Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

*Fraudia -- uh thanks for that mind opening essay. I am not defending the guy, but not to be rude or anything but if his poem was idiotic your cutting up of it was more so. *

And your getting bent out of shape about it infintely more so :) but that is no surpise really.

*But I guess you were bored out of your wits, so needed to do something enlightening :p *

Name one thing in my statements in response to that poem that is incorrect. And why do you have to respond here, on a retainer from the beard alliance or something :P

*( ps was the rage comment towards me? If so you're greatly mistaken. Allah is the final judge, and I dont see any reason in being angry towards you. I have a lovely temper but I shall reserve it for the right time and the right person. ) *

err no it was not towards me, short attention span here i suppose, if you recall we were talking about the "rage" of the gentlemen in question.

P.S. Please remind me next time to explain every sentence I write and state the obvious.

*--- Beard is sunnah not farz. *

Even if it is sunnah is not required. There are many other sunnahs that people dont follow :)

[gupguppy]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

@Faisal

I don’t want to demean the discussion by talking … farz is something that Allah Ta’llah has explicitly commanded the muslims to do in the Quran. Anything else can not be farz.

So something ordered by the Prophet (saw) can never be taken as farz!? What then do we call the obligatory commands of the Prophet (saw)?

Anyway, the questions was: “what here is the difference between wajib and farz?”

In other words, in the context of the earlier answer what’s the difference or meaning of the statements…

“It is wajib to keep a beard”

“It is farz to keep a beard”

[Muslim_Queen]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

Fraudia jee--- its so very kind of you to explain each and evey sentence of yours. And Im so glad you understand me oh so well. But I guess you dont like people contradicting you. Me bent out of shape - no jee I enjoy debates. People just cant accept that they might be in the wrong - I have trouble with it myself - but its alright I understand what you're going through.

Its not about what might have been "wrong" in what you said , but more so of "how" you said it.

yes you can prove the guy wrong (the poet here) a million times over, but just the way you did it was in my view- insulting. Why? because you generalized to no extent. How? Let me quote you

oh nice...lets store food in a beard.. what kind of an ass clown statement is this? and i guess people who dont have beard can stroke their chin if they really want to when they are pondering, based on this dude's last sentence in the poem, i doubt its his beard that he strokes when he "ponders"

Your above comment was anything but criticism. It was not exactly polite.

ps if people do not follow one sunnah it does not mean its not sunnah. And loads of Muslims pick and choose what they wish to follow - so it still does not change what is in the religion itself.

:)

[Wise_One]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

i think muslims queen has a point here.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

*Fraudia jee--- its so very kind of you to explain each and evey sentence of yours. And Im so glad you understand me oh so well. But I guess you dont like people contradicting you. *

Quite the contrary, if you can assume that my "boredome" led to this post, I can assume that you are getting bent out of shape, after all you are responding here so the part about not likign if people contradict..applies to you to if it applies to me :)

and where have you contradicted me, all you have issues with is how I have stated it, which is fine. I dont expect every living being to agree with my aproach, however you can not contradict what i wrote because its true :)

Me bent out of shape - no jee I enjoy debates. People just cant accept that they might be in the wrong - I have trouble with it myself - but its alright I understand what you're going through.

so you know what one goes thru when the reader reads the whole thing and assumes that it applies to them :) like when you said * ps was the rage comment towards me? * wonder why you even thought so.

Its not about what might have been "wrong" in what you said , but more so of "how" you said it.

and "how" he said it was alright? just because he is a damn mullah :)

*yes you can prove the guy wrong (the poet here) a million times over, but just the way you did it was in my view- insulting. Why? because you generalized to no extent. *

strange since you dont seem to have an issue with the "insulting" tone of the poem, and genaralizing there that kuffar had no beards blah blah blah

*How? Let me quote you *

okay lets hear it

oh nice...lets store food in a beard.. what kind of an ass clown statement is this? and i guess people who dont have beard can stroke their chin if they really want to when they are pondering, based on this dude's last sentence in the poem, i doubt its his beard that he strokes when he "ponders"

*Your above comment was anything but criticism. It was not exactly polite. *

but accurate, and to the point, ever heard of sarcasm, or do they ban that as soon as one oins teh MSA clan :P

**ps if people do not follow one sunnah it does not mean its not sunnah. And loads of Muslims pick and choose what they wish to follow - so it still does not change what is in the religion itself.

:)**

Okay jee, you can keep your beard :) you can store food, little critters, and writing instruments in it for all I care

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

@Wise One

i think muslims queen has a point here.

I think she just wants to defend her mullah brethren

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

@Muslim_Queen

Me bent out of shape - no jee I enjoy debates.

