Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

Hold on bro hold on .see urself and pay attention on it.clearly this ayaat telling tht they will recognize as a momin women if they cover themselves.App is ayaat ke zariye aisa parda na karwaye jo khawateen ko ek mazaq hi bana day first of all they were mushraqeen and kafirs too.Pahlay app apni nazar ka parda karoo phir khawateen ko Burqa pahna na.Quran main yea bhi tu hai Mumin marad apni nazrain neechay rakha karain app kitny karty hai.

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

Quran is for all times so your explanation is just a lame excuse
second today as well most of the women are being harassed by hypcorates

[quote]

Encyclopedia of Islam by Macmillan reference (a peer-reviewed source) states:

The term hijab or veil is not used in the Qur'an to refer to an article of clothing for women or men, rather it referes to a spatial curtain that divides or provides privacy. The Qur'an instructs the male believers (Muslims) to talk to wives of Muhammad behind a hijab. This hijab was the responsibility of the men and not the wives of Muhammad. However, in later Muslim societies this instruction specific to the wives of Muhammad was generalized, leading to the segragation of the Muslim men and women. The modesty in Qur'an concerns both men's and women's gaze, gait, garments, and genitalia. The clothings for women involves khumūr over the necklines and jilbab (cloaks) in public so that they maybe identified and not harmed. Guidelines for covering of the entire body except for the hands, the feet, and the face, are found in texts of fiqh and hadith that are developed later.

[/quote]

what a lame excuse
you should learn islam properly by some islamic scholar rather then learn islam from christens who try to blame islam on their own false thinking

[quote]

Similarly John Esposito from George town university (Islamic scholar) and Bloom and Blair from Yale University also believe that Hijab was adapted atleast two hundred years after prophet Muhammad.

[/quote]

based on imagination
bahi perda Hijab was also in the period of Prophet Muhammad

[quote]

I don't believe that either above scholars are infallible and nor is Ghamidi. But he has got a point. And as true seekers of knowledge, we should not close our brains. But I would also strongly recommend to see renaissance.com.pk/novislaw2y2.html and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab . Thank you!
[/quote]

all your quotes are just false based on imagination of non muslims and Ghamidi is also one of them who want to corrupt islam based on his imagination

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

Alhumdulliah i am muslim and i believe that and act on this
and yes i know it refere befor hijab of women in Sora Noor Verse number 30 and then for women in verse number 31
mushraqeen and kafir do not do hijab , it was for muslims only

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

[quote=“usmanshahid”]
Sura Al Azab chapter 33 verse number 59
O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.\QUOTE]

Actually, what you are saying is taken out of context. Please read with all the verses, as per 33:58-61

Those who harass believing men and believing women unjustifiably shall bear the guilt of slander and a grievous sin. O Prophet! Enjoin your wives, your daughters, and the wives of true believers to draw their cloaks over them [when they go out]. That is more proper, so that they may be distinguished [from slave women] and not be harassed. God is ever forgiving and merciful. If the hypocrites and those who have the ailment [of jealousy] in their hearts and the scandal mongers of Madinah do not desist, We will rouse you against them, and their days in that city will be numbered. Cursed be they; wherever found, they would be seized and put to death.

The verse is showing its purpose itself, and I’ve bolded it. And consequences of those people who wouldn’t follow such command is to put to death as per above verse. Hence, it is the punishment of hypocrates, and not for women who will not follow. Secondly, this verse shows very clearly from its very context that it was for a particular situation.

[quote=“usmanshahid”]
Suran Al Ahzab verse number 53
O you who believe! do not enter the houses of the Prophet unless permission is given to you for a meal, not waiting for its cooking being finished-- but when you are invited, enter, and when you have taken the food, then disperse-- not seeking to listen to talk; surely this gives the Prophet trouble, but he forbears from you, and Allah does not forbear from the truth And when you ask of them any goods, ask of them from behind a curtain; this is purer for your hearts and (for) their hearts; and it does not behove you that you should give trouble to the Messenger of Allah, nor that you should marry his wives after him ever; surely this is grievous in the sight of Allah.\QUOTE]

You can see that above verses are related to the house hold of prophet Muhammad (not my original research, Qur’an itself says that). My brother, Qur’an is not a collection of quotes. Qur’an is a book, everything should be read in its context. I am still looking for a better answer to what I raised before.

