NO u havent but these are the original words of Khalifa Umar bin Khattab. Dont try to take the credit away from him now.
It is related that Ibn 'Abbas said, "When the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, was dying, there were some men in the house which included 'Umar ibn al-Khattab. The Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, ‘Come. Let me write a document for you after which you will never go astray.’ 'Umar said, ‘The Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, is overcome by pain. We have the Qur’an and the Book of Allah is enough for us.’ The people in the house disagreed and quarrelled. Some of them said, ‘Go near so that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, can write a document for you after which you will never go astray.’ Others said what 'Umar said. When there was a lot of noise and disagreement in the presence of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, ‘Leave me!’
[SAHI BUKHARI]
Enlighten us - do you think since the Prophet (saw) couldn't get the message written at that very time because he 'overcome by pain' something went missing in Islam?
The Prophet (saw) did live for 3 days more after this incidence and he did advise the Ummah. Check that out.
Of cousre the 'Book of Allah is enough for us' and this very book orders us all to to follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw)
Enlighten us - do you think since the Prophet (saw) couldn't get the message written at that very time because he 'overcome by pain' something went missing in Islam?
B]
We arent discussing that yet.
We were just onto how clever Khalifa Umar was and what a foresight he enjoyed. He seemed to knew more then the Prophet who is Allah's best creature (Quran calls him Khilq e Azeem). Does Quran not ask the believers to follow the Prophet unconditionally? and Quran also say that the messenger do not speak unless willed by Allah (swt) himself.
Khalifa Umar was known for this. He openly opposed the prophet in the treaty of Hudaybia and tried the others to follow him rather then the prophet. On one another occasion, as reported in Bukhari, he raised his voice over the Prophet and a Quranic verse was reveiled condemning this behaviour,
‘Oh you who believe, do not raise your voice over the Prophet and do not speak loudly to him lest your good deeds should become void while you’re unaware.’ (Al Quran)
People who have been to Medina, Prophet's tomb, will c the above verse engraved over the cover of the grave of khalifa Umar.
Khalifa Umar was known for this. He openly opposed the prophet in the treaty of Hudaybia and tried the others to follow him rather then the prophet. On one another occasion, as reported in Bukhari, he raised his voice over the Prophet and a Quranic verse was reveiled condemning this behaviour,
‘Oh you who believe, do not raise your voice over the Prophet and do not speak loudly to him lest your good deeds should become void while you’re unaware.’ (Al Quran)
People who have been to Medina, Prophet's tomb, will c the above verse engraved over the cover of the grave of khalifa Umar.
he was short tempered no doubt but he had the interests of muslims in mind, if he was such a hypocrite why did he accept islam when muslims were a persecuted minority?
but this hadith also relates to thabit b qays[ra] do you consider him a bad sahabi too ?
he was short tempered no doubt but he had the interests of muslims in mind, if he was such a hypocrite why did he accept islam when muslims were a persecuted minority?
but this hadith also relates to thabit b qays[ra] do you consider him a bad sahabi too ?
I didnt read the whole tread topic is different then discussion rite now,
So assuming u r talkin abt 2nd caliph, y did he accept islam.... i dunno if u remember the story in 2nd grd or not but the story i was told in my skool was that caliph's inetntion was actually to kill Prophet s.a.w but changed his mind later.
The reason of changing mind was lookin at Prophet s.a.w i guess... dunt actually remember.
Lets say if he didnt change his mind ? u think he wud have actually succeeded ? When Shair-e-Khuda Hazrat Hamza a.s and Hazrat Ali a.s were arnd Prophet. ( by arnd i dunt mean that they were arnd on mean time but arnd as in same city,,,, they cud have been arnd the same place too, but i have never heared abt who was with Prophet s.a.w at the time.)
Anyway i guess by now u shld have answer to my question. That Caliph cudnt have done it anyway, so rather than Oppsoing bani hashim who were famous for their bravery he had a better option of joining em and destroying islam later.
