I have a question.
Why do shias pick out certain hadiths from sahih bukhari, and then in the end reject other hadiths from sahih bukhari?
Makes no sense, you're not putting faith in the book, you're just picking and choosing.
.
exactly my question ! I ask the same to sunnis and shias who pick and choose from each others books
Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)
^Not only that they often use Hadith that if true go against their own aqeeda
like, Hadith of Hoz-e-kauthar
or saying that Rasoolullah saw was poisoned by His wives and all that rubbish stuff
^Not only that they often use Hadith that if true go against their own aqeeda
like, Hadith of Hoz-e-kauthar or saying that Rasoolullah saw was poisoned by His wives and all that rubbish stuff
thats the problem their aqeedah esp. with relation to imamate has undergone several changes since its formulation
more relevant to this thread the example here is classic
The early extremist sects of shias from which the 12er sect is descended] who appeared after times of imam jafar sadiq started insulting the shaikyan for the first time in history] note here dont mean constructive criticism but slandering and questioning their faith.( people like "healthymind" "Nusairee") .e.g If you read a 12er tafsir it seems that every ayat that was sent for hypocrites was intended for abu bakr and umar.Their agenda is quite clear.
These people were nothing like the people of the salaf.
As a reaction the more extremist and hotheaded elements amongst sunnis started gloriying and defending the enemies of Ali.And criticizing the actions that Ali took to quell the rebellions of his times.
(people like "shaarabi") the emotions of these religiously minded simpletons were cleverly exploited by the sympathizers of ummayyads who sought to rehablitate the image of ummayyads as "defenders of islam".They propogated the idea that if you justify actions of Ali or criticize his opponents you "become a shia" Since Ali was now officially accepted as a pious caliph by majority of muslims these people sought to attack Ali indirectly.
one in their alleged love for Ali have become extreme innovaters while others in their hatred of ALi have embraced hypocrisy [according to authentic hadith of the Prophet]
All range of views here from Shia extremists (nussairee) to Sunni extremists (wahabis) to neo-modern Islamists.
I think only the minority of Shias go to the lengths of abusing some sahabis. This can be verified from the fact that none of the great Aalims of Ahlay Tasheeh have ever subscribed to this practice and have condemned this sort of negtive behaviour. Anybody who doubts this can go and search their books online.
Wahabis may not like Imam Ali because of the obvious fact that their whole faith is based on hate and ill intention(s). Similarly, hate or bughs of Imam Ali can never be part of a Sunnis' faith and sunnis are independent from such ignorance. Infact its to the contrary, Sunnis love Imam Ali just as much as Shias do.
As far i understand, this thread is an extension of the Israr Ahmed thread. Well, i would expect all the people of wisdom to open their eyes and try to wake up and understand the game being played here. I will quote a young sunni aalim whose video i saw here saying
"Sunnah and Shiite are two wings of the same bird"
So anyone who tries to harm one is infact harming the whole entity. So we must not fall prey into the hands of our enemies (they are strong and they are many). We as an individuals must try to better ourselves and follow Quran and Seerat of our Prophet (pbuh&f). We must treat each other with love and respect and above all tolerance.
Not that Br. Psyah will not be here to defend himself however I think you totally misunderstood what he meant to say. He is not siding with anyone here who curses any of the Sahabi.
I think only the minority of Shias go to the lengths of abusing some sahabis. This can be verified from the fact that none of the great Aalims of Ahlay Tasheeh have ever subscribed to this practice and have condemned this sort of negtive behaviour. Anybody who doubts this can go and search their books online.
So tacitly you have agreed that generally 12er Shias do abuse the some Sahabis (May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all) and that only minority Shias go to greater lengths to abuse sahabis
Wahabis may not like Imam Ali because of the obvious fact that their whole faith is based on hate and ill intention(s). Similarly, hate or bughs of Imam Ali can never be part of a Sunnis' faith and sunnis are independent from such ignorance. Infact its to the contrary, Sunnis love Imam Ali just as much as Shias do.
Sorry you are wrong – “Wahabis” do love Hz. Ali (ra) but not to limits the 12er Shias would like them to. And just to qualify I’m not a “Wahabi”
As far i understand, this thread is an extension of the Israr Ahmed thread. Well, i would expect all the people of wisdom to open their eyes and try to wake up and understand the game being played here.