Your above comment was anything but criticism. It was not exactly polite.

for all the preaching you do for impolite comments lets see your own comments

directed to PA

Im glad that I can help you expand the 5 year old category of your intellect.

[Muslim_Queen]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

@Fraudz

Quite the contrary, if you can assume that my “boredome” led to this post, I can assume that you are getting bent out of shape, after all you are responding here so the part about not likign if people contradict..applies to you to if it applies to me

But ofcourse. Im responding to you because I want to. Is there something wrong with that? Can one only respond if one is angry or emotional? If so then everyone on gs must be bent out of shape everytime they reply to a post.

@Fraudz

and where have you contradicted me, all you have issues with is how I have stated it, which is fine. I dont expect every living being to agree with my aproach, however you can not contradict what i wrote because its true

Ofcourse I can contradict you. In fact I can contradict you even when you are right - being wrong seems to be the case here.

@Fraudz

so you know what one goes thru when the reader reads the whole thing and assumes that it applies to them like when you said * ps was the rage comment towards me? * wonder why you even thought so.

Yes I guess some people do not know the art of proper communication.

@Fraudz

and “how” he said it was alright? just because he is a damn mullah :).

I dont think he is a mullah. Last I read he was a student at uni with a beard. You’re implying that all guys with beards are damn mullahs?

@Fraudz

strange since you dont seem to have an issue with the “insulting” tone of the poem, and genaralizing there that kuffar had no beards blah blah blah

The guy wrote it when he was in an extreme emotional condition. It is his poem. If he writes something out of anger , it doesnt mean everyone should jump up and follow him. That is what Im stating here. Never said he was right.

@Fraudz

okay lets hear it

but accurate, and to the point, ever heard of sarcasm, or do they ban that as soon as one oins teh MSA clan

Sarcasm is still quite different from an insult. Plus you said your comments were criticism. Unless you changed your mind?

@Fraudz

Okay jee, you can keep your beard you can store food, little critters, and writing instruments in it for all I care

Unfortunately Im not a guy. But I have no problem with those who do keep beards. Never saw one used as a waste bin - in fact its quite well taken care of.

ps. I will defend anybody who I see fit to be defended. Be it a Muslim or a Kafir.

as for PA his comment was :
so how about the ruling that the beard has to be a fistfull? what would those without generous facial hair have to do? or are they exempt due to this ‘pulled-out-of-behind’ disabled analogy of yours?

I have a hard time forgiving crudeness. tata.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

Ammarr in his infinite widom wrote

**Fraudz,

wow.. you made quite an idiot of yourself there.. allow me to expand:**

allow you to become a bigger idiot you mean

Poems are meant to convey a wider message.. they are generally not disected literally word by word. This guy obviously wants to get something across about the beauty of a beard even though the rest of the world may oppose it.

they are not dissected, and who are you william wordsworth? of course poems that are supposed to convey a message are dissected to see how or how well they are doing the job. And this sucked.

This the first freakin time in your life that you’ve heard a joke.. it was a humurous comment which a clown ass such as yourself could not comprehend..

no everytime i hear people like you speak I am ROTFL stitches

**The arab shaykhs that you talk about may have goatees.. not beards..
And did you reat what he said? “All the pious have beards” **

And the goatee is a type of mustache? and do all arab shaykhs have goatees?
does fidel have a goatee? does daniel pipes have a goatee?

pious → (implies) beard
implies? how so?
he did not say:
beard → (implies) pious

he made a connection between beard and piety, which is weak at best. do all pious people have beards? are all people who have beards, pious?

the answer is a “no” in each case…live with it

**
samajh lagee? or are you not well versed in basic discrete theory?**

if you make sense i might understand. cool down man, noone wants you to burst a vein.

**
Do you know the difference between something being messy and something being unclean?? My room is very messy.. it may have books and clothes scattered.. but it aint dirty.. no sticky goeey flithy stuff.. dirty dishes etc.. Someone with messy/fluffy/curly hair wouldn’t be called “unhygenic” so why do you have a problem with the beard? **

chanda…thank you for telling us that you cant keep your room clean here is some advise..organize what you have, store what you are not using on a daily basis, purge items that you have not used in some time. keep the place clean and organized. after all safai nisf imaan hai

kher..messy..disheveled, ill-kempt, raunchy, slipshod, sloppy, unfastidious, unkempt, unneat, untidy ..whatever..it is not the same as clean, it may not be the same as unhygienic, but its not the same as clean.

and it was not unhygienic because it was messy, but because he had food in it

anyways what is the ruling on keeping your apperance and clothing etc proper and clean?

