Khalifa Umar(ra) -- Split from Praying under influence

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)

I dont know how someone can even think that Umar (RA) and Siddique (RA) were bad people. Numerous hadith support the greatness of both of them. The stuff they did for Islam and Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) at that time is beyond belief. And last but not least if they were both this bad, would they have the chance to be burried right next to the prophet?? Whoever undermines both of these great Sahaba (or any other Sahaba) is wrong no matter how many proofs they can get. These people are asking for great punishment from Allah because of what they say.

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Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)

I dont have time to read through all this total rubbish that people are saying against Umar bin Khattab radi Allahu anhu. Of course he was HUMAN and hence able to make mistakes just like everyone else obviously -BUT he was also one of the ten companions who were given the glad tidings of JANNAH in their lifetime by the Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam, and on another occasion was even called a shaheed by the Prophet (in addition to Uthman bin Affan radi Allahu anhu). If you study his life, you will love him, as millions and millions of Muslims have loved him, and as the Prophet himself loved him

**So to anyone who needs to waste their time bad mouthing Umar ---why dont you show us your own stamped entry ticket to Jannah FIRST and THEN talk. **Because unless you are also promised Jannah as he was, then you really need to get your priorities set straight! Allah will not ask you what Umar did, He will ask you about what YOU did, so why not spend your time actually doing something beneficial and working for your own ticket to Jannah!

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What do you know about the Quran and sunnah ? as the men/women you admire openly violated both of them and were enemies of the followers of sunnah.You claim to defend the sahaba in reality all you want is to hide the crimes of the kings/princes who replaced sunnah with Bidah.Yet people like you are so blinded by worldly wealth and greed that you go to extreme lenghts to justify the crimes of these rulers even if it means compromising the faith.

You are either a androgenous teenager if thats the case atleast you have religious zeal even if misguided] or a infidel and enemy of the Prophet[pbuh] posing as a muslim.

at any rate I dont want to derail this thread which was started by brother ibn sadique to clear up misconceptions regarding sayyidna Umar[ra] and to expose some of the tricks of the 12ers by which they misinterpret the historical events of his life to make him look bad. Although I must say I dont agree at all with the argumentation given at the website www.ahlebayt.com

I consider the following a better summary of the merits of umar b khattab [ra]

http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=umar%20ninowy&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#

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Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)

{edited : No need to write rude comments }

I'll wait till you get done with the name calling and mud slinging.

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Jazakallah Ibne Sadique - That was a good job - I agree with you that Islam can only be followed by adhereing to the commands of the Quran and Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) - History books just record the events and everyone has is own version of history spiced up to meet the requirements

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Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)

There are no Shia or Sunni tawareekh. Ibne Kaseer (kathir), Ibn Hisham, Tabari, Masudi, Al Sayuti etc.

What thing you're not looking forward to tomorrow
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Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)

The tareekhs are not sunni or shia, but the narrators who form the chain are definitely shia or sunni.

And the methodology for documenting tareekh is not as rigid as the methodology of documenting hadith. And this is because tareekh is not meant for providing you the two most important aspects of the Deen...Aqeedah and Fiqh.

Hence the historians were lenient, and were more concerned with documenting narrations rather than differentiating between what was authentic and what wasn't.

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My dear brother: The above hadith is completly lie: becuase those hadith which condridict Quran and lie,,

Bring Evidence from Quran about this hadith:

You already know that Mubahila already cleared the relationship of Imam Ali (as) , more over there are loads of hadith where Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) said that Ali is to me like "Moses and Haron"..

SO you are happy just for nothing,

Go and study more,,,,, It was umer who burned Fatima(as) house and It was umer who stoped Mohammad(pbuh) to write the will ,,

This is not such thing which i am qouting from Shia books,, it is fact which is avaiable in your books,,,

now its upto you , declare your books wrong and keep your sefl happy to read ur statement "UMER AS POSSIBLE Prophet (ALLAH FORBID)..

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Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)

brother the same can be said about your hadeeths rite? your being very bias, your own statements also contradict the quran... for the sake of reasoning please provide the verse which contradicts the hadeeth stated
jazakAllah

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Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)

theres a difference between umer (ra) being a possible prophet (allah forbid) and the prophet declaring the rutba of umer to the ignorants:)

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Peace healtymind

Umar (RA) is not even here to defend himself of these allegations. Why can you not leave it to Allah (SWT) to judge? As far as my stance is concerned I will rather call a murderer an angel than call a pious man a demon. For my on benefit that I am called to account for accusing people of evil without knowledge.