You are wrong again - so is your understanding. It is better if you were to open your eyes and try to wake up and understand what this thread is about.
You would have showed your ‘supposedly’ fairness if you had defended the attack on Hz. Umar (ra) in your post.
...
Sorry you are wrong – “Wahabis” do love Hz. Ali (ra) but not to limits the 12er Shias would like them to. And just to qualify I’m not a “Wahabi”
Mate, you could sure do with a bit of respect and ikhlaaq! It a waste of time to even respond to you since now I know which creed you belong to. Bye now.
lol, now u will defend Khalifa Umar. Keep an eye on the Khalifa as he might decide to take off on u too:
(Battle of Hunayn)
"The Muslims took to flight. I was also among them. Suddenly I saw Umar ibn Khattab among those who were running away. I asked him: 'What has happened?' He said: 'It is the order of Allah.'"
Sahih Bukhari Vol. 3, p. 45.
There is plenty more but lets not go there. I will keep u busy with this1 for this weekend :)
lol, now u will defend Khalifa Umar. Keep an eye on the Khalifa as he might decide to take off on u too:
(Battle of Hunayn) "The Muslims took to flight. I was also among them. Suddenly I saw Umar ibn Khattab among those who were running away. I asked him: 'What has happened?' He said: 'It is the order of Allah.'" Sahih Bukhari Vol. 3, p. 45.
There is plenty more but lets not go there. I will keep u busy with this1 for this weekend :)
It seems you believe in Sahih Bukhari by heart, so I'm guessing you believe this too..
Narrated Amr bin Al-Aas (radiallahu anhu): “The Prophet of Allah (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) deputed me to lead the army of Dat as-Salasil. I came to him and said: “Who is the most beloved person to you?' He said: “Aa'isha” I asked “Amongst men?” He said: “Her father (Abu Bakr)...” Saheeh Al-Bukharee v.5, no.14
Dont make a mockery of a book, and religion. If you are going to be narrow minded and full of propaganda, then atleast be a bit more credible. I hope you get my point, if you haven't already.
lol, now u will defend Khalifa Umar. Keep an eye on the Khalifa as he might decide to take off on u too:
(Battle of Hunayn) "The Muslims took to flight. I was also among them. Suddenly I saw Umar ibn Khattab among those who were running away. I asked him: 'What has happened?' He said: 'It is the order of Allah.'" Sahih Bukhari Vol. 3, p. 45.
There is plenty more but lets not go there. I will keep u busy with this1 for this weekend :)
The life of Hz. Umar (ra) is an open book. There were mistakes in his life. He is Human. This incidence is one of few. But just like everyone else, he should be evaluated on the basis of his totality, not individual incidents. To deny such incidents of error or mistake is not Islamic.
To use few incidents to malign him is more “unIslamic”.
The Muslim Army was ambushed by the Hawazin and Thaqif tribes in the valleys of Taif area. The shock of initial attack took those who were in the front to run away.
But you must agree army did re-group after the initial shock and then subdued the formidable Hawazin and Thaqif tribes and overcame them and took all them as prisoners.
Refer to the Ayah dealing with the Battle of Hunayn.
Assuredly Allah did help you in many battle-fields and on the day of Hunain: Behold! your great numbers elated you, but they availed you naught: the land, for all that it is wide, did constrain you, and ye turned back in retreat. 9:25
**But Allah did pour His calm on the Messenger and on the Believers, and sent down forces which ye saw not: He punished the Unbelievers; thus doth He reward those without Faith.9:26
Again will Allah, after this, turn (in mercy) to whom He will: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. 9:27
The unbelievers were punished and Believers were forgiven.
Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)
Nusairee I know how u guys pick and choose from history .....do you know which sahabi took the rein of the prophet[saw] camel and pledged to fight to death on that occassion ?
Abu Sufyan b Harith ra .....a late convert to islam.You claim to respect good sahaba but Its funny that he is also by fault accused of apostasy as accordting to 12ers only 3 sahaba remained muslims after prophet[saw] and he is not one of the three.
