Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

[Sara516]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

@UZ

Hareem it can go both ways if you are modern which most people are, you will try to give justification oh we are religious by heart you shouldn' t be judging us and if you are religious and NAAOOZBILLAH you listened to music all the community will go after you, oh look at that crazy mullah or mullani singing, may be ALLAH can forgive them also. Once I went to this restaurant and this guy came with tasbeeh in his hand reciting some zikr and after a while he was drinking wine what can you say? He was not maulvi just modern with tasbeeh and wine ;)

Why were you at a restaurant that served alcohol/wine to begin wtih?

[hareem01]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

@Enigmatic

Yes that's true and I know there are conditions too but an obvious wrong should be gently conveyed at least once. The least one could do.

*He who amongst you sees something abominable should modify it with the help of his hand( activism, organization, movement ); and if he has not strength enough to do it, then he should do it with his tongue( by seaking out against it ), and if he has not strength enough to do it, (even) then he should (abhor it) from his heart( by always disliking what is evil or harmful ), and that is the least of faith(Muslim: Book 1 : Hadith 79 & 81).

*

I think it's talking about preventing crimes and not about someone like the Iranian police who stop women on a street to do their scarf properly.

I'm sure Taliban took this hadith and misinterpreted it.

[bebo]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

@hareem01

And what's wrong in drawing a line at our comfort level as long as you're not doing something openly against Islam?Sorry but you make Islam sound like an impossible to follow religion.

In your mind or interpretation you are not doing something against the religion but to some one else you sure are crossing that line. Take your own example.....few years ago you had a very different interpretation on some of the religious stuff but now your comfort level has changed so has your lines..

[hareem01]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

@bebo

In your mind or interpretation you are not doing something against the religion but to some one else you sure are crossing that line. Take your own example…few years ago you had a very different interpretation on some of the religious stuff but now your comfort level has changed so has your lines..

And you think it’s solely my own interpretation?

I still follow the opinion of scholars. And btw, what did I say that goes openly against Islamic teachings?

[Enigmatic]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

@hareem01

I think it's talking about preventing crimes and not about someone like the Iranian police who stop women on a street to do their scarf properly.

I'm sure Taliban took this hadith and misinterpreted it.

Again hijab/headscarf or beard isn't something that needs to be *rudely *inquired about. We can never judge somebody's imaan just because they wear or don't wear some sort of a religious symbol. But if somebody we are acquainted with is doing drugs or is an alcoholic..we should just try and convey that what he is doing *is *wrong.

My problem is with the way one conveys it. And it could make a hell of a difference the way these things are told or talked about. The manner, circumstances, words chosen ..they all have a great impact.

But at the end of the day I'd rather say what I feel is wrong (if i have the obvious conviction and evidence) just once in a way that it doesnt hurt the next person than being quiet completely.

[hareem01]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

^yeah that's fine then.

[bebo]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

@hareem01

And you think it’s solely my own interpretation? I still follow the opinion of scholars. And btw, what did I say that goes openly against Islamic teachings?

Your interpretation or your scholars does not matter to people or scholars who have a different interpretation bibi. Like I said, you think your version is superior or the scholars yo follow know better than people who think beard and Parda is part of Islam. This thread and many in religion section is a bright and shining example of this attitude!!!Abb Mano yah na manoo tumhari marzi…

[hareem01]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

@bebo

Your interpretation or your scholars does not matter to people or scholars who have a different interpretation bibi. Like I said, you think your version is superior or the scholars yo follow know better than people who think beard and Parda is part of Islam. This thread and many in religion section is a bright and shining example of this attitude!!!Abb Mano yah na manoo tumhari marzi...

Tumeh samajh nahi aa rahi tou iss main mera kya kasoor hai bibi?

Whether beard and parda is part of Islam or not is a different debate. In fact, I never denied beard's status as a sunnah or hijab verses in Quran.

I'm merely pointing out at the intolerance. Did I say that women shouldn't be allowed to wear a scarf or burqa?

And I'm not particularly talking about Pakistani people, I'm talking about muslims in West who come from all types of backgrounds.

Don't know what you're on about.

[hareem01]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

I'm not necessarily talking about scholars and their opinions, just the behaviour of muslims in general. I think I was wrong in past for being harsh and strict on others, but I was young and immature too back then, I never bothered to study other scholars or other opinions.

Besides, you have such an extreme situations where you'd see hijabis smoking and drunk people doing tasbih, it's obvious that you want to find out the criteria of being a normal muslim,** muslims who are sincere and well educated and serving the community deserve a chance to be treated as a religious person too and they should be representing muslims too regardless of their outward look, whether they're covering their heads or not or they have a beard or not.
**

[bebo]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

Right you won't get what I am talking about!!!

[princessjojo]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

Hijab (scarf/hair covering) merely a symbol or an outlook? It's a command which must be followed just like the 5 daily prayers. It's not equivalent to saffron attire or cross-pendants which might more aptly be described as symbols.

ps: I don't wear a head scarf neither am I religious, just giving an Islamic text-based Quran-in-light-of-Hadith perspective.

[Jafri]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

This is true. One guy Muzlaam might only have a beard for no shave November and a Muzlaam girl could wear hijab outside, but has Allah jaanay kaisi kaisi tasweerein on Facebook.

[Xtron]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

You know I personally think wearing hijab or beard doesn't make someone pious. It is our taqwa and iman which counts most.

[UZ]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

@Sara516

Why were you at a restaurant that served alcohol/wine to begin wtih?

All american restaurants serve wine And some desi too kahaan tak bachein ab to Pak mein bhi wine serve hoti hai

[diwana]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

All these questions are to make people doubt enough, to stop them having beard or wear hijaab.