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

The debate shifting to purdah, i think it is better be done by wearing loose clothes and may be covering the head properly with a big Chaddar. Totally denying it is wrong and imposing it is wrong as well. Let our women decide it for themselves, they are not inferior in "Aql" that they cannot decide what is better for them.

My question about status of ijma stays there?

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

pure childish and totaly based on imagination
for foolish people like you we are ordered by Allah to say
Salam a likum and just leave as you will remain on your foolish thoughts and never understand

بہائی آپ دنیا مین سب سے سمجھدار ائے ھو اور آج تک کوئی ایسا نھیں ایا جس کو قران سمچھ ایا ھو صرف آپ ھی ھیں جس کو سمجھ اگیا ھے اور پوری دنیا کے مسلمان پاگل ھیں

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

I agree that we all are bound to follow the verses of Surah Noor ( Qur’an , 24:27-31). Which states:

Believers! Enter not the houses other than your own until you have introduced yourselves and wished peace to those in them. That is best for you that you may be heedful. If you find no one in the house, enter not until permission is given to you. If you are asked to go back, go back, for it is purer for you. Allah has knowledge of all which you do. It is no sin for you to enter non-residential places in which there is benefit for you. And Allah has knowledge of what you reveal and what you conceal. [O Prophet!] tell believing men to restrain their eyes and guard their private parts [if there are women present in these houses]. That is purer for them. And Allah is well aware of what you do. And tell the believing women to restrain their eyes and to guard their private parts and to display of their ornaments only those [which are worn on limbs] which are normally revealed and to draw their coverings over their bosoms. They should not reveal their ornaments to anyone save their husbands or their fathers or their husbands’ fathers or their sons or their husbands’ sons or their brothers or their brothers’ sons or their sisters’ sons or other women of acquaintance or their slaves or the subservient male servants who are not attracted to women or children who have no awareness of the hidden aspects of women. They should [also] not stamp their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. Believers turn to Allah in repentance that you may prosper.

These laws are to be observed by all of us, me and you! The question of ijma is very simple. Sunni sect works on ijma of scholars (called “infalliable Sunni ijma”). It is a defacto ijma developed over period of time. Although, if you read the books of four imam, they never declare themselves infalliable rather you find them humble and always declaring that they can make mistakes. But Sunni practitioners make their ijma infallible and insist on it. Shia on the other hand believe that Aql is the basic of law. Ghamidi disagrees with both of them. He believes ijma of Ummah to be followable and human intelligence should only be used to learn God’s laws in His book, not to use it make your own laws.

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

That is interesting, than who declared that Ijma is a necessary part of Islam?

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

this was the normal routine in Hazoor PBUH time
l

for referece and example look at here

Shahi Bukhari
Volume 1, Book 11, Number 578:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
When the Muslims arrived at Medina, they used to assemble for the prayer, and used to guess the time for it. During those days, the practice of Adhan for the prayers had not been introduced yet. Once they discussed this problem regarding the call for prayer. Some people suggested the use of a bell like the Christians, others proposed a trumpet like the horn used by the Jews, but 'Umar was the first to suggest that a man should call (the people) for the prayer; so Allah's Apostle ordered Bilal to get up and pronounce the Adhan for prayers

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tell me how Azan came to islam , isn't that through ijma of sahaba and Hazoor PBUH
thoes who reject ijma should look at this

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

i am talking about Ijma of Imams, not prophet and sahabas, please see the posts above and then comment.

Can you explain the hadith where Muaz bin Jabbal was asked by prohet how will he make decisions, he replied in priority, Quran, Hadith & Sunnah.

also please understand which ijma i am talking about. i am talking of the principle which sunnnis follows that Ijma of the four imams on any issue is binding and cannot be reconsidered for ijtehad.

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

no one coming up, i am asking the question on two forums and no one answering.

Mind it i am talking about Ijma of four Imams as being a necessary and unchangebale part of Islam which supercedes Ijtehad. not Ijma of Sahabas.

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

The practice of Athan actually reached us through perpetual adherence of whole Muslim nation and consensus (ijma) of Sahaba. Hence, your assertion of ijma of scholars is irrelevant.

Sorry for the delayed response! I don’t believe that I ever took oath in my life that I will follow x or y scholar in my life rather Qur’an only binds us to follow three authorities. 1-God (Qur’an) 2-Prophet (Sunnah, tradition of prophet Abraham (as) which were instituted by Prophet Muhammad (sws) which came to us through perpetual adherence of whole Ummah) 3-Leader of Muslim government (Ameer)

Hence, no Muslim should feel obliged to follow any scholar rather he/she should consider all scholars as teachers and always strive to follow basic sources i.e. Qur’an and Sunnah rather than following some defacto ijma (Sunni) or dejure ijma (Shia).

