Re: Karachi LB elections results
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Re: Karachi LB elections results
Got to give this to you, I agree with this. PTI due to many different reasons has evoked a multitude of responses from people in the past and indeed, you are correct in saying if it was someone from PTI, everyone would have been quick to lash out.
PTI faces more criticism because this is the party which has promised a new slogan, a new hope, a new tradition and a new system, so obviously there will be more flashlight on them and when it deviates from its sated policies, obviously its opponents will start criticizing. no one reallly cares what PPP and PMLN do strategically or ideologically because those parties are considered part of rotten established political culture. thx
Re: Karachi LB elections results
Pti wiped out from pindi also where they won big last elections. The way things are going, Pmln will easily win the next elections. The situation for PPP and Pti is so dire now that there are talks of an alliance between the two parties. All talk and no walk has landed Pti to where it is now. Lies and more lies have exposed the party and imran's politics. Pindi has got a metro like it or hate it, same is the case with multan. What could Pti or PPP given those people?
how come no one is talking about Imran khan's decision to shake hand with JI from an ideological standpoint? if i am a PTI supporter, i would be appalled.
or should we now think that PTI shares JI ideology on war on terrorism and sharia system? JI has soft corner for terrorist organizations and for TTP. Not so long ago, its amir munawar hassan refused to say kind words for pakistan army's shaheed commandos but called bait ullah mahsood a shaheed. so is now mahsood a new hero of PTI as well? JI wants to implement sharia system in the whole country. shd we assume that this is what IK also wants?
if PTI is an ideological party which will bring change to the system, then what is its ideology? or is PTI now just like PPP and PMLN who will shake hands with anyone for few seats ? after-all PPP shook hands with PMLQ few years ago for few seats.
shah sahib, you have a soft corner for PTI but unlike many others, you have a sane head on your shoulders as well. kindly help this confused brother of yours. jazak allah
Re: Karachi LB elections results
That would not be a good stance.
In any case, one thing parties should stop talking about is why MQM a bad choice. Pick us because MQM is bad is a stale argument and it is not going to work. Tell people independently what you can do. Can you take care of quota system, can you build more colleges, can you help Karachi become a financial hub like Dubai and Mumbai? Can you promise more Jobs? And more importantly do you have a solid plan for that, or just empty words? Trying to win brownie points by sugar coating Karchiites (like you yourself said) is not going to work either.
If I want my kids to be secure, am I going elect Mohallay ka Dada as my chowkidar, or a weak police officer? That is what is happening in Karachi. You keep challenging their choice of selecting MQM with the hope that they will pick you instead, is pure immaturity.
If 30 years of open violence and destruction and ACTIONS of MQM can not make Karachiites realise that MQM is BAD for them, then no amount of words can PTI prove that PTI GOOD for them. You only try a new product when you have had enough of the ones you are using! Do you see?
Yes PTI did say that Karachi and Dubai can become a financial hub if violence is eliminated. Is it not true? PTI said Karachi can go back to old glory if police is depoliticised? Is it not true? Issues like clean water, china cutting, garbage dump, ghost employees, bad state of infrastructure were all discussed. Ab isse ziyada PTI or kya kahe that will get people's attention? If issues like militancy/non militancy aren't enough to stir an awakening..... then what can you do? PTI tou aaj ayi he, but people of Karachi had been okay for not having a second option for 30 years, and PTI's mistake for over hyping their chances.
At one hand you want super active Rangers put their lives at risk, state to invest so much capital in the operation, Rangers to perform all police duties going around cleaning MQM's sheet, but on the other hand MQM's public support many folds? Back to square one, evil Punjabi army going after Muhajirs = more support and strength for MQM. Rampant violence & killings = locals wants a remedy (often from the same evil Punjabi army).
You vote for MQM but at the same time but at same time want the state to also provide paramilitary forces to keep them in order? You cannot have Rangers and MQM in one city, let's see how this effects Karachi operation.
The thing is people make million excuses for MQM, yeh nahi tou wo, wo nahi tou yeh.....even IK speeches stopped criticising Altaf Hussain like before, after the way it caused massive offence to people of Karachi. Ab agar locals think ke PTI MQM or Altaf Hussain se bhi zeyada batreeen party he, then it is what it is.
