Re: Jews
we have successful, by the grace of Allah, areas now using the Islamic system. where not only do muslims reside but millions upon millions of hard to keep happy, eager to cause serious harm, non muslim people. both their safety and abundant sustenance has been ongoing.
Can you enlighten me on where the areas are.
Re: Jews
clear the name of Islam to whom?
so what your saying is lets take a step back to come forward?
Clear the name of Islam to the millions of people to whom islam=terrorism. And dont say those are evil people, they just hate islam. They hate the kind of islam that is predominant in most muslim countries.
Currently millions of people dont even want to hear the word muslim ... and you are saying that they should trust muslims !!!
Cleaning up our act is THE right step, not a step back.
Re: Jews
if 'they' are not evil or unjust then why do 'they' hate Islam that is predominant in most muslim countries, what stops you from saying 'i' somewhere? surely this is lacking in the conviction shown by you for the validity of their concerns regarding kind of islam that is predominant in most muslim countries
if you say i with them (shared concern), then i can talk you directly, learn more about each other
if you cannot say 'i' with them, then its something which you doubt needs correcting - imo
Re: Jews
Can you enlighten me on where the areas are.
Shard-- Could you please reply to this...
Re: Jews
if 'they' are not evil or unjust then why do 'they' hate Islam that is predominant in most muslim countries, what stops you from saying 'i' somewhere? surely this is lacking in the conviction shown by you for the validity of their concerns regarding kind of islam that is predominant in most muslim countries
if you say i with them (shared concern), then i can talk you directly, learn more about each other if you cannot say 'i' with them, then its something which you doubt needs correcting - imo
Lets see why I dont hate islam ..... because Islam IS my religion, i.e the true teachings of Islam, not the version of islam that mullahs sell.
Now we can discuss what brand of islam is prevalent in muslim countries.
Islam gives women their rights. Muslim countries take that right away
Islam teaches tolerance of others faiths. Muslim countries promote hatred of other faiths.
Islam teaches no compulsion in religion. Muslim countries punish men for not having foot long beards.
Islam teaches to protect the rights of minorities. Muslim countries love to abuse the rights of minorities.
Islam teaches peace. Mullah brand of islam loves suicide bombings.
Like I said before, actions speak louder than words. You can point out all the good qualities of Islam to non-believers, but the actions of these muslims cover up all these qualities with a pile of rubbish.
Re: Jews
^ 
Re: Jews
salam alaikum
i generally agree with you regarding 'country' leaders, but dont you think we can offer a place of comfortable residence if Islam ruled unopposed? we can, even with the physical body of the same leaders. Allah SWT sent us tawheed, which means not just to believe in HIM but also follow his Legistlation in its entirety (ie tawheed).
Allah SWT said Muslims are the best nation raised up for mankind. this is not applicable to us 'cos we were born into Islam, this is applicable to those who believe in Him, his help, his Messengers and those who live his prescribed way (deen)
lets not be defeatist and give up
I like ur candor. ALLAH said that Muslims are the best nation raised for mankind. In same verse ALLAH has also said that had christians and jews also brought iman than it would have been good for them, and most of them (jews and christians) are** Pervert transgressors.
**In my humble opinion, this is the verse which puts a big question mark on muslims of today. They are the nation in question ALLAH is referring to. If they have the guts to call themselves muslims, than they automatically put a question mark on holy quran. ie either they are really the best nation, as holy quran says, or they are not muslims coz holy quran cant be wrong.
If they are not muslims, than they are worse than jews and christians, most of whom are pervert transgressors. It reminds me a beautiful verse from Iqbal,
**Shor Hai Ki Ho Gaye Duniya Se Musalmaan Nabood
Hum Ye Kahte Hain Ki The Bhi Kahin Muslim Maujood?
Waja Me Tum Nasara Ho To Tamaddum Me Hanood
Ye Musalmaan Hain Jinhe Dekh Kar Sharmaye Yahood.
Yoon To Sayyad Bhi Ho, Mirza Bhi Ho, Afgan Bhi Ho
Tum Sabhi Kuch Ho, Batao To Musalmman Bhi Ho?
**
Re: Jews
I think the thread has lost focus from Jews.