[queer]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

do you have a beard, diwana je?

[diwana]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

@queer

do you have a beard, diwana je?

;)

[hareem01]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

@princessjojo

Hijab (scarf/hair covering) merely a symbol or an outlook? It’s a command which must be followed just like the 5 daily prayers. It’s not equivalent to saffron attire or cross-pendants which might more aptly be described as symbols.

ps: I don’t wear a head scarf neither am I religious, just giving an Islamic text-based Quran-in-light-of-Hadith perspective.

Command or not…a headscarf shouldn’t be a measure for someone’s piety, but if you are talking about overall hijab in character then it’s important to have that in both men and women as a part of good character.

How difficult is this to understand?

You can’t compare a headscarf to prayer…prayer is a pillar of Islam, scarf isn’t. And please don’t mistake hijab with Syrian style headscarf.

[psyah]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

Peace All and hareem01

Khimar and Beard - let's call these outward symbols of Islam. (For the time being)

However we can say that khimar can be worn by non-Muslims and beard can be toted by non-Muslims ... then some have argued the way you wear the khimar and tote the beard makes it Islamic. Ok on that basis some people argue that covering hairline is the Islamic way of wearing khimar and having fist length beard with trimmed moustache is the Islamic way of keeping a beard.
But then we have differences of opinion. Some people say khimar was being used to "cover the bosoms" as per Qur'an which means the head covering is less important than the hairline to be covered. Does it therefore mean the hairline need not be covered - well according to hadith the hairline should be covered - but then is that the position of basic requirement or is that a higher level - one of extra effort? Would the conditions of the society affect the effort needed to observe "hijab" as per hadith? Same goes with the beard ... some believe having some facial hair is enough, some believe having a fist length is enough.

After this can we then say those who do these things are doing it for the sake of obedience or for the sake of showing off?

Some have argued to protect oneself from "riya" (hidden shirk by doing good to appear noble in the eyes of others) - it is better to avoid outward forms of piety. Some say it is better to downplay ones outward piety and to be increasingly more pious as your private circle comes closer in.

On the other hand by hiding ones level of piety does it mean they should act immorally? Does it mean if a man holding a bottle of wine is a sinner - even if you have not seen him drink from it? Does it mean a drunk man is a sinner even if you have not seen how he became drunk? No ... a man holding a bottle of wine may be throwing it away after taking it from someone else, he may be doing it to reduce his ego, but will make sure he never drinks it, but makes people think he is ... but at the same time he will not glamorise it to make people think it is the right thing to do ... he may be drunk through a state of dzikr not the liquor ... or he may be recovering from anesthetic or he could have been jumped by evil men who forced him to drink ...

Is piety being good in the eyes of others or is piety thinking good about others?

Does knowledge make us pious? Or is knowledge a burden that if we have it and do not follow it our accountability is greater than the those who do not have it and do not follow it?

Does it mean we should not seek knowledge? No ... We should seek knowledge because the intent of gaining and the effort is greater than the achievement. Should we have an opinion if we have no knowledge?

But if we have an opinion after gaining knowledge of a matter are we being sincere to that opinion?

But even if we are sincere to that opinion does it mean that we are necessarily guided to the "better" understanding?

It may be that someone has better character and does not have a beard, but does it mean his choice for not having a beard is a result of better understanding? Sincerity does not have to be linked to understanding correctly ... It is possible for a person to have a false understanding but be completely sincere. It may be even be possible for someone to find it easy to be kind yet find it difficult to have a beard, whilst for others it may be hard to be kind and easy to have a beard ... as long as both believe it is better to be kind and it is better to follow a Sunnah then this is what matters ...

**Orientation

**Our orientation (direction our heart faces) should be to submit even if we are not submitting or in that submitted state ... this is the meaning of sincerity. Our universal principles should be to do good and only to to submit to what we feel is good. We should learn about what is the criteria to what we should avoid and learn about the criteria to what is prefered ...

It is more important to avoid harm first before we move to positions of preference ... it is more important preserve the image of Islam than to be open representatives of Islam with bad character. It is necessary to "seek" the position of high ideals and greater piety and NOT be content with the basics ... because there is a danger in falling lower than that ...

Within this is the playground of conduct for a Muslim ...

Be strict on oneself and lenient on others ... appoint leaders who are better than you -

• In conduct (ikhlaq)
• In knowledge ('ilm)
• In outwardness (sura)

In that order ... when things are obtained in that order one can be content that "khulus" (sincerity) is present in the other person and their level of piety is of a given amount ... Outwardness without knowledge but with ikhlaq is safe, but they cannot be a leader because they may lack wisdom ... outwardness without ikhlaq but with knowledge may lead but will be unjust to the people their leadership again may lack wisdom in a different way ... Those who have ikhlaq and 'ilm without outwardness may be good people, but it is better to appoint leaders who embody the knowledge they have to protect them from being labelled as hypocritical from an unwise audience.

Being a Muhsin (excellent) person is a set of extremes that are desirable in Islam. All other extremes are undesirable. Being moderate should not be translated to mean playing fast and loose with the requirements ... but it means we should not be quick to judge others, before obtaining the full information. Seek out ways to be merciful and always look for the greater good and if there is no good then to seek out the lesser of two harms.

[hareem01]

Re: Just because you like wearing a religious symbol

@diwana

All these questions are to make people doubt enough, to stop them having beard or wear hijaab.

No. Clean-shaved and scarfless muslims think they can get away with any sort of behaviour because they wouldn’t be questioned coz they don’t look muslims, if we start expecting from them to be as religious as a bearded guy or scarf wali woman then it will stop the stereotypical against bearded and hijabi women.