Are you really this slow..? He is simply saying that even though the females in this life might find his beard amusing, his purpose is not to be a hotshot in this life, but to please Allah, and achieve the hereafter…

yeah yeah, but he could have written that his final destination is by hoz e kauser or in the gardens of heaven, but he had to mention houris

and the purpose is to be a hotshot in this life too, Islam tells us to strike a balance, do well in both this world and the hereafter, that is why you should not become a monk.

**Now, why did i say you made an idiot out of yourself? Because, however weak this guy’s logic may be, he is actually praising an established sunnah of the Prophet.. There are no disagreements on this amongst any muslim
scholars/sects/what not. **

why did you say that I mad an idiot out of muself? hmmm because you are rude?

and you are completely not understanding that the issue is not about the beard at all, it is about the moronic poem.

**Every generation since then has accepted that a beard is nevertheless a sunnah of the Prohpet… he’s actually praising that.. while you’re just putting it down.. makes you an idiot in my eyes. **

ahhh and yet again you assume again that this is about the beard.. it is about his poem first and about the fact that the guy cant groom his beard

i guess he forgot the * established * wording about grooming oneself.

**By the by, i dont want to debate with you much more.. since i know you’ve never (atleast on gs) said that you made a mistake or you were wrong.. **

Incorrect, I have admitted many times over that I may be incorrect, when I am incorrect or dont have enough knowldge on a subject.

**i’m assuming you believe you are always correct.. **

I can assume you are batman, but that does not make it a fact

The last part of the following statement by one of the muslim salaf suits you well:**

challo ji lets see..

**
"I have four kinds of days:
(1) A day when I go out and meet someone more
knowledgeable than me, so I learn from him,
and that is the day of my benefit and profit.
(2) A day when I go out and meet someone less
knowledgeable than me, so I teach him,
and that the day of my reward.
(3) A day when I go out and meet someone like
me and I study and review with him, and that
is the day of my lesson.
(4) A day when I go out and meet someone below
my level but he sees himself as being above my
level, so I don’t talk to him, and I make that
the day for my rest."

• Ibraaheem An-Nakha’ee

:tata:**

okay so I am below your level I dont carry the franklin quote diary, but think there is something written about only Allah knowing who is better. Oh well..

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

** But ofcourse. Im responding to you because I want to. Is there something wrong with that? Can one only respond if one is angry or emotional? If so then everyone on gs must be bent out of shape everytime they reply to a post. **

No not at all, but some people tend to get too emotional. Like you somehow thought i was referrign to your "rage" ... not thatI noticed any, while the topic was evaluating the "poet's" rage...

*Ofcourse I can contradict you. In fact I can contradict you even when you are right - being wrong seems to be the case here. *

seems to be? ho so
should one not properly groom himself
are all people with beards good people
do we know for a fact that all prophets had beards
do we know for a fact that all kuffar were clean shaven

prove me wrong and I will gladly accept.

Yes I guess some people do not know the art of proper communication.

but you are learning the art ..and that is good.

I dont think he is a mullah. Last I read he was a student at uni with a beard. You're implying that all guys with beards are damn mullahs?

no I am implying that the poet in question is a damn mullah, not based on his beard but the lame stuff he considers a poem :)

The guy wrote it when he was in an extreme emotional condition. It is his poem. If he writes something out of anger , it doesnt mean everyone should jump up and follow him. That is what Im stating here. Never said he was right.

So, he wrote it in whatever state of mind, and then he shared it, when you share it, you will get people who will agree with the content and delivery of the poem and those that wont be.

*Sarcasm is still quite different from an insult. Plus you said your comments were criticism. Unless you changed your mind? *

criticism could be done in a sarcastic way. Since when did they become mutually exclusive.

*Unfortunately Im not a guy. But I have no problem with those who do keep beards. Never saw one used as a waste bin - in fact its quite well taken care of. *

So you agree that most people with beards keep them properly groomed and clean, and those who do not should?

as for PA his comment was :
**so how about the ruling that the beard has to be a fistfull? what would those without generous facial hair have to do? or are they exempt due to this 'pulled-out-of-behind' disabled analogy of yours?

I have a hard time forgiving crudeness. tata.

and so in response to his "crudeness" you had to be insulting? and then you have an issue when you incorrectly think that i am insulting towards a poem that I find "crude"

[Muslim_Queen]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

@Fraudz

No not at all, but some people tend to get too emotional. Like you somehow thought i was referrign to your “rage” … not thatI noticed any, while the topic was evaluating the “poet’s” rage…

My mistake. But I honestly do not start fuming when I take part in debates. Nobody is forcing me to read or post right? Its my choice, therefore I am responsible partly for my attitude. The rest ofcourse depends on who Im debating with.

