Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
Yeah, you are right, in order to get respect from the others, men and women BOTH have to grow beard Wherever they can.
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
blah blah blah. The only one who makes sense here is Fraudz. The poem is utter garbage and puts across a completely wrong message. There is nothing bad about a beard, and there is nothing bad about being clean-shaven either.
The prophet only recommended to others to grow a beard. Its not mandatory, otherwise show me an ayah from the Quran. And the ONLY reason why it is suggested is because the Prophet wanted to use it to mark Muslims out of the crowd. It was supposed to be an identifying mark. This was a strategy employed to enhance unity among the muslim ummah at the time. MInd you the ummah was a small one. If the Prophet was alive today, would his wisdom tell him to employ the same method? Its hard to say, but he did make his policies according to the conditions of the time.
This is very obvious to the differences in his Early years as a prophet and in his later years when the Ummah was growing larger. The man was flexible, and somehow all these beard-mongers forgot to pick up that as a trait to incorporate into their personalities.
Today, as Fraudz has mentioned, beards are donned by all kinds of men - evil and good. It might still symbolize piety, but there are more than enough counter-examples. Furthermore, you can see in our own media that a beard is fast becoming a symbol of fraudulent men. One could just write a college thesis on this phenomenon, however, I would only advise it for fashion majors since the whole subject is so worthless to discuss in the first place.
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
Hmmm... well, its ok to have an opinion one way or the other on how necessary it is to have beard (for muslim men), but its quite another to hypothize on why it was suggested and then trash your own hypothesis to prove a point. :)
The dude in the original post had a beard, and he is very defensive about his beard. More power to him. He wrote a mediocre piece of poetry about it. Thats his prerogative too. Those who don't like the poetry made their point known as well. Thats whats called freedom of opinion. However, none of that takes away the point that it is, infact, recommended for muslim men to have beard. Now, one can slice the argument in a number of different ways to suggest that beards are no longer required or whatever, I think they just want to convince themselves.
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
"no longer required". You fall in the trap of self-contradiction. You say it is recommended for men to have the beard then talk about the discussion of whether they are "no longer required".
They were never required. But many put their points across as if they were required.
I never said that beards are no longer required. I merely thru out a point that it is quite possible that the original intention of the beard may not really help unify the muslim ummah as it was once thought to. I could be wrong or I could be right. However, there is indeed much more action that can be taken to unite the muslim ummah, and that is something no one debates on nor even mentions.
Yes, that was his perogative to write a poem on his thoughts. However, by posting it up on a BB he has opened himself to criticism.
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
I don't think its a slam-dunk that they are "not required".
Its your own conjecture on why they "may" be required and then your own conjecture as to why that reason is no longer relevant. It can all be wrong. No? It may just be that keeping a beard is required for some completely different reason and that reason is valid today as it was valid 1400 years ago. :)
Its fine to criticize his poetic skills. Or an unclean beard. But when we take a step further to disagree with a ruling, we need to have proper backup to support our argument.
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
*It may just be that keeping a beard is required for some completely different reason and that reason is valid today as it was valid 1400 years ago. *
Please provide full documentation and support from the Quran. In this case, I'd even tell you to throw out whatever Hadith you can get as well, as I'm sure that the beard is not a requirement.
But when we take a step further to disagree with a ruling, we need to have proper backup to support our argument.
I agree. My support is that there is a lack of evidence in the Quran - there is no verse that says on MUST wear a beard if one is to be muslim. In order to refute this, you will need to come up with an Ayah that does mandate a beard as a REQUIREMENT.
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
If you completely discount every thing other than Quran, then you will have to ignore many other aspects of Islam too, that are not explicitly stated in the Quran. Thats another discussion. And you are not the only one, as there are people in every age who professed to follow only Quran. And there are many on this forum who will stand with you to say “Show me in the Quran”. Then this discussion is moot. 
However, if you trust authentic ahadeeth as a source of shariah, then a more complete picture emerges on the issue. Click here](http://63.175.194.25/index.php?search_text_box_dsn4=1189&lv=browse&formtrans=dgn%3D4|&ln=eng&ds=qa&sensitivity=2&searchquestions=1&searchtitles=1&searchanswers=1&searchsources=1&pg=result&offset=0&msubmit=1) to see the evidence.
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
Yes of course - so I said earlier in my post that the prophet did indeed ask for others to keep beards so to look different from the Kaafir.
But as Fraudz has brought up, Saddam Hussein ( a killer of many, so I wouldn't really classify the cheeseball as muslim) and Castro, and many other villains have had beards. The hadith must be taken in context, otherwise they would be law. And nowhere has God given any kind of punishment to those who do not keep beards. Thus, if we were living in a true Islamic state, if someone went out without a beard, they could not possibly be punished or banished, since there is no perscribed punishment.
Hence, the beard is promoted, but it is not mandatory. Only those things are mandatory, which have punishments in this world or after and God has already clearly mentioned in the Quran that He is quite clear about his mandates, such that no one would be able to debate on them.
How long has the debate on beards been going on? You think God forgot to talk about His mandate on beards in the Quran?