The only reason why you are seeing such strong reaction to MQM's defeat: a) Imran's over the top glorification of Karachi population. B) For past few years, outside of Karachi, there was a perception that vast majority of Karachiites do not support MQM, they are sick and tired of it, and will root out/eliminate the party if violent hold is weakened. There was a genuine break from the perception of Karachiites = MQM supporters.
Re: Karachi LB elections results
TLK,
You have actually effectively proved my point that if PTI needs to penetrate into Sindh, it will have to exploit at least one type of victim complex to gain popular support, and you have said quota system! :)
Everyone knows MQM has done jack squat to end quota system despite remaining in power, but they still know that anyone who might try to sell the quota system chooran will get the attention and the support.
Re: Karachi LB elections results
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PTI faces more criticism because this is the party which has promised a new slogan, a new hope, a new tradition and a new system, so obviously there will be more flashlight on them and when it deviates from its sated policies, obviously its opponents will start criticizing. no one reallly cares what PPP and PMLN do strategically or ideologically because those parties are considered part of rotten established political culture. thx
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Frankly speaking, a bit of BS.
There is only a small minority in Pakistan that believes that PTI is a good and relevant option as proven by their electoral success in 2013 (let's minus the rigging for a sec) and in 2015. PTI is not even considered a 'lesser evil' that's how bad they are when compare to gloriously perfect MQM, PMLN, PPP. That's totally agreed.
But if PTI is not a new hope, new tradition and new system, then it rightly gets rejected by electorate. This is how democracy works. But will the anti PTI warriors explain that one what basis parties like PMLN and MQM and PPP get elected even when they don't propose none of those promises?
This idea of "no one cares" reflects that moral decay and intellectual rot of the society where as long as you are evil and admit you are evil, anything to you is forgiven. But God forbid if you try to be something different, fail by your own standards to reach a perfection.
The classic example of* bad se zeyada badnaam bura. *
Re: Karachi LB elections results
how come no one is talking about Imran khan's decision to shake hand with JI from an ideological standpoint? if i am a PTI supporter, i would be appalled.
or should we now think that PTI shares JI ideology on war on terrorism and sharia system? JI has soft corner for terrorist organizations and for TTP. Not so long ago, its amir munawar hassan refused to say kind words for pakistan army's shaheed commandos but called bait ullah mahsood a shaheed. so is now mahsood a new hero of PTI as well? JI wants to implement sharia system in the whole country. shd we assume that this is what IK also wants?
if PTI is an ideological party which will bring change to the system, then what is its ideology? or is PTI now just like PPP and PMLN who will shake hands with anyone for few seats ? after-all PPP shook hands with PMLQ few years ago for few seats.
shah sahib, you have a soft corner for PTI but unlike many others, you have a sane head on your shoulders as well. kindly help this confused brother of yours. jazak allah
sab chalta hai... They will talk against feudal , but select feudals as their candidates (being electable).
They will talk for freeing people from the chains of slavery, but will accept Peer Makhdooms as their leaders.
They will not accept themselves as Taliban apologists and right winger fundamentalists, but give full liberty to their coalition partners to make amendments in academic syllabus for promoting intolerance in society.
I just remember discussions on this forum, where one member very rightly tagged PTI as good looking JI.
Re: Karachi LB elections results
One thing is proven, if PTI wants to avoid getting all over the top 'moral high ground' scrutiny and finally have a chance at power then it needs to indulge in open ended money laundering of billion of rupees, commit couple of hundred openly admitted murders, give hefty bribes to make your way into bureaucracy, steal from treasury like there's no tomorrow. Do all these things and openly admit them with pride, and then the usual trolls will leave you alone because there is simply not an "ideology" in Pakistan that opposes all these things.
There is no such thing is perfect political party, but there are countless examples of successful criminal political mafias.
Re: Karachi LB elections results
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sab chalta hai... *They will talk against feudal , but select feudals as their candidates (being electable).
*
*They will talk for absolving people from the chains of slavery, but will accept Peer Makhdooms as their leaders. *
They will not accept themselves as Taliban apologists and right winger fundamentalists, but give full liberty to their coalition partners to make amendments in academic syllabus for promoting intolerance in society.