@Fraudz

seems to be? ho so
should one not properly groom himself
are all people with beards good people
do we know for a fact that all prophets had beards
do we know for a fact that all kuffar were clean shaven

prove me wrong and I will gladly accept.

Oh but you see the guy never said a beard should be a mess. In fact Ive searched high and low, nowhere is he saying one must keep his beard messy.I think hes pointing out that making fun of a beard that was accidently/momentarily messy is wrong. I guess you’re reading deeper into it. But perhaps the guy is also talking about tact?

@Fraudz

but you are learning the art ..and that is good.

yes and Im teaching it to you too, thats excellent.

@Fraudz

no I am implying that the poet in question is a damn mullah, not based on his beard but the lame stuff he considers a poem

Mullahs are those who write “lame poems”. Arey I dont even know where this mullah word came from but why do you use it in terms of “idiot”? Or something along those lines? A maulana is a religious scholar. This guy obviously is not. The word mullah should be banned from gs.

@Fraudz

So, he wrote it in whatever state of mind, and then he shared it, when you share it, you will get people who will agree with the content and delivery of the poem and those that wont be.

Agree or disagree, ofcourse I dont mind. In fact its mroe interesting when people disagree, that way one can learn the other side of the situation! But I would expect the person who disagrees - to do so in a polite/friendly/ and respectable manner.

@Fraudz

criticism could be done in a sarcastic way. Since when did they become mutually exclusive.

Sarcasm is used to ridicule another, criticism is used evaluate a piece of writing or whatever it is being criticised. So I believe.

@Fraudz

So you agree that most people with beards keep them properly groomed and clean, and those who do not should?

Ofcourse. But dont tell me that you’re squeaky clean when you’re in the middle of eating. Know that age old tv commercial where the guy has spinach stuck in his teeth?

@Fraudz

and so in response to his “crudeness” you had to be insulting? and then you have an issue when you incorrectly think that i am insulting towards a poem that I find “crude”

He was crude, I was not crude. I was rude. I mean fine he can make a comment, but did he have to be so low about it? The poem was not crude it was jumbled emotions.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

My mistake. But I honestly do not start fuming when I take part in debates. Nobody is forcing me to read or post right? Its my choice, therefore I am responsible partly for my attitude. The rest ofcourse depends on who Im debating with.

okay good, so u are not fuming, that is great. otherwise things get heated up for no reason.

Oh but you see the guy never said a beard should be a mess. In fact Ive searched high and low, nowhere is he saying one must keep his beard messy.I think hes pointing out that making fun of a beard that was accidently/momentarily messy is wrong. I guess you're reading deeper into it. But perhaps the guy is also talking about tact?

perhaps the guy is talking about tact.. i dont know, but then he loses all tact in his poem. He refers to his beard as messy himself, so he admits that it is messy, the momentary part may have been about the food stuck in the beard, which says something him learning to eat properly and to clean his beard as stuff gets stuck in it.

*yes and Im teaching it to you too, thats excellent. :D *

I am always open to learning, ofcourse one has to communicate with diff people in diff ways, as I meet more people I learn to communicate with them, its an ever present ongoing process.

**
Mullahs are those who write "lame poems". Arey I dont even know where this mullah word came from but why do you use it in terms of "idiot"? Or something along those lines? A maulana is a religious scholar. This guy obviously is not. The word mullah should be banned from gs. **

I dont know where this word came from either, i think at one time the term mullah was a term of respect for religious figures, but then it got twisted because some people who used this title were just not worthy and over time the word became a caricature of itself.

now as far as Maulana goes, you may want to read my previous posts on this subject. Maulana as a title should not be used by anyone. They can use imaam, sheikh, whatever but the word maulana..anyways thats a tangent, we can discuss it in the particular thread dealing with that topic.

Agree or disagree, ofcourse I dont mind. In fact its mroe interesting when people disagree, that way one can learn the other side of the situation! But I would expect the person who disagrees - to do so in a polite/friendly/ and respectable manner.

sure, but how do you expect someone to respond in a polite, friendlt and respectable manner if you are going to attack them right away. You may notice, I respond to people how they approach me, which I suppose is not the most productive way to have a discussion, but if you go back and read this thread you may see what I mean, and I am not just referring to your post.

*Sarcasm is used to ridicule another, criticism is used evaluate a piece of writing or whatever it is being criticised. So I believe. *

but cricism can be delivered via humour, sarcasm, blunt harsh opposition whatever. Now if you go and look at some great TV shows that deliver criticism using sarcasm as a delivery channel, check jon stewarts show, or in Pakistan anwar maqsood's studio 2.5 and studio 2.75 etc.