Okay one thing aside the topic of discussion and title of topic .... most of ur posts come from history lessons which is different in every sect ... u think u can convince someone telling history lessons ? i mean how sure r u that stories from history lessons u come up with r true ?
I didnt read the whole tread topic is different then discussion rite now,
So assuming u r talkin abt 2nd caliph, y did he accept islam.... i dunno if u remember the story in 2nd grd or not but the story i was told in my skool was that caliph's inetntion was actually to kill Prophet s.a.w but changed his mind later.
The reason of changing mind was lookin at Prophet s.a.w i guess... dunt actually remember.
Lets say if he didnt change his mind ? u think he wud have actually succeeded ? When Shair-e-Khuda Hazrat Hamza a.s and Hazrat Ali a.s were arnd Prophet. ( by arnd i dunt mean that they were arnd on mean time but arnd as in same city,,,, they cud have been arnd the same place too, but i have never heared abt who was with Prophet s.a.w at the time.)
Anyway i guess by now u shld have answer to my question. That Caliph cudnt have done it anyway, so rather than Oppsoing bani hashim who were famous for their bravery he had a better option of joining em and destroying islam later.
Okay one thing aside the topic of discussion and title of topic .... most of ur posts come from history lessons which is different in every sect ... u think u can convince someone telling history lessons ? i mean how sure r u that stories from history lessons u come up with r true ?
brother, Quran clearly tells the believers the importance of obeying Prophet Mohammad and gives them no other option. Yet this Das person comes and says that by disobeying the Prophet Khalifa Umar had "best interests of Muslims in mind". Is Khalifa Umar higher then the word of Allah now? wow!
and the 12ers are bad coz they dont love all the sahabas he says! What does Quran says about the Sahabas? Does it make obligatory for us to love them or follow them? These guys r a waste of time honestly.
brother, Quran clearly tells the believers the importance of obeying Prophet Mohammad and gives them no other option. Yet this Das person comes and says that by disobeying the Prophet Khalifa Umar had "best interests of Muslims in mind". Is Khalifa Umar higher then the word of Allah now? wow!
and the 12ers are bad coz they dont love all the sahabas he says! What does Quran says about the Sahabas? Does it make obligatory for us to love them or follow them? These guys r a waste of time honestly.
did I ever say that umar[ra] are right ? all i said was that he had the best intentions.As he did not want the muslims to be in [what he thought] was a weak position.
secondly many sahaba at times disagreed with prophet[saw] as they could not understand why prophet was taking a particular action. Does it make them all hypocrites ? e.g badri sahabi sa'd b ubadah[ra] disagreeing with Prophet over spoils of Hunain.
And disgreeing with the Prophet or infallible imam makes u a hypocrite than look at history of hasan b Ali[as] when he made peace many of his own supporters great and pious men of high status called him *"one who humiliates the faithful" did hasan call them hypocrites ? no he understood their feelings and that their harsh remarks and disgreement was because of their love of islam.But if umar[ra] disgrees with the Prophet[pbuh] he becomes that most evil/devious person.
And i am not suggesting that umar[ra] was some kind of infallible but if u have to criticize him do it for something valid like his treatment of sa'd b ubadah[ra]
Quran praises highly the good sahaba esp. those who had precedence in conversion , but also those who converted late as message of Islam reached them late.
It criticizes those who remained behind in wars, those who apostasized and those who are the hypocrites yet still called sahaba]*
I didnt read the whole tread topic is different then discussion rite now,
So assuming u r talkin abt 2nd caliph, y did he accept islam.... i dunno if u remember the story in 2nd grd or not but the story i was told in my skool was that caliph's inetntion was actually to kill Prophet s.a.w but changed his mind later.
The reason of changing mind was lookin at Prophet s.a.w i guess... dunt actually remember.