I just remember discussions on this forum, where one member very rightly tagged PTI as good looking JI.
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MQM - the party who cries about waderas had been in bed with them for 30 years, but still gets elected with beyond majority and there are people who defend, support and justify their violent rule?
The so called anti Taliban, secular and liberal parties PPP and MQM had proven to be logistic partners of Taliban with their massive role terror funding and sheltering of terrorists and target killings.
Don't be a hypocrite, what about MQM's alliances with JUI-F? What about PPP's posturing to Mullah Fazlu throughout the history? No wonder liberals and seculars got such a bad name in the country. They are spitted at because they are nothing but bunch of hypocrites and biggest apologists for corruption.
Re: Karachi LB elections results
*if PTI is an ideological party which will bring change to the system, then what is its ideology? or is PTI now just like PPP and PMLN who will shake hands with anyone for few seats ? after-all PPP shook hands with PMLQ few years ago for few seats. * shah sahib, you have a soft corner for PTI but unlike many others, you have a sane head on your shoulders as well. kindly help this confused brother of yours. jazak allah
I expect Ali to come up with clear answer to this unlike others who follow the philosophy 'falan gand khata hai to hum bhi khaen ge. PPP does this.. MQM did that. PMLN doing this.. so we also got right to do so. Ik hi gutter ke keeRe ho to saRo uss gutter main. Don't talk about rubbish change.
Re: Karachi LB elections results
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I expect Ali to come up with clear answer to this unlike others who follow the philosophy 'falan gand khata hai to hum bhi khaen ge. PPP does this.. MQM did that. PMLN doing this.. so we also got right to do so. Ik hi gutter ke keeRe ho to saRo uss gutter main. Don't talk about rubbish change.
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Change can just be a change, whether big or small. Even A represent only less than 50% of a change from B, it is still a change. Change is not absolute.
Ali is not a hopeless hypocrite arm chair ghissi pitti jooain nikalane wala critic, he has done enough political engagement to know democracy is all about choosing a lesser evil, and keeping political competition/opposition alive.
Re: Karachi LB elections results
Ali Bhai mubarak ho. As far as I remember once you were engaged in wrist slitting and throwing toys from pram. Now you are termed as having enough political engagement.
Badalta hai rung aasman kaise kaise 
Kitne paise diye hain muk muka ke liye jo’on wali aunties se 
Re: Karachi LB elections results
Army ki popularity ka rona roney wale, martial law ko kosney waley, jamhooriyat key naare lagane wale political competition tak nahi encourage kar sakte. This is the democracy.
They have the nerve to cry when people get frustrated and ask for Boots to be the second option in waiting, but will never play a role to encourage, promote a political third option, and at least the idea of 'lesser evil' to make Pakistan democracy a competitive and a robust process. Either they are happy with criminals, or they want prophets to come and put their sheet in order.
Re: Karachi LB elections results
You are the one who called him a “sane” head and I am beyond confident that Ali in his “sane” head moment is not the type to demonise. discourage and dismiss political competition, and strong opposition, and encourage suppression of the prospect of strong third option party for sake of democratic process.
If Ali comes back and says no to all that, and starts acting like a jooain nikalne wali aunty, then oh well…
Re: Karachi LB elections results
PTI faces more criticism because this is the party which has promised a new slogan, a new hope, a new tradition and a new system, so obviously there will be more flashlight on them and when it deviates from its sated policies, obviously its opponents will start criticizing. no one reallly cares what PPP and PMLN do strategically or ideologically because those parties are considered part of rotten established political culture. thx
I agree with that. PTI and IK started off with their anti-establishment, anti-status quo slogans and promises about being different etc. In the end what happened? PTI has become exactly like the party they said it never would be. PTI and the party members are no different than any run off the mill political party and politicians, because PTI is full of free radicals that join whatever party they think will benefit them at present. IK is no different than anyone else, with his character and personality assassinations, with his over the top VIP protocol and insane campaigning.
Sometimes a new system doesn't work, sometimes you have to improve or better an already established system; before you can implement a new one. IK will never understand that, or maybe if he will, by that time it'll be too late. He is committing a political suicide.