Re: Jews
the bolded word is Al-fasiquna
the actual opening is addressing the Sahaba RA - YOU ARE THE BEST OF (ummatin) PEOPLE RAISED FOR THE MANKIND,
its a statement of fact
the Prophetic hadiths explain our current plight and they do refer to us as muslims, some of us on haq and some astray.
the Prophet SAW told us the best of his followers are of his generation, then the next then the next. thus graduated piety, so we are not the direct nation being refered to in the ayat. we take scraps from the association, hope to emulate, of those refered in the ayat. you might hear: ‘not worth the dust on the Sahabas feet’
Narrated Abdullah: The Prophet said, “The best people are those living in my generation, and then those who will follow them, and then those who will follow the latter. Then there will come some people who will bear witness before taking oaths, and take oaths before bearing witness.”…
“Very soon other nations will invite each other and fall upon you to attack and destroy you, just like people do when inviting others (for food) and fall upon a dish of food.”The Sahaba-e-Kiram asked Rasoolullah (may peace and blessings be upon him), “O Rasoolullah! Will this happen because we will be lesser in number at that time?” “No.” Rasoolullah (may peace and blessings be upon him) answered. “You will be great in number but, you will be like froth upon the waves. Allah Ta’aala will remove, from the hearts of your enemies, your fear and terror, and He shall fill your hearts with Wahn”. The Sahaba-e-Kiram Radiallahu Ta’aala Anhum then asked “What is “Wahn”?” “Love of the world and hatred for death.”
inshallah this gives you a balanced prospective on the matter
talking about the Quran being wrong is something exclusive to the shia. the shia encourage a hypocrites view on the Quran (you have been told to recite as we do, 2000 narrations of its distortion and not one, from hujjats, of its perfection), so if you do associate with them then you wont ever be far from this conclusion
the verse and hadiths clarify if we are to differ, like for example on which generation is the best of this ummat, for those who believe. so those who believe do admit the Sahaba are the best generation of believers. of course those who disbelieve will have a hard time stomaching the verse, which is soo complimentary to the Sahaba
i have been reading this master piece, on jumah which was introduced into shism around 400 years ago!, from one of your eminent sites:
This (Verse) has been distorted O Jaber!
Imam sws said to Jabir this verse has again been distorted! This Ayath was descended like this:
This Ayath descended like this
in speech shown here: When drunkards get access to pulpits - YouTube
at the moment they say there is no Imam and no Quran, basically no sure religion, they are to just recite like us as to fulfill taqiyah requirements of their own religion. i say this is a form of the worst people, worse then jews, christians and the other kuffar
the faults of the muslims(sunni) are just that faults. we call to Islam but we are suffering from wahn
the disbelievers and the hypocrites will for us to deny the truth, and as long as we do not deny the truth, rather we proclaim the truth we can remain hopeful of the mercy of Allah SWT
the poem by Iqbal is appreciable by all, since it doesnt clarify what exactly he is calling to, so everyone has something to cling to from it. if he is talking about muslims suffering from ‘love of dunya’ then i agree with his call
Re: Jews
Lets see why I dont hate islam ..... because Islam IS my religion, i.e the true teachings of Islam, not the version of islam that mullahs sell. Now we can discuss what brand of islam is prevalent in muslim countries. Islam gives women their rights. Muslim countries take that right away Islam teaches tolerance of others faiths. Muslim countries promote hatred of other faiths. Islam teaches no compulsion in religion. Muslim countries punish men for not having foot long beards. Islam teaches to protect the rights of minorities. Muslim countries love to abuse the rights of minorities. Islam teaches peace. Mullah brand of islam loves suicide bombings.
Like I said before, actions speak louder than words. You can point out all the good qualities of Islam to non-believers, but the actions of these muslims cover up all these qualities with a pile of rubbish.
look no westerner has come here to tell us that we should be clearing the name of islam from their eyes, you have. based on what you said earlier i think it is reasonable to say you and them are collectively 'we'. since 'i' and 'them' makes 'we'
so you think we (Muslims following Quran and Sunnah, with no room for imposter kazzab (liars), or mahdis of those who take disbelievers as awliya) are what exactly?
Allah swt has told us the disbelievers want to make us compromise on our deen. you are working with them, and you are one of them
they like your religion because it is not Islam. the disbelievers have never liked Islam and never will
you have taken them as taghoot
Re: Jews
But what is with it that we should not accept them as a nation n all ?
The issue is that their nation is made in a land that was seized by force out of Muslim control in 1918, and from which in 1948 they expelled the majority of the Muslim population.
Re: Jews
yeah but don't you think its their land, I mean their ancestors ( Hazrat Ibrahim, Hazrat Yaqoob A.S etc ) lived there, so its their land actually.
Re: Jews
That’s a weak argument. Hazrat Ibrahim was also the ancestor of the Arabs, so by your own logic the land belonged to Arabs.
The argument about the land belonging to them historically is a weak one - according to it, any population could lay full claim to areas they used to live in. The Scotland and Wales should be able to claim all of England, as the Anglo-Saxon English only moved in 1500 years ago, displacing the native Celtic tribes to Scotland and Wales. Native Americans should be able to claim all of the USA, expelling whites, blacks, asians and hispanics. Australia’s aboriginals should be allowed to lay claim to all of Australia, etc.