Lets say if he didnt change his mind ? u think he wud have actually succeeded ? When Shair-e-Khuda Hazrat Hamza a.s and Hazrat Ali a.s were arnd Prophet. ( by arnd i dunt mean that they were arnd on mean time but arnd as in same city,,,, they cud have been arnd the same place too, but i have never heared abt who was with Prophet s.a.w at the time.)
Anyway i guess by now u shld have answer to my question. That Caliph cudnt have done it anyway, so rather than Oppsoing bani hashim who were famous for their bravery he had a better option of joining em and destroying islam later.
Okay one thing aside the topic of discussion and title of topic .... most of ur posts come from history lessons which is different in every sect ... u think u can convince someone telling history lessons ?** i mean how sure r u that stories from history lessons u come up with r true** ?
firstly he changed his mind [converted] even before he reached the Prophet[pbuh]
so it was not because he forcibly converted
secondly ur story is farfetched, at that time not even the most optimistic person could have predicted the way islam would be successful , could umar[ra] tell the future ? are u saying he had prophetic visions ?
you are discussing historical personalities and saying that u dont trust history or any historical sources ...i suggest then u join the "Quran only" lobby
... u think u can convince someone telling history lessons ? i mean how sure r u that stories from history lessons u come up with r true ?
my intention is not to "convince " anyone both sunnis and shias just like to believe what they have been born with ....hidayat Allah karta hai, it dosent matter to me what u want to believe in
you are right but unfortunately most of the fellow guppies here either can not see the obvious or are avoiding it intentionally. I guess everytime Khalifa Umar disobeyed the Prophet of Allah, he seemed had “the best intentions in mind as he didnt want to see the Muslims in a weak position”! So Khalifa Umar knew better what would make Muslims weak and the Prophet of Allah perhaps did not!
Below are some more achievements of the Khalifa Umar, all from Saha Sitta, i.e. the most authentic book of hadiths. Enjoy!
Khalifa Umar at it again. Rasool Allah, the Prophet asked for a pen and Dawwat to write something once followed people will never go astray… Umar said the prophet is seriously ill…read the narration in Al-Bukhari
Khalifa Umar Insults Rasool Another Narration where Umar does not fulfill the Prophets final wish! Read it in Sahih Al-Bukhari …this event made Ibn Abbas cry
Khalifa Umar disobeys Rasool Once again the prophet asks the companions to give him a pen and Inkpot to write them his well…and some of the companions say that he is delirious! …Read it in Al-Bukhari
Khalifa Umar Insults Rasool Third narration with the prophet telling his companions that he wants to write his will…but they did not answer his wish … that blames Ibn Abbas for crying…read it in Sahih Muslim
Khalifa Umar watches the wives of the prophet when they go answer the call of nature. After that, the verse of Hijab was revealed! Read the story in Al-Bukhari.
Added Parts in Adhan by Khalifa Umar.. “Assalat-to-Khairunm-Mainan-noum” “Prayer is better than sleep” to the Adhan of Subh… Mash Allah another of Umar’s Bida’…read the narration in Malik’s Muwatta
Zulm on Sahabi Umar threatens to torture a companion because he did not believe his narration… until the youngest in the group proved Khalifa Umar wrong. Read the narration in Sahih Muslim
I will request you all to cool it a little bit. All the information here is common knowledge of anyone who is a history student. Iraq, Afghanistan is under occupation. Palestenians have been kicked out of their own land by the jews. Rest of the Muslim word is too in chaos while the rulers and the royals enjoy great life on the payroll of the zionists.
The petty issues we are arguing over here have been around for over 14 centuries and going over them won't get you anything apart from a very short esteem boost. Lets stop playing electronic scholars and talk about unity. US congress is soon to vote on Resolution 362 which would practically take them to a confrontation with probably the only non-zionist controlled Islamic contry, i.e. Iran.
We are all believers of one Quran and all are lovers of Prophet Mohammad (saww). So my request to all is to ignore the differences and see how much we have in common.