As I stated earlier, it is a defacto ijma (Existing in fact whether with lawful authority or not) developed over period of time. It can be compared with a culture of a land, which is also subject to evolution. On the other hand, Sharia (Divine law) never changes. It was the same 1400 years ago and it is still the same which includes Qur’an and Sunnah. Cheers!

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

...

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

Thanx Landaleav

My doubts cleared. I think this is a rational approach. Our oath is to proclaim that Allah is one and Muhammad is the last messenger. No alleigance to any Imam. This is like clergy of Christians that you follow vatican or orthodox.

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

The Last Messenger of Allah established a system of life in which He used to rule or judge people according to the Book revealed to him [5:48-49, 4:105, 6:114]. And this was not new only to him. In fact, all the previous Messengers of Allah also established systems of life during their time whereby they ruled or judged according to the Books revealed to them [5:44-47, 2:213]. Indeed, any who does not rule or judge according to Allah’s Revelation is Kaafir [5:44], Zalim [5:45] and Fasiq [5:47], according to the Quran. The principle of ruling or judging by the Book is the foundation of an Islamic System. No system can be called Islamic unless all the judgments and rulings therein are according to the Book, Al-Quran, the last of the Revealed Books that is the Watcher over all the old Scriptures and guards the Truth in them [5:48].

Al-Hukm or the Judgment or the Rule or the Command belongs to none but Allah alone [6:57, 6:62, 12:40, 12:67, 28:70, 28:80, 40:12, 42:10]. He does not take anyone as partner in His Hukm [18:26]. He is Khair-ul-Hakimeen [7:87, 10:109, 12:80] and Ahkam-ul-Hakimeen [11:45, 95:8]. In an Islamic System, all the so-called rulers or judges are obligated to rule and judge as per Allah’s Rule and Judgment. Sunnah or the Way of the Prophet [s.a.] is not part of Al-Hukm, since Allah does not take any partners in His Hukm [18:26]. However, in Sunnah of the Prophet [s.a.], guidance may be sought for ways to implement Al-Hukm, or for by-laws based upon Al-Hukm. But the ways to implement or enforce Al-Hukm as well as by-laws based upon it, are not as unchangeable as is Al-Hukm itself. The ways and by-laws may be altered according to the suitability of time and circumstances but Al-Hukm itself cannot be changed in any circumstances.

The obedience to Allah [Aatee-u-Allah] is the basis of an Islamic System. But Allah is Invisible. He comprehends all vision but no vision comprehends Him [6:103, 7:143]. He does not come face to face with people to give them His Laws and Commands. All of His Commands for the people are in the Book revealed by Him. Obedience to Allah means conformity to His Laws or abidance by His Commands which are in His Revealed Book, Al-Quran. His Commands or Laws do not change like the whim of a despot or caprice of a king. No one can change His Laws. Even, He Himself does not change His Laws, although He is all powerful to do so [10:64, 30:30, 33:62, 35:43, 48:23, 6:34, 6:115, 18:27].

Allah’s Laws and Commands, in the Quran, cannot implement or enforce themselves upon people, on their own. Moreover, each individual may interpret these Laws and Commands in his own way and abide by them according to his own right. So, there is a need for one Central Authority and his obedience [Aatee-ur-Rasool]. The first Central Authority was Muhammad [a.s.], the Messenger of Allah. Hence, obedience to the Messenger was also necessary, which was, in effect the obedience to Allah by abidance by His Book as interpreted and enforced by the Central Authority [4:80].

Muhammad [a.s.] was mortal and could not live forever [3:144]. But this did not mean the end of the Islamic System. The Central Authority, after his death, would transfer from him to his Khalifa, the Successor. Moreover, as the expanse of the Islamic System will increase, it would become impossible for the single human Authority to be present at all places at all times to make judgments, rulings or implement or enforce the Law. There would become a need for sub-authorities or subordinates, hence, the obedience to Ol-il-Amr.

