fate of whole of Pakistan is decided by rural Punjabis - thats why PMLN and their Jahil supporters will never allow electoral reforms. Blood sucking Punjabi oligarchs will be imposed on rest of Pakistan. No other party will ever be given a chance. People like you don't believe in competition or merit. You can celebrate this. But let's see how PMLN wins 2018 and Boots don't kick their asses out when a rebellion from Karachi to Khyber erupts.

PS: Of course I hate your corrupt criminal leaders, don't need to tell me that again and again.

waleedhbk · February 22, 2016, 2:01am

Re: Lahore Metro Train : Orange Line

Jolie:

Hahaha. You sound like a kid trying to act like superman on internet....I'll do this, I'll do that. LOL Maybe it's the effect of your medications.

Listen we used to couple of really passionate patwaris on this site, but the traffic has generally gone down. So don't flatter yourself the first of its Nawaz Sharif fanboy, there are couple of closet ones.

Debate with information and logic and passion all you want, and I'll happily respond. But if you are going to act like a jahil dumbass and quote tweets with one liner personal attack. This new sheriff will be crying for his bail soon enough.

Yes there are more than enough morally corrupt Punjabis who will vote these crimianl brothers in. The fate of whole of Pakistan is decided by rural Punjabis - thats why PMLN and their Jahil supporters will never allow electoral reforms. Blood sucking Punjabi oligarchs will be imposed on rest of Pakistan. No other party will ever be given a chance. People like you don't believe in competition or merit. You can celebrate this. But let's see how PMLN wins 2018 and Boots don't kick their asses out when a rebellion from Karachi to Khyber erupts.

PS: Of course I hate your corrupt criminal leaders, don't need to tell me that again and again.

Dont burn your bloood with jaahil patwaris we already did so much before

buddhababa · February 22, 2016, 5:03am

Re: Lahore Metro Train : Orange Line

یہ پاکستان کی تاریخ ہے کہ ہر بڑے پراجیکٹ کی بڑے پیمانے پر صرف اور صرف سیاسی اختلافات کی بنیاد پر مخالفت کی گئی ہے۔ سیاسی شاطر اپنے وقتی سیاسی مفاد کے لئے نا پختہ، نا بالغ ذہنوں پر اثر اندا ہو کر انہیں ورغلانے کی کوشش کرتے ہیں مگر جب ارادے پختہ ہوں اور نظر خدا پر ہو تو طلاطم خیز موجیں راستہ نہیں روک سکتیں۔ سندھ تاس منصوبے،منگلا ڈیم، تربیلا ڈیم، کا لا باغ ڈیم،اسلام آباد شہر کے
قیام، موٹر وے، میٹرو بس اور اب اورنج لائن ٹرین،کے خلاف ایک ہی گردان،
۔قومی دولت کو برباد کیا جا رہا ہے۔
قدرتی حسن کا بیڑہ غرق کر رہے ہیں۔
غریبوں کی بستیوں اور ان کے آبا و اجداد کی قبروں کو کبھی زیر آب اور کبھی مسمار کرکے جذبات ابھارنے کی کوشش
تاجروں کے کاروبار
تاریخی ورثہ کی تباہی۔
چھوٹے صوبوں کے نام پر ہا ہا کار۔
کمشن کک بیک اور لوٹ گئے کھا گئے کا واویلہ
سفید ہاتھی، سفید ہاتھی۔ معیشت پر باقابل برداشت بوجھ۔
لیکن سوائے کالا باغ کے ہر بار اپنے غلیظ مقاصد میں ناکام رہے۔ آج کسی کو احساس ہی نہیں کہ ان عظیم الشان منصوبوں سے پاکستان کے لوگ کس بڑے پیمانے پر مستفید ہورہے ہیں
اس اورنج لائن ٹرین کو بھی بن جانا ہے۔ آج کا سیاسی مخالف اس سنہرے کارنامے کو تسلیم کرے نا کرے آنے والے کل کے لاہوری اور دیگر پاکستانی ضرور میں برادران کے مشکور ہوں گے۔
بس میاں برادران کو اس تنقید کو تندی باد مخالف سمجھنا ہوگا جو انہیں اونچا اڑانے کے لئے چل رہی ہے۔

boota · February 22, 2016, 9:43am

Re: Lahore Metro Train : Orange Line

buddhababa:

یہ پاکستان کی تاریخ ہے کہ ہر بڑے پراجیکٹ کی بڑے پیمانے پر صرف اور صرف سیاسی اختلافات کی بنیاد پر مخالفت کی گئی ہے۔ سیاسی شاطر اپنے وقتی سیاسی مفاد کے لئے نا پختہ، نا بالغ ذہنوں پر اثر اندا ہو کر انہیں ورغلانے کی کوشش کرتے ہیں مگر جب ارادے پختہ ہوں اور نظر خدا پر ہو تو طلاطم خیز موجیں راستہ نہیں روک سکتیں۔ سندھ تاس منصوبے،منگلا ڈیم، تربیلا ڈیم، کا لا باغ ڈیم،اسلام آباد شہر کے قیام، موٹر وے، میٹرو بس اور اب اورنج لائن ٹرین،کے خلاف ایک ہی گردان، ۔قومی دولت کو برباد کیا جا رہا ہے۔ قدرتی حسن کا بیڑہ غرق کر رہے ہیں۔ غریبوں کی بستیوں اور ان کے آبا و اجداد کی قبروں کو کبھی زیر آب اور کبھی مسمار کرکے جذبات ابھارنے کی کوشش تاجروں کے کاروبار تاریخی ورثہ کی تباہی۔ چھوٹے صوبوں کے نام پر ہا ہا کار۔ کمشن کک بیک اور لوٹ گئے کھا گئے کا واویلہ سفید ہاتھی، سفید ہاتھی۔ معیشت پر باقابل برداشت بوجھ۔ لیکن سوائے کالا باغ کے ہر بار اپنے غلیظ مقاصد میں ناکام رہے۔ آج کسی کو احساس ہی نہیں کہ ان عظیم الشان منصوبوں سے پاکستان کے لوگ کس بڑے پیمانے پر مستفید ہورہے ہیں اس اورنج لائن ٹرین کو بھی بن جانا ہے۔ آج کا سیاسی مخالف اس سنہرے کارنامے کو تسلیم کرے نا کرے آنے والے کل کے لاہوری اور دیگر پاکستانی ضرور میں برادران کے مشکور ہوں گے۔ بس میاں برادران کو اس تنقید کو تندی باد مخالف سمجھنا ہوگا جو انہیں اونچا اڑانے کے لئے چل رہی ہے۔

Subhan Allah..so says another patwari.
care to tell us why the costs of these projects are higher than all such projects done world wide?..

desert_bird · February 22, 2016, 1:48pm

Re: Lahore Metro Train : Orange Line

desert_bird · February 22, 2016, 1:52pm

Re: Lahore Metro Train : Orange Line