Re: Khalifa Umar(ra) – Split from Praying under influence
Brother Das Reich. I have said it before and I am saying it again. Though I don’t like praising people in front of them, but this time I couldn’t resist. Among the shia friends I have met in my life, you are the best among them, because you don’t take anything for granted, you don’t blindly obey and follow any scholar’s words, but you do your own sincere search for the truth and seek guidance from Quran and Sunnah. Allah has blessed you with strong passion of love in your heart and instead of hating people you try to bridge good relations. Muslims desperately need people like you in present age, who can remove differences and fights among different sects. (Masha’Allah).
May Allah reward you for your efforts for Islam. JazakAllah khair.
Re: Khalifa Umar(ra) -- Split from Praying under influence
On the other hand, I even know people, who seem to spend so much time cursing some of the companions of the Prophet (saw) (because of their few mistakes) that they don't even mind missing few namaz (prayers) for this noble cause because cursing the people seems to them a greater ibadah to them than offering prayers.
May Allah (swt) guide us all to concentrate on our own mistakes then spending energy and time in remembering and cursing people whom ONLY ALLAH WOULD JUDGE on the day of judgment.
It is better to leave even Abu Jehel alone, and fight against the "Fir'on" within ourselves. We wouldn't be asked of others but regarding our own deeds.
Re: Khalifa Umar(ra) -- Split from Praying under influence
pathan bhai , dont jump from topic to topic lets stay at hudaibiyah for some time
need answer to my questions above
secondly i see how bukhari all of a sudden becomes such a authentic source for 12ers just like kafi and nahjul balagah becomes authentic for sunnis] when it comes to disapproving the other party.
pathan bhai , dont jump from topic to topic lets stay at hudaibiyah for some time
need answer to my questions above
secondly i see how bukhari all of a sudden becomes such a authentic source for 12ers just like kafi and nahjul balagah becomes authentic for sunnis] when it comes to disapproving the other party.
pathan bhai , dont jump from topic to topic lets stay at hudaibiyah for some time
need answer to my questions above
secondly i see how bukhari all of a sudden becomes such a authentic source for 12ers just like kafi and nahjul balagah becomes authentic for sunnis] when it comes to disapproving the other party.
Saha sitta book of hadiths got some really terrible narrations that even Salman Rushdie proclaimed in one of his press conference that he took all the information from his father and grandfather’s books which were quoted from and referenced in Siah Sitta all of which have been found to be in these books.
SAha sitta were also the source of info for Tasleema Nasreen from BD and Rajpal from Areya Past Kaleya Lahore Wrote“Rangheela Rasool” (nauzobillah!) and caused huge controvery in 1924. When reprimanded the Court and thus appearance in court, he said that he only took references from Siah Sitta books i.e. authentic Muslim books. Mr Rajpal was killed shortly afterwards (most likely by some extremist).
Re: Khalifa Umar(ra) -- Split from Praying under influence
^I agree that there are objectionable rawayaat in sihah sitta but problem with religious folks like you is that they forget how much BS is written in their own books.
In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)
*Dear Moderator – I am responding to the thread that you had locked up – The thread starter had clearly ‘attacked’ Hz. Umar (ra) and did need a proper response – which I think I have attempted to do.
I hope you don’t mind me addressing the same thread again.*
**Pagluu ** - You and your likes (I know the site where you have got your material from)are like those pathetic Christians who spend their precious time scouring through the Quran and looking for ‘mistakes’ which their hate filled mind see and then create fantastic websites promoting their ‘fantastic discoveries’!
I can make some excuse for you for posting such useless ‘attack’ on Hz. Umar Khattab (ra), the second righteous Khaleef of the Prophet (saw) as your username states the state of your mind.
Hz. Umar Al Khattab (ra) doesn’t need anyone to defend him. Allah (swt) has honoured him despite of you and your hate filled sect.