Unless there is one single Islamic Central Authority, the dream of implementing Islam as a System, as an alternative to secular democracy or other systems, can never be realized. Without a Central Authority, Islam may exist, as it is today, like a downgraded ritualistic religion, in which every individual or sect may keep on living on the vacuous wish of pleasing Allah or rendering Him worship in its own way and in its own right but it can never become a truly Islamic System of life to bring forth its promised benefits. And that means the transfer of sovereignty from individual states, as they exist today, to the Central Authority which itself would work under the Ultimate Sovereignty of Allah, i.e. His Book. Moreover, this also means the end of the authority of the Ullema or the Muftis of today and the Imams of the past. The interpretation of the Laws and the formulation of by-laws will be done by the Central Authority alone, within the bounds of the Quran. There will be no sects, no religious or political parties, not even an opposition party or Hizb-e-Ikhtilaf within the Islamic System.

All the affairs shall be decided by mutual consultation, in the light of the Quran. If there is any disagreement among the representatives on any matter, the judgment thereof will be referred to Allah [42:10] i.e. His Book. This referral will be through the sub-authorities or the central authority for the final verdict [4:59], which will make the judgment according to Allah’s Book [5:48].

Derived from two ancient Greek words demos (the people) and kratos (strength), Democracy is a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them. Then, the numerical majority of the elected representatives can make laws, rules or decisions binding on the whole group. While making laws and rules, these elected representatives do not have any objective standards, unprejudiced touchstones, absolute criteria or bounds of any permanent values to take into account. The difference between such a system and the Islamic System is that the law-making in the latter is based upon the objective standards and the absolute criteria given in the Quran and do not go against the Permanent Values enshrined therein.

Before anyone becomes a believer in such a system, He has full choice whether he wants to become a believer or not [18:29]. There is no compulsion whatsoever upon him to become a member of the Muslim community [2:256]. But once he becomes a member of the Muslim community, he is obligated to abide by its Laws. The authority would make sure that he does so. He cannot be left with that he abides by some laws that he likes and violates others that he dislikes. No community, no nation and no country would allow that.

[6:116] And if thou obey most of those on earth, they will lead thee astray from Allah's way. They follow nothing but mere conjecture, and they do nothing but lie.

[5:101] Say, 'The bad and the good are not alike,' even though the abundance of bad may please thee. So be mindful of your duty to Allah, O men of understanding, that you may prosper.

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

Does Ghamidi deny all written above?

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

Well MKF bhai.Ghamdi or any scholar or any imam is all been Bashr.Why accepts the words of Bashar.u should judge urself in the light of Quran.The True revelation which comes from Creator of All Universe.ALlah baymisal hai Allah ka kalaam Baymisaal hai.do research on Quran.

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

He has pervezy thoughts. I do not like this man.

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

I think we are trying to solve too many problems at the same time. We should first try to know what Ghamidi really believes and writes. I would strongly doubt that if a Muslim can disagree with any thing he wrote in "Mizan", which is only Sharia and no fiqh, as it is common to all people. Tell me your self after just having a glimpse into it that is it only Qur'an or Qu'ran and Sunnah together. Ghamidi is such a proponant of Sunnah that he believes that Sunnah shares the same authenticity and authority with Qur'an. He further proves as well. But not like traditional Muslim scholars, who equate hadith to Sunnah. This whole concept of "Sunnah equal to hadith" came from Imam Shafi'i. For example, for Imam Malik, the practice of people of Medina was a better measure to tell what is Sunnah or not rather than Sahih Hadith. Imam Malik removed and criticized some of his sound hadith in "Muwatta" which were against practice of people. Just to finish my talk, have a look at the following saying of prophet Muhammad:

"Nikah" is my sunnah.

If someone says like this:

"Nikah" is my hadith.

The above statement is not only wrong but giving a completely wrong impression. Sunnah is the practice of prophet Muhammad which came to us through perpetual adherence of whole Ummah without any mistake. On the other hand, we can never make sure that hadith is right or wrong as it is collected by people (although great scholars, but still humans) and not transmitted by the whole Ummah.

Please have a glimpse into Ghamidi's writing here at: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizan

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

I m not pervaizi but i like to read Tasanif of Allama Pervaiz.Surely at some stage i dont agree with PErvaiz sahaab but Indeed he was a very intelligent literate person and his knowledge on arabic was marvelous i do belive 2 man in history of pakistan was gr8 arabi daan first 1 is Tamana emadi sahab and second 1 is Pervaiz sahab.I mostly Read the books of Deomandi and Balagh ul quran but i do respect pervaiz sahab more than Anyother scholar.His research was supported by his deep understanding of arabi literature.dont consider me tht i m pervaizi because at a few stages i m againt their thoughts.