The key issue is that the Jews did not live in Palestine for so long that they can’t even identify which particular part of the land they owned. No Jew can pinpoint the property his ancestors owned before being expelled by the Romans. How could a collection of them then return and claim it all?
The Palestinians can. Not only that, but genetically, Palestinians and Jews are so similar that the evidence is clear that they are descended from the same stock, historically living in the same area. As the native inhabitants, with the only legally standing claims to specific areas of lands, no one had the right to expel them.
And since 80% of the expelled Palestinians were Muslim, it’s not surprising that the rest of the Muslim peoples stand with them against their oppressors.
Re: Jews
look no westerner has come here to tell us that we should be clearing the name of islam from their eyes, you have.
the disbelievers have never liked Islam and never will
An absolute mode of denial. You dont need to have a phd to realize how Islam is perceived in the West nowadays.
Again with your broken record of "disbelievers will never like islam". Even ordinary people who previously had a neutral view of islam are now holding negative opinion about islam.
Asking the West to love "Your Islam" is like asking a person to see light after you've painted the bulb in black color.
And since you keep insisting in knowing my personal opinion, here it is. I hate the islam that today's mullah sell/preach. I hate the islamic govt who abuse islam to gain political benefits. I hate the implementation of so-called sharia laws that have nothing to do with true Islam.
Re: Jews
They were not arabs, Allah created a new nation from Hazrat Ibrahim AS which is called bani israil , so they were not arabs. They used to speak tibrani language or hebrew may be.
I don't know what happened many many years after that but from the start these 12 tribes got this area populated, it is their territory which God promised them, they are like living their from the very start or should I say they are the ones who started it.
Re: Jews
You are confused.
Arab versus Bani Israel?
Two are not mutually exclusive.
Jews can claim as a nation on being bani Israel. But you cannot say they could not be Arabs.
This is the reason why we see Jews alienating and separating themselves from Arabs and it is flawed argument.
I thought you asked specific questions in your first post.
But now please do not troll.
Re: Jews
Thanks for ur kind response. U have given me a lot of new things to think over. I will soon get back to U after clearing the points raised by U.
Thanks again.
Re: Jews
An absolute mode of denial. You dont need to have a phd to realize how Islam is perceived in the West nowadays. Again with your broken record of "disbelievers will never like islam". Even ordinary people who previously had a neutral view of islam are now holding negative opinion about islam. Asking the West to love "Your Islam" is like asking a person to see light after you've painted the bulb in black color.
where have you got this idea that i am asking the west to 'love Islam'? i think you'll find thats something that you are incorrectly projecting. frankly i am happy with the west despising Islam, and the believers. i believe this a compliment to the believers. not same are believers and disbelievers
earlier in the thread i said something along the lines of 'others' blocking our paths. lets be clear here, i meant even if 'others' are blocking our paths, the path should be cleared. like the early muslims took land upto spain with the sword, i admire this.
by 'others' i did actually mean pseudo sects like yours who are active in blocking islam (you believe in removing religion from state, and fighting for the kuffar/country of residence etc) and yes i do not mind your opposition either. on this i say 'get out of the way', whilst welcoming you to stay in the way. so the path can be cleared. i think a good look at your direction from a pious (read extreme for kafir understanding) leader would be enough to send you under the table with teeth clattering
thats what i think
[quote]
And since you keep insisting in knowing my personal opinion, here it is.
[/quote]
well i have my reasons for asking you these questions very slowly. one of them is that i not familiar with your beliefs and religion as much as i'd like. what i have learnt from you is that you have a much more specific dislike for Islam, where-as the majority in the west have a general dislike for religion. you can see this in their alterations of their texts and enforced space for gays and women into the religions over which they have influence
[quote]
I hate the islam that today's mullah sell/preach.
[/quote]
i think your rabbis have fed you a diet of oestrogen, you hate the believers for it
what you have done is encapsulated some kufr sentiments from 100 years ago, and made a cult out of it. shabash
Re: Jews
**
O you who believe! Take not for Auliya' (protectors or helpers or friends) disbelievers instead of believers. Do you wish to offer Allah a manifest proof against yourselves?
**
Re: Jews
we have successful, by the grace of Allah, areas now using the Islamic system. where not only do muslims reside but millions upon millions of hard to keep happy, eager to cause serious harm, non muslim people. both their safety and abundant sustenance has been ongoing. the success may or may not last forever. generally for other areas the system is not a very saleable commodity unless people have a desire to submit to the laws of Allah SWT because materialistically its not guaranteed to be wealthy
Hey Shardmanny, could you point these areas out? StormRaiser asked you twice, yet those seems to be the only posts that you have ignored.