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*Originally posted by armughal: *
believe and say what u may, Islamic belief is that Jesus did not die, so thats how we (i.e. muslims) will always see it....
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Nice reply good to hear that. Let me tell you something intresting. Jews believed that Elehja was never dead and was raised to heaven. He was suppose to appear before Jesus. So uptill today they never accepted Jesus, and still waiting for Elehja because according to jews he was taken up to heaven.....
I dont see any much difference of your saying and Jews saying.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Destino: *
**Shroud of Jesus*
Now there was a good and righteous man named Joseph, who, though a member of the council, had not agreed to their plan and action. He came from the Jewish town of Arimathea, and he was waiting expectantly for the kingdom of God. This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then he took it down, wrapped it in a linen cloth, and laid it in a rock-hewn tomb where no one had ever been laid. Luke 23:50-53. See also Matthew 27:57-60; Mark 15:42-46; and John 19:38-42.
A burial cloth, called shroud of Turin, is still preserved thought to belong to Jesus and research has shown that the man wrapped in the cloth was still alive..
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Yes, I've seen a documentary about that cloth, long time ago on Discovery Channel here. Many experiments have been done on that cloth. But they could never proove how old it really is, if it really dates back from the time of Jesus (pbuh). They couldn't accurately trace it back.
Yes, only God is the judge of who is more “Islamic”, but he has given us rules. He has told us through Quran what a good muslim is supposed to believe, and in it we can read numerous times, that prophet Muhammed (pbuh) is indeed the last messenger of Allah.
If you even say, that you believe everything written in Quran, but one thing, if you even reject one fact written in Quran, you are not a muslim. Not a bad one, not a good one, you are simply not a muslim if you don’t believe EVERYTHING written in Quran.
keep in mind this belief is only present day muslim. Not the muslims of earlier age.
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I disagree with that, muslims believe what is written in Quran. The Quran of today, is no different from the quran of earlier age. All information of Islam, we get from Quran, that is true information, from Quran and Ahaddith. Through the centuries, the Quran has never changed, not one letter. What muslims of today believe, that is, the true muslims anyway, is the same belief of muslims of earlier age.
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I disagree with that, muslims believe what is written in Quran. The Quran of today, is no different from the quran of earlier age. All information of Islam, we get from Quran, that is true information, from Quran and Ahaddith. Through the centuries, the Quran has never changed, not one letter. What muslims of today believe, that is, the true muslims anyway, is the same belief of muslims of earlier age.
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I agree about what true muslim believe. But another question arises if Quran is same the teaching are same then why so many sects. The simple reason is, even though everything is same but people have diverted the teaching like chirtians did to there religion.
I agree about what true muslim believe. But another question arises if Quran is same the teaching are same then why so many sects. The simple reason is, even though everything is same but people have diverted the teaching like chirtians did to there religion.
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True, but every sect (well, except for the sect of Mirza, but then again, they have produced their own different version of Quran...) agrees that Muhammad (pbuh) is the last messenger of Allah. they might have differences in how to do salaat and other rites, but when it is clearly written in the Quran that there will be no other messenger after Mohammed (pbuh) because he had PERFECTED the religion, none of the sects can deny it. (which is probably why sect of Mirza had to produce a different changed version of Quran, to proove their own points... )
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*Originally posted by sadya: *
If you even say, that you believe everything written in Quran, but one thing, if you even reject one fact written in Quran, you are not a muslim. Not a bad one, not a good one, you are simply not a muslim if you don't believe EVERYTHING written in Quran.
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Holy Qur'an doesn't prescribe stoning as a punishment.. i think Sunnis believe in it.. Non Muslim??
No beard lengths mentioned in the qur'an.. Sunnis think you have to have one.. Non Muslim?
Qur'an doesn't talk about the return of any Mehdi.. Sunnis are waiting for such a person.... Non Muslim??
Yes, I've seen a documentary about that cloth, long time ago on Discovery Channel here. Many experiments have been done on that cloth. But they could never proove how old it really is, if it really dates back from the time of Jesus (pbuh). They couldn't accurately trace it back.
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Thats just another piece of evidence and it supports the historical facts. Carbon dating can give an error of many hundred years, and as yet there is no other technique which can be employed to find the correct dates.
Still,even if the shroud proves to be a fake the fact remains Jesus did experience the cross, he was taken down alive.. and he survived..
True, but every sect (well, except for the sect of Mirza, but then again, they have produced their own different version of Quran...) agrees that Muhammad (pbuh) is the last messenger of Allah. they might have differences in how to do salaat and other rites, but when it is clearly written in the Quran that there will be no other messenger after Mohammed (pbuh) because he had PERFECTED the religion, none of the sects can deny it. (which is probably why sect of Mirza had to produce a different changed version of Quran, to proove their own points... )
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Evidence please.. Do not generalize the discussion like ignorant people and bring some facts.. some examples of "our own different version of Quran"...
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*Originally posted by Destino: *
was saint paul really one of the disciples??
Wasen't he the one attributing divinity to christ??
When was he born??
and you hold his account of events valid??
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Paul wasn't one of original disciples. Don't know when he was born. Paul wasn't the originator of the idea of Christ's divinity. Yes, I hold his account valid. He lived and talked with many people that knew Jesus while he was preaching, also Jesus appeared to him on the road to Damascus.
Jesus never stayed three days in his grave. Read the fifth part of the article please.
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Jews and Romans always count the present day when stating time. For example:
If you say you will arrive in four days, you mean today and on the third day from today you will arrive. If Jesus died on the Friday and got up on Sunday, they would say it was three days - Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
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*Originally posted by sadya: *
Yes, I've seen a documentary about that cloth, long time ago on Discovery Channel here. Many experiments have been done on that cloth. But they could never proove how old it really is, if it really dates back from the time of Jesus (pbuh). They couldn't accurately trace it back.
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Paul wasn't one of original disciples. Don't know when he was born. Paul wasn't the originator of the idea of Christ's divinity. Yes, I hold his account valid. He lived and talked with many people that knew Jesus while he was preaching, also Jesus appeared to him on the road to Damascus.
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The fact is that most revered of the disciples of Jesus, Paul, the oringinator of trinity, was born long after Jesus.. people speculate that it was 50 or more years after the death of jesus, or even more.. No on e can be sure..
I can't believe that Paul ever met Jesus.. or had any divine guidence.. look at his views.. What he says about women.. His harshness.. he was exact opposit of the loving person of Jesus..
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*Originally posted by Destino: *
Still,even if the shroud proves to be a fake the fact remains Jesus did experience the cross, he was taken down alive.. and he survived..
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And as you so aptly put it:
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Evidence please..
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well you can be happy to your own beliefs too… you don’t hold exclusive rights to the ‘Islam’ label .. let God be the judge of who’s more ‘Islamic’.