*Ofcourse. But dont tell me that you're squeaky clean when you're in the middle of eating. Know that age old tv commercial where the guy has spinach stuck in his teeth? :p *

I have had a beard and have never been in a situation where there is food stuck in my beard. and indeed my face gets messy sometimes especially when I am eating BBQ ribs or something messy, however in that case I would wipe my mouth and face more often..almost after every bite or so. and yes people have laughed at me..and I joined in their laughter realizing that I had bbq sauce on my chin. I did not go and write poems about it .

He was crude, I was not crude. I was rude. I mean fine he can make a comment, but did he have to be so low about it? The poem was not crude it was jumbled emotions.

crude is wrong, but rude is not right either. I have responded the the rude posts of another gentlemen in a rude manner, him and I are both wrong in how we have chosen to address one another. but just because one talks to you in an incorrect manner does not mean that when you respond in an incorrect manner it is right. hey maybe its tit for tat, but it does not make being rude okay :) just like my response to ammar, although was a tit for tat, was rude.

[PakistaniAbroad]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

@Muslim_Queen

PA — Beard is sunnah not farz. So Im sure that if a guy is unable to grow a beard that is not a whole fist- its alright.

oh so now suddenly the beard isn’t all that necessary? why do we have such a ruling then if it doesn’t pass the test of being fair and equitable to all?

The fact that he tried or wants to grow it is enough. If by nature it cant be done, so be it.

and that is what?/ another pulled-out-of-behind-fatwa or does it have some basis in the prevalent ‘majority opinion’ which everyone is so enamored with?

I honestly do not know why such a ridiculous question needs to be asked in the first place. But Im glad that I can help you expand the 5 year old category of your intellect.

afraid of being questioned? then stop defending such irrelevant issues like faical hair etc which have literally no bearing on one’s Iman and one’s quality of Islam.

[thelostemperor]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

@PakistaniAbroad

oh so now suddenly the beard isn’t all that necessary? why do we have such a ruling then if it doesn’t pass the test of being fair and equitable to all?

There are many rulings which cannot be followed by certain individuals, like some people are exempted from jihad in certain cases like blind people, now it will be stupidity to argue aginst some hukum kion kay that can not be followed by few individuals

afraid of being questioned? then stop defending such irrelevant issues like faical hair etc which have literally no bearing on one’s Iman and one’s quality of Islam.

Who said that facial following sunnah / beared being one has no effect on ones eeman, bhai mian it is ijmah of muslims scholars that making fun of any sunnah is kuffar ..
MAking your apperence as similar to that of prophet :saw: will increase your eeman any keep you away from sins..

Ajeeb si baat hay —women favouring beared and men (some) are aginst it.

BTW as far as i have heared , beared is wajib because it is a sunnat e mutawatirah of all prophets, no prophet has ever shaved his beared.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

yo yo yo yo, I am not opposing a beard. its between a man and god, if you have decided after reading that you should grow a beard, more power to you. if someone decides that he does not want to grow a beard, that again is his business and between him and God.

But people who grow beard, should keep them clean, just like people who are not kojack bald, need to groom their hair, and make sure it looks decent.

Tomorrow, if someone sees a lady with a hijab that is dirty and tells her to wash it, the person is not against the hijab, but is in favour of being saaf suthraa i,e, neat and clean.

[Seminole]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

@thelostemperor

BTW as far as i have heared , beared is wajib because it is a sunnat e mutawatirah of all prophets, no prophet has ever shaved his beared.

Where does one get this kind of information? I mean after all there were over 100,000 prophets. Is there some supplement to the Quran I don’t know about that lists all the prophets’ grooming habits? And has it dawned to anyone else that if Muhammed lived in an age of plentiful hot running water, shaving cream and the Mach3Turbo, that he too may have shaved his beard? Or that 7th century Arabian culture dicated his shaving habits and not a mandate from God? Or that “making your apperence as similar to that of prophet” has absolutely nothing to do with pleasing God or living the right life?

[fayax]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

yeah lets all grow a beard. ....even the women.

[CheGuvera]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

@humhaipakistani

ok i got a question. What about people who because of their ethnicity or other reasons can’t grow a full beard. Would implants be recommended? Just so they don’t feel lesser muslims? Whats the ruling on that?

The ruling on that is if you can’t grow a beard, wear a hijab…

[Wise_One]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

ok is it just me or the discussion has gone dizzy!

[Cher]

Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???

@Fraudz

I think she just wants to defend her mullah brethren

Sher probably has a fist full of beard herself.