" The Prophet said: "In the nations long before you were people who were spoken to [by the angels] although they were not prophets. If there is anyone of them in my Community, truly it is Umar ibn al-Khattab." This narration is elucidated by the two narrations whereby "Allah has engraved truth on the tongue ofUmar and his heart" and "If there were a Prophet after me verily it would be `Umar."
Enough said, some people need to stop wasting their time.
Allah Threatning Umer and Abu Bakar in QURAN
HOW could you give high authourity to umer when always ask for help From Imam Alis(as) after Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) death.
where he do not have knowledge how can you fix him for Prophet Hood.
O people who have faith! Do not push yourselves forward in the presence of Allah and His Prophet (Muhammad); And fear Allah (in yourselves); Indeed Allah is All-Listener, All-Knowledgeable. O people who have faith! Do not raise your voices above the voice of the Prophet (Muhammad). And do not speak aloud to him in talk as you speak aloud to one another so that your (good) deeds do not fail while you are (even) not aware. Indeed those who lower their voices in the presence of Allah's Prophet; Those are whose hearts Allah had tested for piety; For them forgiveness and a great reward.
Muhammad bin Fudail from Ashath from al-Hakam bin Utaiba who said: ‘When the people fled from the Prophet [s] at the day of Hunayn, the Prophet [s] used to say: ‘I am the Prophet no doubt * I am the son of Abdulmutalib.’
No one remained with Him except four: Three from Bani Hashim and a man: Ali bin Abi Talib, Abbas and they were in front of him, Abu Sufyan bin al-Harith holding the rein and Ibn Masud on his left side.’ (al-Musnaf by Ibn Abi Shayba, Volume 8 page 553)
Yes u r correct, Abu Sufyan ibn al-Harith ibn Abdul Muttalib was one of the remaining sahabis with the Prophet (saww).
You said according to Shia only 3 sahaba remained Muslim after the prophet?! where on earth (internet?) are you getting this information from?
Nusairee I know how u guys pick and choose from history .....do you know which sahabi took the rein of the prophet[saw] camel and pledged to fight to death on that occassion ? Abu Sufyan b Harith ra .....a late convert to islam.You claim to respect good sahaba but Its funny that he is also by fault accused of apostasy as accordting to 12ers only 3 sahaba remained muslims after prophet[saw] and he is not one of the three.
Brother Das Reich I believe he (Abu Sufyan b Harith [ra]) was Prophet's (saw) cousin and very close childhood friend - and there is very touching story of his conversion to Islam just before Conquest of Makkah and very human interaction between him and the Prophet (saw).
The life of Hz. Umar (ra) is an open book. There were mistakes in his life. He is Human. This incidence is one of few. But just like everyone else, he should be evaluated on the basis of his totality, not individual incidents. To deny such incidents of error or mistake is not Islamic.
To use few incidents to malign him is more “unIslamic”.
The Muslim Army was ambushed by the Hawazin and Thaqif tribes in the valleys of Taif area. The shock of initial attack took those who were in the front to run away.
But you must agree army did re-group after the initial shock and then subdued the formidable Hawazin and Thaqif tribes and overcame them and took all them as prisoners.
Refer to the Ayah dealing with the Battle of Hunayn.
Assuredly Allah did help you in many battle-fields and on the day of Hunain: Behold! your great numbers elated you, but they availed you naught: the land, for all that it is wide, did constrain you, and ye turned back in retreat. 9:25 **But Allah did pour His calm on the Messenger and on the Believers, and sent down forces which ye saw not: He punished the Unbelievers; thus doth He reward those without Faith.9:26 Again will Allah, after this, turn (in mercy) to whom He will: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. 9:27
The unbelievers were punished and Believers were forgiven.
Peace Ibn Sadique, good to c u being nice. Thanx for the love.
Did i hear u say "To deny such incidents of error or mistake is not Islamic". I admire your honesty.