And truly having history of an event is not real knowledge of it, it is just a glimpse at an opinion of it.

So my advice to you is you need to start treating everyone nicely and let Allah (SWT) judge the people.

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Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)

I have a question.

Why do shias pick out certain hadiths from sahih bukhari, and then in the end reject other hadiths from sahih bukhari?

Makes no sense, you're not putting faith in the book, you're just picking and choosing.

Im telling you healthymind, bro you need to stop wasting time, and focus on other things on hands. We have bigger problems at hand, and here we are discussing things which we cant judge.

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No...ITS YOU WHO NEEDS TO PROVE that this hadith goes against the Quran.

Post the Ayaah which is being contradicted by this hadith.

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All of that is not gonna change ANYTHING!

Umar will remain UMAR, may Allah be pleased with him. While you continue to be the the liar and hypocrite that you are!

The mere facts that Abu Bakr and Umar preceded Ali (rah) in Khilafah and their prestigous place of burial...is enough proof for all that these two men were the best in the Ummah of Muhammad (sas).

Ali (rah) stands behind them in line.

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:salam:

Bro, Don’t get emotional in your words. I know your trying reply to HM but don’t let his talk lead you into categorizing the Ashaba just as they themselves do. All of the Khailifa’s i.e. Abu Bakr RA, Umar RA, Uthman RA and Ali RA are the best of the ummah and we are not in a position to judge between them. So no one stands behind anyone in line. They are all equally respectable and loved by us.

CAKE
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WalaykumSalaam

I agree. All four khleef were the best.

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umar (ra) is not even here to defend hiself? lol and everyone else is rite? when people call prophet muhammed(saw) a terrorrist (in'audubillah) does prohet muhammed (saw) be here to defend hiself? thats such a ignorant remark!

one thing I do NOT understand is why shia people always degrade our first three khalifas while sunni never critisize ali(ra) but instead he is very dear to us..... whats the logic behind that?

*and.... do NOT use the verses of quran out of context,.. otherwise you'll be just as ignorant as those who picked verses from surah tauba out of context and said that Allah(swt) told muslims to kill a non-muslim were ever they find one! *

no offence bro....

wa'salaam

p.s indeed we have left it to Allah to do justice with prophet muhammed (saw)'s dear companions. its YOU people who keep on accusing him.

wa'salaam

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Aik do logon ki baaton ke peechay kiyon saaray shias ko badnaam kar rahii hain bibi? All Shias do NOT speak ill of the forst 3 khalifas nor are they as obsessed with this issue.

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im pleased to hear:)

wa'salaam

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[quote]
The tareekhs are not sunni or shia, but the narrators who form the chain are definitely shia or sunni.
[/quote]

maybe with shia or sunni leaning but not in the present sense
and simply being shia or sunni does not automatically disqualify someone.

[quote]

And the methodology for documenting tareekh is not as rigid as the methodology of documenting hadith. And this is because tareekh is not meant for providing you the two most important aspects of the Deen...Aqeedah and Fiqh.

[/quote]

it depends , different narrations have varying strenghts or weaknesses
furthermore there are many overlaps between hadith and tarikh.
Hadith on historical aspects found in hadith books are simply abridged versions of bigger narrations found in tareekh books.
if hadith books alone were sufficent there was no need for scholars to write such big volumes on tarikh

[quote]
Hence the historians were lenient, and were more concerned with documenting narrations rather than differentiating between what was authentic and what wasn't
[/quote]

many hadith compilers are similarly lenient or biased.
reason that sunni muhadith criticize tareekh is because it brings into discussion intra-sahaba conflict. Similarly shia hadith compliers have also discredited most history as it provides little proof for their theory of imamate.Historians by and large are more unbiased than hadith compliers as they dont primarily compile events to satisfy a particular sectarian agenda.Furthermore history books are indispensible for rijal without which hadith grading is impossible.

12ers rely on history ONLY as long as it favor them , sunnis rely on hadith as long as it favors them.
Each one is willing to discredit the other by using the same sources.