Browse the Net and you will see how many sites are out there attacking the personality of the Noble Prophet (saw)!!! Does that demean the status of the Prophet (saw)???
So what if 10% to 15% of wayward Muslims attack the great companions of the Prophet (saw).
Check out the following site – it has rebutted all that you had spewed. I hope you have the guts to read it.
“The Shia propagandists make a big fuss over the so-called “incident of the pen and paper” or what they ominously refer to as “Black Thursday”. The Shia exaggerate about the Hadiths on this topic, and use them as some sort of proof against Umar ibn al-Khattab. However, the truth of the matter is that these claims are nothing but the melodramatic antics of the Ghullat gossipers who seek to make a mountain out of an anthill. In this article, we shall examine said event in an objective and reasonable manner, after which we will respond to the Shia accusations.”
I don’t want to stoop to your debased level otherwise I can dig out matter from your books where there are narrations accredited to your imams that would make a hardcore sailor blush!!! I won’t stoop to your level or to that of your likes.
Narrated 'Aisha:
The wives of the Prophet used to go to Al-Manasi, a vast open place (near Baqia at Medina) to answer the call of nature at night. 'Umar used to say to the Prophet “Let your wives be veiled,” but Allah’s Apostle did not do so. One night Sauda bint Zam’a the wife of the Prophet went out at ‘Isha’ time and she was a tall lady. 'Umar addressed her and said, “I have recognized you, O Sauda.” He said so, as he desired eagerly that the verses of Al-Hijab (the observing of veils by the Muslim women) may be revealed. So Allah revealed the verses of “Al-Hijab” (A complete body cover excluding the eyes). Saheeh Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 14
I have quoted the hadith of the link – please show me where is what you are implying? Fear Allah!!!
**By implying that you are implying in fact shows your state of mind. **
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
The Prophet cursed the effeminate men and those women who assume the similitude (manners) of men. He also said, “Turn them out of your houses.” He turned such-and-such person out, and 'Umar also turned out such-and-such person. Saheeh Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 820:
Jumping to conclusions again!!!
What is your filthy imaginative mind trying to imply?
This person at Hz. Umar (ra)’s place could have been his relative, or servant/slave – after the Prophet’s (saw) order this person was turned out – I have quoted the hadith – was Prophet (saw)’s order general or specific to Hz. Umaar (ra)?
**By implying that you are implying in fact shows your state of mind. **
Pagal ullu did you ever hear of AL-NASIKH WA AL-MANSUKH (Abrogated verses)
Read the following:
Do you or likes of you know ‘how adhan came into being’?
Do you have any record of Hz. Ali (ra) or any of your infallible Imams uttering anything against this?
Did Hz. Ali (ra) reject this practice at the time of his Khilafaat? A big NO!
Care to tell us how come Shias utter the following in their adhan - "Ashhadu ana Alian waliullah"
*Suhail reported on the authority of Abu Huraira that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said on the Day of Khaibar: I shall certainly give this standard in the hand of one who loves Allah and his Messenger and Allah will grant victory at his hand. Umar b. Khattab said: Never did I cherish for leadership but on that day. I came before him with the hope that I may be called for this, but Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) called 'Ali b. Abu Talib and he conferred (this honour) upon him and said: Proceed on and do not look about until Allah grants you victory, and 'Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: Allah’s Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people? Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger, and when they do that then their blood and their riches are inviolable from your hands but what is justified by law and their reckoning is with Allah. Book 031, Number 5917: *
Jealous is a wrong word – competitive in good deeds? Yes. Hz. Umar (ra) was one of those who possessed the most zeal to out do others in doing good. That’s the reason the Prophet (saw) called him Al Farouk.