That is the mistake we muslims make. I don't think Hadith (all) are false. Some may be shady, and even those are categorized as iffy by scholars. But at the same time, you wont find anything REQUIRED by Islam to be only in the Hadith and not in the Quran.
So, in summation, yes having a beard is part of the Islamic tradition. Is it required? NO.
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
May be it’s about time all those ‘aspects’ are taken out of Islam as they are additions. I thought we weren’t allowed to make additions to the book.
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
Just because it is not in Quran, so it is not required? During hajj, people go to Arafat to listen to the sermon. Is it part of Islamic tradition or is it required? Is it mentioned in the Quran? Can you presume to do hajj without attending the sermon at Arafat? This is just an example. And as I said, I am not going to debate on the issue that only Quran is what we should follow. I know there are people out there who are proponents of that approach. I disagree. However, thats a different discussion and if you search this forum, you will find endless repetition of the same arguments.
Back to the topic, I am not proposing that having a beard is farz, as I mentioned in my earlier post, as I don’t believe it to be farz, either. And I am not even going to the aspect of punishment, because that to me is not relevant for this discussion. The Prophet (Peace be upon him) ordered something. Those who believe in that order will follow it. The others will find excuses. EOS.
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
Hey wait! if shaving the beard is against nature why is shaving a mustache ok?
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
See you contradict yourself. On one hand you say that the Prophet ordered it, and then on the other hand you say you're not proposing that having a beard is farz.
Thus, somewhere, there is a tangle which must be sorted out. Either it is farz, or the Prophet was going around ordering things which were not farz (which is he not supposed to do? Even the Quran says to the Prophet to not give out any orders out himself without Divine instruction), or the Prophet never really "ordered" it.
The only scenario that fits well is that he suggested it, but that his words were misconstrued into an "order". An order is required to be followed, and thus it is farz.
There is no way around this subject without an argument over the authenticity of the hadith, over the INTERPRETATION of the hadith, and over the Quran vs. Hadith debate.
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
I am not contradicting anything. I am saying it the way I understand it. For some muslims the confirmed words/orders of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) are enough. For some others, its not. I gave you the example of parts of Hajj. You are required to do it the way Prophet ordered muslims to do (and showed by example). But if you open the Quran and start searching for where does it say that you have to be at Arafat, or Minna or do rummi, you won't find it.
If someone wants to argue "the authenticity of the hadith, over the INTERPRETATION of the hadith, and over the Quran vs. Hadith debate", please go right ahead. I am sure there are plenty of folks here who can indulge you. You asked to bring forward evidence about beard, and in your words, " I'd even tell you to throw out whatever Hadith you can get as well". When I showed it, you said, oh no, there is nothing in Quran, so hadeeth can't be correct. Oh well. Lets not waste any more time. As I said before, it is ordered by the Prophet, in so many words. Those who accept it, more power to them. Those who don't, let them find excuses. To each his/her own. Why prolong a discussion that is not going anywhere?
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
*Those who don't, let them find excuses. *
They're not finding excuses. They're not wanting to entertain any made-up orders over the history of Islam which have led Islam into its downfall. If we only kept things simple to begin with, probably 99% of the mishaps to Islamic civilization would not have happened.
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
Bhai, if you don't want to keep a beard (and it is a bit unlikely in your case), then don't. And you are neither the first one nor the last one who is trying to simplify "your" religion by sticking only to Quran and having not to follow other parts of Islam. Main-stream muslims have always rejected this thought-process. If you search the net, you will find different names for the followers of this ideology (hint: Google "Perwaizis"), so there you go. You don't even have to create a new firqa. Its all right there.
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
The objective of Hajj is given in the Qur’an as an opportunity to unite all mankind and find ways to make this planet a better place to live. It is supposed to be an International Conference far superior to the UN - far superior due to true Justice and Equity. The participants in the Qur’anic (not ritual) Hajj will have Allah’s and not Mullah’s commands in their minds.
Hajj should be without shirk like kissing the blackstone, sacrificing a goat, or throwing rocks at the three “Satans”! Of course, no single person can fulfill the sublime Purpose of Hajj. It is meant to be a collective devotion by nations to find ways how to make this planet a better place
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
I am not getting into this discussion. Seems like “beard” is really just the tip of the iceberg, here. Then again, this discussion is nothing new, either.
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
not quite accurate, Prophet (pbuh) had a beard even before he was a muslim and so did other people of arabia that includes jews,christians and pagans. so i really dont know why would you throw a statement like that. you dont know the precise reason so you should say in my opinion or what ever, in MY opinion one reason could be because its hard on nafs . in jannah its said that men wont have beards.
as people of other religions had it too , your point falls flat.
actually Prophet did know that ummah was going to expand and he “still” recommended the beard.
so? media has known to be skewed before.
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
O wise one - your claims have just refuted the hadith that support beards as (I would say recommended, people like Faisal would say mandatory) recommended/mandatory.
And honestly, if you can't figure out how you've done that, I certainly ain't wasting time explaining it to you. Its just way too obvious.
Re: Keep a beard ?? Why shud I ???
faisal once more you are the person who is making a sensible point hopefully people grasp it.