Re: Karachi LB elections results
I really don't understand why people who loathe PTI get so hurt and excited and start rona pitna when PTI loses? Why bash a party which is thoroughly defeated in your locality and has absolutely no chance of a come back? If MQM, PPP, and PMLN had been elected from your end, then say Alhamdullaih 100xs and seek accountability from these parties, for once.
PTI is not perfect, hence defeated. PPP, MQM, PMLN perfect hence victorious. Simple as that.
If PTI crumbles under pressure, and gets dissolved by next elections then this it what it is. PTI wasn't around in 70s, 80, and 90s, 000s, but Allahmdulliah these parties were and the politics still went ahead.
Re: Karachi LB elections results
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Army ki popularity ka rona roney wale, martial law ko kosney waley, jamhooriyat key naare lagane wale political competition tak nahi encourage kar sakte. This is the democracy.
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says who? A PTian, whose leader was drunk or whatever while uttering 'MQM ko vote dene walon ko sharm aani chahiye'.
Re: Karachi LB elections results
I don't know about people, but I can speak for myself. PTI was so sure that they lost cos of 'dhandli', in the main elections. Every defeat of PTI to another political party in the by-elections, cantonment elections, local body elections, just means that what they were harping on about was massively wrong. IK lived in this fantasy that PTI had overwhelming support on the ground in 2013 and he was sure to win. This is what people go on about these days, he thought that social media support translates to actual votes, when in reality it wasn't the case and this has been proved many times. Fine even if we calculate irregularities and give some room for fluctuations, the result would still not favour PTI. All these elections in which PTI has lost, after the main elections, just proves how far-fetched IK's vision was of what the truth is. He seemed to be living in a lie, fed by his aids and supporters that he will win. He didn't.
Re: Karachi LB elections results
I agree with that. PTI and IK started off with their anti-establishment, anti-status quo slogans and promises about being different etc. In the end what happened? PTI has become exactly like the party they said it never would be. PTI and the party members are no different than any run off the mill political party and politicians, because PTI is full of free radicals that join whatever party they think will benefit them at present. IK is no different than anyone else, with his character and personality assassinations, with his over the top VIP protocol and insane campaigning.
Sometimes a new system doesn't work, sometimes you have to improve or better already established system; before you can implement a new one. IK will never understand that, or maybe if he will, by that time it'll be too late. He is committing a political suicide.
Let me tell you one thing, I live in the Western country, and there is no such thing as a perfect politician. Even in Western system, you get all sorts. Trust me. You get decent politicians, mediocre politicians, and useless politicians, but what you don't have in West in CRIMINAL politicians.
The idea is not to fill Pakistan political structure with prophetic perfection type politicians (this is ridiculous - impossible), the aim should be to **DECRIMINALISE, **the political system of Pakistan which is lot achievable.
Trust me, you will keep getting run off the mill type politician in every political structure.
People who say PTI is just as bad as other parties do nothing but trivalise and desensitised crimes of other parties for 30 years. No Imran has no laundered billions of rupees of Pakistani nation, he has no murdered thousands of people, he is not running Pakistan from Dubai and London, his kids haven't built business empires in foreign countries on looted wealth.
PTI with all its flaws, weakness and strengths is a reflection of Pakistan. It will still have all the good and the bad the society offers.
Re: Karachi LB elections results
says who? A PTian, whose leader was drunk or whatever while uttering 'MQM ko vote dene walon ko sharm aani chahiye'.
Just like the face of diverse Karachi - all educated, middle class, tolerant, liberal Waseem Akhtar said Imran Khan Pathan truck driver from Mianwali Karachi me kya kar raha he. Or MQM leaders who called people of entire province Taliban apologists for electing PTI? Or saying vote for PTI is a vote against Muhajir race?
Or your ever so perfect "Islamic scholar" born again MQM supporter Dr Amir Liaqat who called Naz Baloch a 'nachne wali' on live TV?
If likes of Waseem Akhar and Ali Zaidi and Amir Liaqat are the best to come out of Karachi, then what can I do. They all suit each other, and speak each other's language.