Read the following ayahs of the Noble Quran and note how the Quran encourages Muslims to ‘strive and’ vie with each other’ or ‘race with the other’
*They believe in Allah and the Last Day, and enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency, and vie one with another in good works. These are of the righteous. (Translation PICKTHAL : Quran: 003.114)
They believe in Allah and the last day, and they enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and they strive with one another in hastening to good deeds, and those are among the good. (Translation SHAKIR: Quran: - 003.114)
Race one with another for forgiveness from your Lord and a Garden whereof the breadth is as the breadth of the heavens and the earth, which is in store for those who believe in Allah and His messengers. Such is the bounty of Allah, which He bestoweth upon whom He will, and Allah is of Infinite Bounty. 57:21*
**Pagluu **you can curse and abuse Hz. Omar (ra) to your hearts contend – it makes no difference
Allah (swt) has honoured Hz. Umar (ra) in this life by Companionship of the Prophet (saw).
And in death he is buried next to the Prophet (saw) – All of billions of Muslims who have came and will be coming till day of Qiyamat to pay their homage and respects to the Prophet (saw)will be doing the same to Hz. Umar (ra).
This is a great honour but if only your hate filled mind/eyes could see.
In hereafter his reward is with Allah (saw) – you worry about yourself!!!
**Pagluu **
Read the following;
…So Ali bin Abi-Talib started writing the treaty between them. He wrote, “This is what Muhammad, Apostle of Allah has agreed to.” The (Meccans) said, “If we knew that you (Muhammad) are the Apostle of Allah, then we would not have prevented you and would have followed you. But write, ‘This is what Muhammad bin Abdullah has agreed to..’” On that Allah’s Apostle said, “By Allah, I am Muhammad bin Abdullah, and, by Allah, I am Apostle of Allah.” Allah’s Apostle used not to write, so he asked Ali to erase the expression of “Apostle of Allah”. On that Ali said, “By Allah, I will never erase it!” Allah’s Apostle said (to Ali), “Let me see the paper.” When Ali showed him the paper, the Prophet erased the expression with his own hand. Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 408:
Perhaps the knee-jerk reaction of the e-Shia would be to deny this narration; to deal with such a claim, we refer the reader to a source considered very reliable to the Shia. **Shaykh Mufid, the eminent Shia scholar **of the tenth century, writes:
Other things connected with (the expedition to) al-Hudaybiyya are (as follows): When Suhayl ibn Amir saw them and came towards their position, he begged the Prophet for peace. Inspiration came down on the Prophet in answer to that, and that he should make the Commander of the Faithful (Ali) his writer on that day and the one who would take down the peace treaty in his handwriting.
The Prophet said to him: “Ali, write down: In the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate.”
“This is something which is being written between us and you, Muhammad,” Suhayl ibn Amir intervened. “Therefore begin with something which we accept and write: ‘In your name, O God.’”
The Prophet said to the Commander of the Faithful: “Remove what you have written and write: ‘In your name, O God.’”
“If it was not for the fact that I obey you, O Apostle of Allah, I would not remove: ‘In the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate,’” the Commander of the Faithful replied. Then he removed it and wrote: “In your name, O God.”
Then the Prophet told him: “Write: This is what the Apostle of Allah and Suhayl ibn Amir have agreed upon.”
However, Suhayl ibn Amir again intervened, saying: “If I accepted this description of you in this document which being made between us, I would have admitted Prophethood to you; otherwise by agreeing to that I would be witnessing against myself or at least expressing with my tongue. Remove this name and write: ‘This is what Muhammad ibn Abdullah has agreed upon.’”
“Indeed, by Allah, he is truly the Apostle of Allah despite your arrogance,” said the Commander of the Faithful (Ali).
“Write his name as the condition which must be carried out,” retorted Suhayl.
“Suhayl, woe on you, cease from your obstinate behavior,” the Commander of the Faithful said to him.
“Remove it, Ali!” the Prophet ordered him.
“Apostle of Allah,” he said, “my hand will not move to remove your name from association with Prophethood.” (Kitab al-Irshad, by Shaykh Mufid, p.81)
Now do you agree the Hz. Ali (ra) refused to obey the command of the Prophet (saw)? I know the reason why he did it!