Btw the term 'believers' that is used here is for those who stood behind with the Prophet (saww). According to some traditions Ali ibn abi Talib, Abbas ibn Abd al Muttalib, Abu Sufyan ibn Harith and Abdullah ibn Masud were the only four persons who stayed with the Holy Prophet. Some say there were ten persons who did not run away. Imam Ali stood in front of the Holy Prophet and stopped every attack made by the enemy to slay him. The Holy Prophet called those who were deserting to come back. Some of them returned and joined Ali to launch a counter attack on the enemy. When Ali killed Abu Jarul, the standard bearer and chief of the enemy army, a general retreat began to take place among the invaders, which soon turned into chaos and then flight. In this way a most crushing defeat was inflicted on the enemy.
~~"La fatà illa Ali, la saif illa Zulfiqar" ( لا فتى إلا علي لا سيف إلا ذو الفقار ), meaning "There is no hero but Ali, and no sword except Zulfiqar~~
It is also important to note that after the battle, on the instructions of the Holy Prophet, the spoils of war taken by the Muslims, were returned to those who embraced Islam. Some refused to comply with his orders. In such cases the Holy Prophet compensated them.
When one companion protested that the Holy Prophet had not done justice in the matter of distributing the spoils of war, some people wanted to kill him, but the Holy Prophet stopped them and said: "Wait. Such people, on their own, one day will go out of the true faith, then the best of men among you will kill him." And that man was killed by Ali in the battle of Nahrawan that was fought between Imam Ali and the damned Muawiya.
It seems you believe in Sahih Bukhari by heart, so I'm guessing you believe this too..
Narrated Amr bin Al-Aas (radiallahu anhu): “The Prophet of Allah (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) deputed me to lead the army of Dat as-Salasil. I came to him and said: “Who is the most beloved person to you?' He said: “Aa'isha” I asked “Amongst men?” He said: “Her father (Abu Bakr)...” [Saheeh Al-Bukharee v.5, no.14[/COLOR]
Dont make a mockery of a book, and religion. If you are going to be narrow minded and full of propaganda, then atleast be a bit more credible. I hope you get my point, if you haven't already.
lol well said....
Allah Threatning Umer and Abu Bakar in QURAN
HOW could you give high authourity to umer when always ask for help From Imam Alis(as) after Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) death. where he do not have knowledge how can you fix him for Prophet Hood.
O people who have faith! Do not push yourselves forward in the presence of Allah and His Prophet (Muhammad); And fear Allah (in yourselves); Indeed Allah is All-Listener, All-Knowledgeable. O people who have faith! Do not raise your voices above the voice of the Prophet (Muhammad). And do not speak aloud to him in talk as you speak aloud to one another so that your (good) deeds do not fail while you are (even) not aware. Indeed those who lower their voices in the presence of Allah's Prophet; Those are whose hearts Allah had tested for piety; For them forgiveness and a great reward.
*because we do not degrade ali(ra) the way you degrade umar (ra) *
Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)
[quote]
According to some traditions Ali ibn abi Talib, Abbas ibn Abd al Muttalib, Abu Sufyan ibn Harith and Abdullah ibn Masud were the only four persons who stayed with the Holy Prophet.
[/quote]
the inclusion of abdullah ibn masud [ra] is questionable , some say it was only banu muttalib sahaba
at any rate the point of mentioning this is that many great sahaba which you also in theory atleast claim to respect] were also cut off from the Prophet [saw] at Hunain.....are u saying that except these 4 sahaba all other companions were cowards ? if not why just single out Umar[ra]
Hunain was a strategically difficult battle in mountain passes and ideal place for ambush plus muslims had become overconfident thats why Quran chided them after battle.
When one companion protested that the Holy Prophet had not done justice in the matter of distributing the spoils of war, some people wanted to kill him, but the Holy Prophet stopped them and said: "Wait. Such people, on their own, one day will go out of the true faith, then the best of men among you will kill him." And that man was killed by Ali in the battle of Nahrawan that was fought between Imam Ali and the damned Muawiya.
firstly many people esp. ansar were not happy with distribution of spoils but they were later won over by the speech of the prophet and cried so much " that our beards became wet" to quote them.All these people were not bad but were pious upright honest muslims.
secondly this man u mention is probably hurqus b zuhair who was killed with khawarij not muawiyah
this is based on one of the many narrations in your own books, degrading the companions in general
secondly do you consider musanaf ibn abi shayba a sunni book a authentic source ?
u accuse me of simply quoting from internet which if i do but always mention the source ]
while u urself are copy pasting from websites